Gods Standard is...

[marks]

You asked for thoughts Nancy, so here goes, (oy vey, but no fair laughing) :):) LoL

It is true God’s standard is perfection, but why?

May I propose;

Because for the expression of love.

For love to be expressed and received forever, between two or more persons. Perfection is the only ground that can both give and receive such a wonder. Perfection being the highest expression of a thing, and God’s desire was to give the highest expression of every good thing. Therefore perfection in all things is a mandatory necessity. Because God is love and for Him to fully express the love that is He Himself to all for all eternity, perfection is the only ground that could receive such a expression. Without actually exploding into a flame of fire, ( i.e. hell.)

Blessings,

Much love in Christ, Not me

Hi Not me,

Love is the thing, is it not?

:)

I surmise . . . that God, being love, desires in love to give the very best. So He made us to give to. And the very best He can give is Himself. So God made us to give Himself to us in love. And having already given His Son, every other good thing too!

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Or the settling of Dad's will between our siblings?

Hi Willie,

Great example, since I'm in the middle of an inheritance situation. There is a family member who is administering another family member's estate. This person has, let's say, a different approach towards other's assets then, say, I have.

I don't need anything but love to tell me how to proceed. I'll not break the unity of family over money. I'd sooner not have a penny.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

C'mon Mark, do YOU think that YOU will actually achieve perfection while in this earthly body?

Hi Nancy,

Depends on what you mean by "reaching perfection". Maybe the easiest way to answer is using sanctification. When I was born of God, I was born sanctified, that is, a perfect and sinless spirit child of God. Over the course of my life, I'm being sanctified, that is, this spirit child of God is gaining in control over the flesh of the Adamic creation. In the resurrection or transformation, my celestial body will overwhelm my physical body, rendering the corruptible forever and fully sanctified.

Do I think I will have days without sin? Hard to say! I'm not sure I'm even fit to identify every sin I commit. This is, that the sin which lives in my flesh commits.

Clear as mud?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

If we could just see ourselves so often..

Look at the Jewish standard of torah. The rabbis teach that although no one can do all the mitzvot (laws) any effort towards the torah will produce a benefit. For the rabbis...it is NOT all or nothing. (otherwise they would lose all their followers).

So then their standard is a compromise whereby they don't see the failure of keeping all of the laws affecting the whole. We are to do the best we can...and that is good enough. And more is better...but not crucial. (Sound familiar) But we know that failure in one law breaks down the whole law. It is to our own discredit that we don't apply that same principle to ourselves. We can only enter into Christ by forsaking ALL of ourselves. Yet we look for a partial entering in based on SOME effort to follow Christ. Of course some people will say they fully enter Christ with their partial consecration. This makes us worse in our practice than the Jews in their practice. They realize that there is a sliding scale of obedience to the torah...the more the better. The modern church is so far off the rails that is lags behind the rabbis in understanding even in the compromised mindset.

But for the most part we are exactly as they are. We do the same things. We compromise in the very same things, because we don't believe in the miraculous walk of the saint.

If we say we are followers of Christ but deny His power over sin...we are taught by our rabbis (pastors) that it is not all or nothing. We just do the best we can...since any effort is good and will bring us benefits. It's just about rewards they tell us. We can be partially in Christ and partially in the world. And we call this being "saved."

The only difference between the Jewish standard and the modern Christian standard is that for the Jews the benefits are very practical....it is blessings in this life. A good job, health, good children...etc. Whereas for Christians it is seen as something waiting in heaven later. (although there are teachings also concerning health and prosperity in this life too)

But don't be fooled... we are doing the very same thing as the Jews. Why? Because we are all making God fit into our desires and needs.

So imagine the hypocrisy of trying to convert a Jew from a partial obedience to the torah to a partial entering into Christ.

Can you say..."oy vey?!"

 

[Not me]

Hi Not me,

Love is the thing, is it not?

