Gods Standard is...

[bbyrd009]

You are perfect just like you are, i guess. And any what we might call "aberrations" in behavior or even "sins" could be

could be viewed in this framework, even though we're looking at a physical model and not a spiritual one, an autist can be a jerk just like an asp, so another conversion is required.

Put another way i am speaking in tongues to an autist-side person and vice versa, and miscommunications without interpreters might cause a fall into what we call "sin" possibly just as much as our individual selfish desires and expectations might. So it's being discovered that many asd xhibit a "symptom" which is misinterpreted as "bad" by us who seek perfect, and that one is then "diagnosed" which in my case would be like "taking way too long to say something that should be obvious" because it is to you, but not to me.

So i might then be put in a loony bin and deemed "retarded" maybe, and i'm young and certainly observe that i don't think "perfectly" according to others, so i accept the diagnoses and stay "retarded" the rest of my life because of the implied prognosis, when i might just as easily have ignored that or even enjoyed a different diagnoses by someone else, who understood "me" better, interpreted differently iow, and went on to a manga cum laude in some discipline or other.

So, a lot of words to say that what is encouraged is what will grow, maybe. Ppl deemed retarded by some, many, might also be encouraged by others who disagree and manifest "not retatarded, just different" quite easily, and we even have case studies for that now.

 

[bbyrd009]

My OP is really pretty simple. Our Gods standard IS perfection...AND since we, humans will NEVER meet that standard, He had to sacrifice Himself (Christ) as there are zero perfect beings BUT God Himself, and if a sacrifice to God is not perfect...it is not accepted.

Imo a problem with that model is that we, humans, are quite possibly perfect just like we are, and we are just getting misdiagnosed and then fed the "wrong" responses by those who disagree with us rather than encouraged by those who can interpret

 

[bbyrd009]

So, if you consider that you have already met "that" standard, iow don't accept that diagnosis, all is forgiven, and you can confess sin just like anyone else on the spectrum, and those who disagree with you can forgive you just like they could anyone else on that spectrum, or not, then we maybe have a model that tails with Scripture better. Requires a change of mind though, we have to "sacrifice ourselves" so to speak. We have to get crucified

 

[bbyrd009]

Now you can believe that Jesus died for your sins, idc, ppl from all over the asd spectrum do, and that model--the asd one--becomes irrelevant then, but we are left with the spiritual analogue, that being that that, your belief, becomes a way to justify yourself rather than crucify yourself, possibly.

And being as how we are mostly all starved for interpreters due to our investment in the world--the cares of the world will cause a response toward "others" in line with how invested in the world we are--this Nehushtan plays a vital role in getting us to a point, but must then be "broken up."

 

[Episkopos]

your belief, becomes a way to justify yourself rather than crucify yourself, possibly.

This part I understood and agree with. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

So iow you can believe Jesus died for your sins until you die, fine with me, but maybe examine what that beliefs provides for you, what has it "given" you? Another belief, that you might go up to heaven after you have died to become an immortal? Aren't you violating those vv now?

Maybe, maybe not, and i sure can't prove that you are, but you will then manifest behaviors and choices today based upon that belief that might easily keep you from Life, more abundantly maybe.

 

[Nancy]

Now you can believe that Jesus died for your sins, idc, ppl from all over the asd spectrum do, and that model--the asd one--becomes irrelevant then, but we are left with the spiritual analogue, that being that that, your belief, becomes a way to justify yourself rather than crucify yourself, possibly.

And being as how we are mostly all starved for interpreters due to our investment in the world--the cares of the world will cause a response toward "others" in line with how invested in the world we are--this Nehushtan plays a vital role in getting us to a point, but must then be "broken up."

Oh Mark...I DO know right from wrong and sin is what I die to each day, so there is no justification going on here, anyhow. Some days it's like walking a tightrope I tell ya! Ha.

 

[Nancy]

could be viewed in this framework, even though we're looking at a physical model and not a spiritual one, an autist can be a jerk just like an asp, so another conversion is required.

Put another way i am speaking in tongues to an autist-side person and vice versa, and miscommunications without interpreters might cause a fall into what we call "sin" possibly just as much as our individual selfish desires and expectations might. So it's being discovered that many asd xhibit a "symptom" which is misinterpreted as "bad" by us who seek perfect, and that one is then "diagnosed" which in my case would be like "taking way too long to say something that should be obvious" because it is to you, but not to me.

So i might then be put in a loony bin and deemed "retarded" maybe, and i'm young and certainly observe that i don't think "perfectly" according to others, so i accept the diagnoses and stay "retarded" the rest of my life because of the implied prognosis, when i might just as easily have ignored that or even enjoyed a different diagnoses by someone else, who understood "me" better, interpreted differently iow, and went on to a manga cum laude in some discipline or other.

So, a lot of words to say that what is encouraged is what will grow, maybe. Ppl deemed retarded by some, many, might also be encouraged by others who disagree and manifest "not retatarded, just different" quite easily, and we even have case studies for that now.

"retarded" <---that word needs to be banished from every dictionary...same as "dis-abled" it diminishes a person, IMO. And, I know of many "dis-abled" people who absolutely HATE that word as, there are still many things they CAN do...of course, pride might fit into that.
I'm surprised you did not do the magna cum laude thing as, you are very intelligent. Gotta run, have a graduation thingy to go to...and it looks like rain Oh well, we will still have a nice time.
later.

