God's will, your will, eternity....why our will?

[face2face]

No, it is no coincidence that angels appear as men at times. Because they are appearing to men.

Somehow I get the sense you don't believe angels are in God's image or after His likeness.

Your illogical reasonings are astounding. Something tells me you suffer from oppositional defiance disorder.

Maybe other members here can inform me whether Stranger is of a right mind before I waste any more time here.

F2F

 

[FHII]

I am sure I am on ground where we say, we just can't know here and now. But, something to chew on. And I have no answer.

God gave us a will. And we exercise that will. And we reap the consequences of that will, good or bad.

Just as with Adam and Eve, when our will is in conflict with God's will, we have problems. When Satans will was and is in conflict with God's will, he had and does have problems.

So, why would God give us a will, when only His will will be acknowledged? In other words, throughout eternity, in heaven, my will, and the will of everyone there will always be God's will.

So, how is my will, my will, if it will always be God's will?

Just as eternity is impossible for us to contemplate, to me, my will always being the same as God's will is impossible for me to contemplate. Will individual thinking be allowed?

In other words, what is the purpose of the will when only God's will is allowed?

Stranger

Having not read the 3 pages of responses, and not having a solid Biblical answer known to me, I offer only my musings:

God really has it good. He doesn't seem to have much stress or worries. He got to declare the end from the beginning. He councils with himself so I don't really think anyone in his board of directors disagrees with him... And he's perfect. He also knows all.

We are a bit different. Oh, we have it good, we don't have much to stress about, we didn't declare the end but we know it, he hears us and we hear him,and we are perfected and we know all things.

All that is in the Bible. God said that about us. We just haven't reached that state. Give it time... God's not a liar... He calls things that are not as though they were.

If you are a Christian and can say you haven't spiralled upward.... What are you looking at? Since being a Christian have you not become more spiritual? It may have been slower than you think or faster than you realize.

I am by no means anything close to being a musician. But I did take guitar lessons and understand it takes time to tune your instrument. Great musicians... A matter of seconds. Others, several minutes and we need help. And the great mucicians once did too. God is in tune. His will is in tune. If you are a Christian, you are getting in tune.

So the point is to get our will to match up with his. It won't ever be done by the law, but by following thw joyful sound. Psa 89:15.

 

[face2face]

Having not read the 3 pages of responses, and not having a solid Biblical answer known to me, I offer only my musings:

God really has it good. He doesn't seem to have much stress or worries.

Really!? You can't see a suffering God who is zealous for the love of His wayward children? Labouring day and night with his ministering spirits to get you into His Kingdom? I doubt you would say this if you knew His anguish?

F2F

 

[KBCid]

I have noticed that heresy can usually be traced back to altering the doctrine of the Trinity; it truly is foundational to Christianity.

lol
Is it really?
Tell me what does God state that their image is?

 

[aspen]

lol
Is it really?
Tell me what does God state that their image is?

Read some church history - the core doctrines of most heresis’ are deviations from the Doctrine of the Trinity - its a fact

 

[FHII]

Really!? You can't see a suffering God who is zealous for the love of His wayward children? Labouring day and night with his ministering spirits to get you into His Kingdom? I doubt you would say this if you knew His anguish?

F2F

Do you believe that God has the ability to fix it, and will?

 

[face2face]

Do you believe that God has the ability to fix it, and will?

Doubtless He has the ability and will...but this does not remove His strong feeling toward His children. In fact, if Jesus' warning of Sodom and Lot is fulfilled and the times of Noah are now seen, we can conclude that God's grief at the wickedness of mankind is at similiar levels. His vengence is being stored up and there is only so much He can take until he says "enough", go my Son. All of us will be found sleeping.

 

[Stranger]

Somehow I get the sense you don't believe angels are in God's image or after His likeness.

Your illogical reasonings are astounding. Something tells me you suffer from oppositional defiance disorder.

Maybe other members here can inform me whether Stranger is of a right mind before I waste any more time here.

F2F

You shouldn't have to trust your sense as I distinctly said so in post #38.

Stranger

 

[face2face]

Read some church history - the core doctrines of most heresis’ are deviations from the Doctrine of the Trinity - its a fact

If you read church history you will find the original Gospel was being perverted during the time of the Apostles let alone church & state council meetings 250 years later.
F2F

 

[face2face]

You shouldn't have to trust your sense as I distinctly said so in post #38.

Stranger

Your angels are not in the image of their maker teaching is terrible and it would be surprising if your fellow believers didn't pull you up on it.

 

[aspen]

If you read church history you will find the original Gospel was being perverted during the time of the Apostles let alone church & state council meetings 250 years later.
F2F

Are you an Adventist or JW?

 

[face2face]

Are you an Adventist or JW?

A Christian...are you a Roman Catholic?

 

[aspen]

A Christian...are you a Roman Catholic?

Yes

 

[Stranger]

Your angels are not in the image of their maker teaching is terrible and it would be surprising if your fellow believers didn't pull you up on it.

Man only is created in the image of God. (Heb. 2:16-17) "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren,...."