:)

I surmise . . . that God, being love, desires in love to give the very best. So He made us to give to. And the very best He can give is Himself. So God made us to give Himself to us in love. And having already given His Son, every other good thing too!

Much love!
Mark

Wisdom is justified by her children.

God is alive and well and living His life in you, as your wisdom reveals.

Keep pressing into the One Who gave you His heart, when He gave you Jesus.

Blessings

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy,

Depends on what you mean by "reaching perfection". Maybe the easiest way to answer is using sanctification. When I was born of God, I was born sanctified, that is, a perfect and sinless spirit child of God. Over the course of my life, I'm being sanctified, that is, this spirit child of God is gaining in control over the flesh of the Adamic creation. In the resurrection or transformation, my celestial body will overwhelm my physical body, rendering the corruptible forever and fully sanctified.

Do I think I will have days without sin? Hard to say! I'm not sure I'm even fit to identify every sin I commit. This is, that the sin which lives in my flesh commits.

Clear as mud?

Much love!

Hi Mark!
As far as "reaching" perfection, I know that there are no perfect Christians, we sin either through acting, thinking, speaking, doing...
Sanctification to me, is an ongoing thing that when we walk in the Spirit, we will start to naturally 'stop' sinning in certain areas where that sin was with you for so long, is now going away or it has been overcome! Like you said : "Over the course of my life, I'm being sanctified" So, I am NOT saying we can be perfect as He is perfect.
"I'm not sure I'm even fit to identify every sin I commit." IKR??? That is why I ask Him every day to show me my heart...and sometimes I do not like what is there
"Clear as mud?" Hahaha....much clearer than that ♥

 

[Not me]

Oops, double post, chubby fingers.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Mark!
As far as "reaching" perfection, I know that there are no perfect Christians, we sin either through acting, thinking, speaking, doing...

Nancy. it is one thing to lack faith in one's own walk...but another to declare that others can't fulfill what God has clearly commanded.

What does this mean...perfect Christians? We are already made perfect by simply entering into Christ. Mature? of course not.

So what you could say is...although being as pure and spotless as Jesus Himself...there are not many mature in THAT life.
I will always stand against those who make the Christian life about what WE are capable of judging only by the limited power of the flesh.

What is lacking in this time is the testimony of they who walk or have walked in the power of the life to come.

Anyone who has known the depths of Jesus Christ never denies what we can do through Him. We can do ALL things through Christ. That includes walking exactly as Jesus walked...no sin. As He is, so are we in this world.

But this is not the testimony of most of us.

 

[Nancy]

And thank you for your reply Nancy. :)

There is a conundrum you are bringing up. If the kingdom of God is in heaven...how can it be also in us? Well, the doorway or access point to that heavenly realm is in us. Christ in you. But just having that doorway in us doesn't "save" us from this world. We need to go through it.

So even as the whole journey happens physically within us, there are different dimensions accessible to us from within. There is the carnal level that most of will never depart from. What is familiar is also what is comfortable. Even having Christ in us doesn't change that. We need to go to Christ and enter into Him...then we come into a new world...a spiritual realm. We can live from there. But to remain there takes a lot of renewing of the mind...since we are so used to handle our daily affairs ourselves. Seeing through new eyes and new faculties is a challenge for the supremacy of seeing and perceiving as we always have up till then. ...by the power of our carnal senses.

But the kingdom of God is accessible from within. Not something that was always there...but through the indwelling Spirit by Christ.

Who dares to enter into Him?

"Yes, who dares to enter into Him!!!"
I know we are to go to the throne of God boldly, as The Word say's yet, I have a problem doing that...when I approach His throne in prayer, supplication, worship...it is more in an attitude of shame and total unworthiness. I think I have been chalking that attitude up to being "reverent" but, I am not so sure about that. I believe I am erring in that respect. How does one even do that??? Boldly, I mean.
Thanks for the post Epi!
♥

"And thank you for your reply Nancy. :) Yw ♥
There is a conundrum you are bringing up. If the kingdom of God is in heaven...how can it be also in us?
What did Jesus mean when He said the Kingdom of God was within us? Agreed that Christ in us IS the only way to God the Father and His Kingdom. So, all those dimensions we have to dig through, kind of like peeling an onion with lot's of layers. It's the "staying" consistently in the Spirit realm I think you are saying?