 

[bbyrd009]

I know several of you do not believe that Jesus was God incarnate

well, imo He IS the same way you might be, elohim. Pick up your cross and follow. Because the other way Jesus becomes a Get Out of Jail Free card for the "afterlife;" which I don't think, and can even Quote from the H'sM is not the plan, life more abundantly

 

[bbyrd009]

I DO know right from wrong

as far as you are concerned, yes, but prolly not as far as anyone else is concerned?

and sin is what I die to each day

As far as you are concerned, yes...

 

[bbyrd009]

so there is no justification going on here, anyhow

Well, so you say, but i guess there sure is over here!
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

So, we are created perfect, but then our midst is filled with "merchandise," and we "sin" in order to keep getting our merch?

Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities

Thy sanctuaries, not My sanctuaries :)

by the iniquity of thy traffick;

So, what is "thy traffick," besides archaic terminology that might confuse the issue lol, what is being discussed there, what is the object, or you might say subject, @ "traffick?"

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh Mark...I DO know right from wrong and sin is what I die to each day, so there is no justification going on here, anyhow. Some days it's like walking a tightrope I tell ya! Ha.

If we hear and then just confess, we needn't justify and then fall into sin. If we don't hear and then just forgive, we needn't fall into judgement. an example from some observations today,
"i just told you that an hour ago"
"no you didnt, you were talking about putting the thing in the other place."
"no i wasn't, you werent listening."

"put that in its place"
"oh, ok; you told me that an hour ago, i just wasnt listening"

 

[bbyrd009]

If we hear and then just confess, we needn't justify and then fall into sin. If we don't hear and then just forgive, we needn't, um, ya that's all i got. Someone finish that if you beat me to it :)

if we aren't able to hear a certain thing and lack an interpreter in the moment, and forgive rather than pass judgement, "they just obv don't know Right and Wrong as well as me," then we would be less likely to fall into sin, i guess?

but you can't get your way by forgiving i guess, prolly just doesn't work like that?

Would you rather be in the kingdom, or have your way?
Because you prolly can't have both

 

[Pearl]

Hi Mark,
My OP is really pretty simple. Our Gods standard IS perfection...AND since we, humans will NEVER meet that standard, He had to sacrifice Himself (Christ) as there are zero perfect beings BUT God Himself, and if a sacrifice to God is not perfect...it is not accepted. When we enter into Jesus, God sees us as Perfect-only through the lens of Jesus. I know several of you do not believe that Jesus was God incarnate. If He was not then, HOW could he have lived a sinless life and BE our spotless and without blemish PERFECT sacrifice. I never said, and at least don't think I even hinted that a human being will achieve perfection in this world. I know there are differing definitions of "perfect" in the bible, but God is perfect in ALL His ways ♥ As far as walking into the "world" would be like taking a step over the Niagara Gorge! It took me quite some years to "step out of the world"...and I will never look back. I did my share of living as the world does and it has only left a bad taste in my mouth...many have tried to drag me back into it but, they gave up a long time ago, lol. Of course, they don't call me anymore and that is fine...I realized they never really were "friends", just bar acquaintances anyway. So, I don't believe a person can be perfect, in this life...ever ♥

Good post Nancy. And I agree.

 

[Enoch111]

"retarded" <---that word needs to be banished from every dictionary...same as "dis-abled" it diminishes a person, IMO...

Looks like you favor political correctness over factual statements. Political correctness is what is destroying the West. Never wanting to accept the true status of things. Jesus was never politically correct.

 

[Episkopos]

How do you know you are on the narrow way...???

When you are a threat to the religious aspirations of people!

Paul said that he was made to be as filth in this world....treated as our Lord was. Suffering the same indignities for being in Christ.
To live sacrificially is to walk the narrow path. To lay down our lives for the Lord and for others. To be hated for doing what is the good and perfect thing.



1 Cor. 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.


11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;


12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:

13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.

 

[bbyrd009]

"retarded" <---that word needs to be banished from every dictionary...same as "dis-abled" it diminishes a person, IMO. And, I know of many "dis-abled" people who absolutely HATE that word as, there are still many things they CAN do...of course, pride might fit into that.
I'm surprised you did not do the magna cum laude thing as, you are very intelligent. Gotta run, have a graduation thingy to go to...and it looks like rain Oh well, we will still have a nice time.
later.

how apropos : )

whats her name the famous autist lady calming cattle shutes her dad tried to have her committed several times as retarded, and she graduated...magna or summa, forgot. i'd like to have, but cant focus that long without...a more inclusive method of instruction, say? lol lectures and memorizing and memory tests just no

 

[bbyrd009]

When you are a threat to the religious aspirations of people!

ya. any suggestion of change will initially be heard as a challenge to the old (good) way, wherein immortality later is somehow implied.
There is no argument for a belief system that promises only Immortal Later; even if it promises a better life now, for the simple reason that we caNNOT oops serve Two Masters

 

[Episkopos]

ya. any suggestion of change will initially be heard as a challenge to the old (good) way, wherein immortality later is somehow implied.
There is no argument for a belief system that promises only Immortal Later; even if it promises a better life now, for the simple reason that we caNNOT oops serve Two Masters

Very good point. As long as people can live the American dream today...without any disturbance....and still hold out for dying to self later...when we actually die...there's no hatred.

But if one has to choose between Christ and the American dream...well there's gonna be trouble...