God says that God gets what God wants, so why do you claim God is wrong?
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So what makes you unsure ?
Those were your words. I was trying to be helpful by referring you to the word of God as Paul encouraged us to do.
2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The crucifixion was not something Jesus wanted anymore than a mother running onto the freeway to save her wandering child.....even while a B double is barreling down on her.
Death is not something God designed or wants. It is an enemy, an intruder that results from poor choices. It is a consequence, a result of certain choices in a free creation/ universe.
We have little awareness of what it means for the Creator to become as one of his Creation. To identify with the limitations. It is beyond our current capacity to fully grasp the depth of the expression, '.....he humbled himself and became obedient to death......' Philippians 2:8
Death is not something God designed or wants. It is an enemy, an intruder that results from poor choices. It is a consequence, a result of certain choices in a free creation/ universe.
We have little awareness of what it means for the Creator to become as one of his Creation. To identify with the limitations. It is beyond our current capacity to fully grasp the depth of the expression, '.....he humbled himself and became obedient to death......' Philippians 2:8
But I didn’t say I was unsure - so perhaps best if you stick to what someone actually says instead of stating something else and claiming it’s what they said.
Anyway it’s getting late here in the U.K. so I am out of this thread for Some much needed sleep
For some reason I cannot quote - oh I see, many apologies - I stand corrected xx
Yes, it was more a statement to add to a discussion. I believe that I did say that ‘ in the end ‘ God gets what he wants. God desires many things for us, but we mess up, but that doesn’t mean that God cannot bring good out of that - Romans 8:28.
Yes, it was more a statement to add to a discussion. I believe that I did say that ‘ in the end ‘ God gets what he wants. God desires many things for us, but we mess up, but that doesn’t mean that God cannot bring good out of that - Romans 8:28.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Yes, I am saying that. He nevertheless turns the 'impossible' horror to reveal his heart in such a way the whole created order is gob-smacked (Revelation 8:1).....not just mankind but the whole watching Universe/ Multiverse
You know you’re getting older when you can’t actually remember what you have written five mins before ! lol
I believe differently. I believe what God told us in the verses from Isaiah in my OP. I also believe that God is all-powerful and is ALWAYS in control. I believe that everything that has happened and will happen is God's plan. With that said, I am certainly willing to be persuaded otherwise. I go where the scriptures take me.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
One's understanding of scripture will take you to HOW you see it.....ie, your paradigm
We can see the widely differing conclusions people draw on this site.....even while all are reading the same book.
We can see the Jews manipulated and had Jesus murdered by the Romans because of their particular reading of the scriptures.
We can see how Satan twists and uses the word of God to achieve his own malevolent ends.
Yes, that's true.
The Isaiah verses that I shared in my OP say that God gets what God wants, right?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I find it helpful to remember the the OT Prophets had the view that God is responsible for everything that happens, both good and bad. This is clear when we read Isaiah 45:7 'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.'
The Pagans also believed that the gods who created evil needed to be appeased and the gods who created good needed to be flattered. Ultimately the foundation of the Yin/Yang theories.
Jesus clarified these misunderstandings of God in repetitive examples....as did the Apostles.
We still seem to think/believe that God needs appeasing and we still blame him for the disasters that occur even though we have the only eyewitness of God, ie Jesus, telling us with his reality that there is no evil in God.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
you mean to say that you do not believe in Revelation 20:10
The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.Revelation 20:14-15
Death and hell were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
That is something very hard to accept. It is reasonable to say that God does not want death, but how could God not design death when He is the creator of all that is seen and unseen? Is the enemy above God? Who created those enemies? In this case, there must be someone above God, right? But no.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Death is the cessation of Life. Death is the consequence of rejecting Truth. It is not an arbitrary punishment of any sort.
Putting your hand in the flame will surely burn your flesh. Nobody is punishing you. You made a bad choice. Your burnt hand is a consequence of your poor choice.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
Let me back up TS on this topic: God is the creator of all. He is the designer of everything. He knows how you think and what you will think before you think it. So how can a perfect God not know the future? How can God not know that Eve will eat the forbidden fruit? How can God not know that the serpent will enter the Garden of Eden and deceive Eve? When God knows everything, including how to cure incurable cancer—since He created those sicknesses—how can He not know how to cure them? That is impossible. I believe that death was already in the world when it was created. It was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil that was restricted so that man could die. Genesis 3:22-24
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. I am also not blaming God, nor do I blame Him in my heart. I know this, but that does not mean I know everything. I had some sort of enlightenment, probably last last month, when I read the book of Job.
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