 

[Nancy]

If we could just see ourselves so often..

Look at the Jewish standard of torah. The rabbis teach that although no one can do all the mitzvot (laws) any effort towards the torah will produce a benefit. For the rabbis...it is NOT all or nothing. (otherwise they would lose all their followers).

So then their standard is a compromise whereby they don't see the failure of keeping all of the laws affecting the whole. We are to do the best we can...and that is good enough. And more is better...but not crucial. (Sound familiar) But we know that failure in one law breaks down the whole law. It is to our own discredit that we don't apply that same principle to ourselves. We can only enter into Christ by forsaking ALL of ourselves. Yet we look for a partial entering in based on SOME effort to follow Christ. Of course some people will say they fully enter Christ with their partial consecration. This makes us worse in our practice than the Jews in their practice. They realize that there is a sliding scale of obedience to the torah...the more the better. The modern church is so far off the rails that is lags behind the rabbis in understanding even in the compromised mindset.

But for the most part we are exactly as they are. We do the same things. We compromise in the very same things, because we don't believe in the miraculous walk of the saint.

If we say we are followers of Christ but deny His power over sin...we are taught by our rabbis (pastors) that it is not all or nothing. We just do the best we can...since any effort is good and will bring us benefits. It's just about rewards they tell us. We can be partially in Christ and partially in the world. And we call this being "saved."

The only difference between the Jewish standard and the modern Christian standard is that for the Jews the benefits are very practical....it is blessings in this life. A good job, health, good children...etc. Whereas for Christians it is seen as something waiting in heaven later. (although there are teachings also concerning health and prosperity in this life too)

But don't be fooled... we are doing the very same thing as the Jews. Why? Because we are all making God fit into our desires and needs.

So imagine the hypocrisy of trying to convert a Jew from a partial obedience to the torah to a partial entering into Christ.

Can you say..."oy vey?!"

Yes, no different. Human nature is human nature, Jew or Gentile. The only difference I can see is that BC, the Spirit of God worked outside the person, or lit upon a person to do God's will. Christians, are now able to abide in Christ through the power of His Spirit within us, to apply the power over sin in our lives. I can only say that where I am today, as opposed to 3 decades ago (almost), are many miles apart (Praise God!). It has become the 'smaller' things one would think would be overcome first...not so with me. Sins I never even realized were sin still plague me, yet I am getting much better at putting those thoughts and imaginations under the power of Christ..."He who began a good work..." ♥

 

[farouk]

Oops, double post, chubby fingers.

Easily done...:)

 

[Episkopos]

It is one thing to not have the faith to fulfill the commands of the Lord...and quite another to teach others from that lack of faith.

It is better to say...I cannot...but others can....rather than I cannot and others can do no better than me. Humility is better than foolish pride. And we will be judged on this.

Jesus said...
Mat. 5:19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now take a command like...Be perfect as God is perfect.

You may not believe you can enter into Christ to walk like that. Or that such a walk even exists. And that's one thing. But to teach others from that doubt seals the deal against you. So if you have no faith in entering into the perfect walk of Christ...at LEAST don't spread the unbelief around or else you will be working directly against God's will.

Whoever doesn't gather with Jesus...scatters abroad.

 

[Nancy]

Nancy. it is one thing to lack faith in one's own walk...but another to declare that others can't fulfill what God has clearly commanded.

What does this mean...perfect Christians? We are already made perfect by simply entering into Christ. Mature? of course not.

So what you could say is...although being as pure and spotless as Jesus Himself...there are not many mature in THAT life.
I will always stand against those who make the Christian life about what WE are capable of judging only by the limited power of the flesh.