Stranger

 

[face2face]

Man only is created in the image of God. (Heb. 2:16-17) "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren,...."

Stranger

Firstly, you have quoted a verse with a poor translation.

"For it is clear that he did not come to help (or succour) angels, but the descendants of Abraham.

Angels have divine nature.

The writer is alluding to Jesus being made "flesh and blood" (Hebrews 2:14) born of a woman - earthy in nature who has been raised up out of Adam (second Adam) to save those “children of promise,” and NOT angels (who dont need saving!). In other words, he didn’t come to save angels (or the righteous for that matter) but “the true seed of Abraham,” as per the promises... Genesis 23:18 Isaiah 41:8

God's divine family is Yahweh Elohim, "I will be known through mighty ones"...only One person mightier than His Holy Angels - and its not in NATURE, but in NAME.

Hebrews 1:4

 

[Stranger]

Firstly, you have quoted a verse with a poor translation.

"For it is clear that he did not come to help (or succour) angels, but the descendants of Abraham.

Angels have divine nature.

The writer is alluding to Jesus being made "flesh and blood" (Hebrews 2:14) born of a woman - earthy in nature who has been raised up out of Adam (second Adam) to save those “children of promise,” and NOT angels (who dont need saving!). In other words, he didn’t come to save angels (or the righteous for that matter) but “the true seed of Abraham,” as per the promises... Genesis 23:18 Isaiah 41:8

God's divine family is Yahweh Elohim, "I will be known through mighty ones"...only One person mightier than His Holy Angels - and its not in NATURE, but in NAME.

Hebrews 1:4

Actually I think it is a good translation. The context being a contrast between angels and the seed of Abraham of whom it is said in (2:17) "...it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren...." Meaning Christ was not made like unto angels. And in (Heb. 1:3) we are told that Jesus Christ is the very exact image of God. "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person...."

Man was created in the image of God because the Son would become a man, and Christ is the exact image of God. As opposed to angels who the Son did not help, did not take on their nature. As they were not created in the image of God as man was.

So, angels are not made in God's image.

Stranger

 

[face2face]

Actually I think it is a good translation. The context being a contrast between angels and the seed of Abraham of whom it is said in (2:17) "...it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren...." Meaning Christ was not made like unto angels. And in (Heb. 1:3) we are told that Jesus Christ is the very exact image of God. "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person...."

Man was created in the image of God because the Son would become a man, and Christ is the exact image of God. As opposed to angels who the Son did not help, did not take on their nature. As they were not created in the image of God as man was.

So, angels are not made in God's image.

Stranger

The previous 16 verses are dealing with thoughts taken from Psalms 8:4-6

If Jesus had been an Angel he could not have helped the "children of promise" i.e. those under condemnation.

Why not Stranger?

Note: The translations of this verse vary because of the main verb in the sentence. For example, the King James Version reads, “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.” And the Revised Standard Version says, “For surely it is not with angels that he is concerned but with the descendants of Abraham.”32 The New International Version, on the other hand, translates, “For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.” Bakers Commentary

 

[face2face]

While we are in Hebrews @Stranger its worth making a few connections worthy of mention.

The title "Elohim" is a name bestowed on angels and men.

It is written, 'Worship him, all ye Elohim' (Psalms 97:7). This is quoted by Paul in the Hebrews 1, as a command of the Everlasting Father to the angels, that they should honour the Lord Jesus as His Son.

The connection in Heb 2 quoting Psalms 8:5 'Thou hast made him a little lower than the Elohim'. Paul applies this to Jesus saying, 'We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels' (Hebrews 2:9).

Jesus was inferior to them appox. thirty years, from the birth of the flesh to his resurrection; when he was exalted far above them in rank and dignity, even to the 'right hand of power', which is enthroned in light, where dwells the Majesty in the heavens."

From the above we conclude that when the term Elohim is used in regard to the angels, the word signifies "mighty ones" through whom God manifested Himself.

God does not manifest Himself through divine beings who are made in anothers gods image.

Remember there are no other gods ;)

 

[face2face]

While we are in Hebrews @Stranger
It is written, 'Worship him, all ye Elohim' (Psalms 97:7). This is quoted by Paul in the Hebrews 1, as a command of the Everlasting Father to the angels, that they should honour the Lord Jesus as His Son.

@aspen....This is a mute point Paul is making if Jesus is God.

 

[Stranger]

The previous 16 verses are dealing with thoughts taken from Psalms 8:4-6

If Jesus had been an Angel he could not have helped the "children of promise" i.e. those under condemnation.

Why not Stranger?

Note: The translations of this verse vary because of the main verb in the sentence. For example, the King James Version reads, “For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.” And the Revised Standard Version says, “For surely it is not with angels that he is concerned but with the descendants of Abraham.”32 The New International Version, on the other hand, translates, “For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.” Bakers Commentary

What previous 16 verses are you talking about?

Whose statement is that..."If Jesus had been an Angel he could not have helped the 'children of promise"? If it is mine, where did you get it?

Again, for Heb. (2:16-17) see my explanation in post #56.

Stranger