What is lacking in this time is the testimony of they who walk or have walked in the power of the life to come.

Anyone who has known the depths of Jesus Christ never denies what we can do through Him. We can do ALL things through Christ. That includes walking exactly as Jesus walked...no sin. As He is, so are we in this world.

But this is not the testimony of most of us.

"Nancy. it is one thing to lack faith in one's own walk...but another to declare that others can't fulfill what God has clearly commanded."
Well Epi, you may believe you are sinless. You even said in a recent post that we are NOT to emulate Jesus...now, is not being perfect, and spotless doing just that? Emulating Jesus? Yes, I can only speak for myself and probably every single other Christian I know that are NOT perfect in all their ways. You may say that I have weak faith yet I can testify in front of God and everybody here that I KNOW my faith has grown exponentially since the day my eyes were opened. I see perfection in us if we Love as God Loves...not total perfection in our earthly realm. And, of course I could be totally wrong, you could be totally correct and if you are, that means that I am not saved, because I am NOT perfect. I 'strive' for it but...am not there so...maybe Calvinism is right and, it's only a select few who have the ability to live a sinless life. I do not believe that and can never, in this world, see myself as "sinless". We have sin living IN us, like a parasite and we are to always battle it. I do not win every single battle so, does that make me unfaithful, or even unsaved?

 

[Not me]

Easily done...:)

I even have a second excuse if that one won’t get me a free pizza. :

I’m using a iPhone SE, it’s got a it-izy bit-izy screen...... heeeee

Blessings, my fellow laborer in Christ.

Much love in Christ, Not me

 

[marks]

What is lacking in this time is the testimony of they who walk or have walked in the power of the life to come.

I've been choosing to avoid the foolishness of boasting. I think I understand how Paul must have felt.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Pearl]

As Christians we should take the righteous way in the examples you quoted as in all things. Or perhaps you don't agree.

 

[Helen]

it's crap ok, sorry Helen elohim
I said "you are elohim"
Want a skin, then confess just like them!
Wanna hide behind that tree, don't confess
We just don't care, with our hands in the air...

oh no the rhyming pls pls don't get me started
I should way be in bed and i won't get to sleep for hours lol

I think when God checks us out--as if btw--He sees elohim,
unless they are hiding somewhere i tell you what
9So the LORD God called out to the man and said to him, "Where are you?"

Hahaha! Why don't you say what you really think

Nice to see you posting...I've had my sister in law here so not been around much. So I have missed your posts.

We may not always see eye to eye...but it's always good talking to you. :)

We should call this the Sleepless Club, so many of us are here in the wee hours of the night lol

 

[Pearl]

Isn't is odd that whenever someone wants to "prove" we are to follow God's mystic leading instead of His written words... the first thing they direct us to is His "WRITTEN WORDS."

What's wrong with that? Where would you direct them?

 

[amadeus]

Perfection. And who BUT God is perfect? None. Jesus had to be God Himself, as only God is perfect...in ALL His ways. How could any BUT God incarnate atone for our sins? Anything less would not meet His standard. Jesus was/is perfect as God is perfect.
There is no other way ♥ How could any other than God Himself atone for our sin? Our redemption will only be complete through Gods standard...perfection through Him in the person of The Christ.
Thoughts? :)

If no one but God is or has been "perfect", what of this verse?

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

Could it be that what man calls "perfect" differs from what God says "perfect" is?

 

[Helen]

C'mon Mark, do YOU think that YOU will actually achieve perfection while in this earthly body?

We will never "achieve" anything of ourself. Agree.

But we must come to the place of believing that what God says about us is what we are in His eyes. Therefore 'the truth'. Trouble comes when we vacillate between the two. Then the Enemy comes to us and tells us that we will never measure up, never be perfect, and we agree with him.

Whenever I am feeling like a loser I remind myself of Romans 6:11
“Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

We have to take ourself by the scruff of the neck and reckon ourself to be what God SAYS, not what we 'feel'.

Good thread :)