God didn't always exist but he changed

[JBO]

I thought the physical universe was the referent here. What, besides God, does the bible say existed prior to "the beginning" mentioned in Genesis 1:1?

Angels perhaps? The bible does not give us very much information about anything prior to creation of the universe. But it does suggest that angels witnessed the creation.

 

[RedFan]

Angels perhaps? The bible does not give us very much information about anything prior to creation of the universe. But it does suggest that angels witnessed the creation.

I think Job 38:4-7 is the source here, correct?

 

[darkspeed6]

That is not what the bible says in Genesis. We are told only of the time that this water-covered world was restored.

It says all things were created in that time. It described stars being created...that's more than earth being made. Sounds more like a universe being created.

God was creating the major foundations of the universe in those days. Once those days ended, he WASNT creating the major foundations of the universe. That's change.

 

[RedFan]

It says all things were created in that time. It described stars being created...that's more than earth being made. Sounds more like a universe being created.

God was creating the major foundations of the universe in those days. Once those days ended, he WASNT creating the major foundations of the universe. That's change.

It's creating change. Doesn't mean HE changed when that creating actvity ceased.

 

[darkspeed6]

It's creating change. Doesn't mean HE changed when that creating actvity ceased.

If I was creating a video game, then I stopped doing that, I must've changed to stop working on creating it. You seriously misunderstand what change is

If god when creating major foundations is the exact same as god when not creating major foundations, then why are those two god doing different things? Two things that are exactly the same thing can't be doing different things at the same time. What you are doing defines what you are...two gods that r doing different things means they r different gods

 

[Stumpmaster]

If God has not always existed, then who - or what - brought Him into existence?

No-one-No-thing, that's why He's God.

 

[Stumpmaster]

If god always existed, he would have been doing nothing for an infinite past. That's out of character for god to do because doing nothing is pointless, and god doesn't do pointless things to do. Also, it's not possible to do nothing for infinity. An infinite past of nothing can't lead to a future of doing something. If a chair sat in an empty room and was never moved from its position, it would never end up in a different position. If god sat and did nothing for an infinite past, then what happened in that past that made him change his mind later to decide to create?

And if god doesn't change, then why did he change his mind to decide to create after an infinite past of doing nothing? He wasn't creating, but then later he was creating. That means God changed.

See my signature below:

All that is knowable is always known by God. It is impossible for nothing to exist because if it did then it would be something.

 

[RedFan]

See my signature below:

It is impossible for nothing to exist because if it did then it would be something.

That depends on the sense in which you are using "nothing" here. For instance:





This statement will be true or false depending on whether “Nothing” refers to the word itself or to the word’s meaning. If the word itself is the referent, the statement is true (because, as we see, there it is, the word “Nothing” written in stone). If the meaning of the word is the referent, the statement is false (because, as we see, several words are written in stone).

Then there is the meaning of the entire phrase to consider. In context, “written in stone” is shorthand for “unalterable.” The phrase simply asserts the prevalence of changeability, i.e., declares that nothing in the universe is immutable.

 

[Stumpmaster]

That depends on the sense in which you are using "nothing" here. For instance:


View attachment 44112


This statement will be true or false depending on whether “Nothing” refers to the word itself or to the word’s meaning. If the word itself is the referent, the statement is true (because, as we see, there it is, the word “Nothing” written in stone). If the meaning of the word is the referent, the statement is false (because, as we see, several words are written in stone).

Then there is the meaning of the entire phrase to consider. In context, “written in stone” is shorthand for “unalterable.” The phrase simply asserts the prevalence of changeability, i.e., declares that nothing in the universe is immutable.

Yes, if everything was non-existent who would know?

 

[Spyder]

It says all things were created in that time. It described stars being created...that's more than earth being made. Sounds more like a universe being created.

God was creating the major foundations of the universe in those days. Once those days ended, he WASNT creating the major foundations of the universe. That's change.

Well, what I read is that there was no light on Earth which Yahweh provided BEFORE the heavens were revealed. We should not necessarily believe that "let the" means instant existence but can mean "let lights appear." What we are not told is how Earth became dark and water covered. Usually, we try to see it from our limited view and call it science - which puts us instantly in conflict with science. I don't think that is the best way to understand Genesis.

 

[Adrift]

If god always existed, he would have been doing nothing for an infinite past. That's out of character for god to do because doing nothing is pointless, and god doesn't do pointless things to do. Also, it's not possible to do nothing for infinity. An infinite past of nothing can't lead to a future of doing something. If a chair sat in an empty room and was never moved from its position, it would never end up in a different position. If god sat and did nothing for an infinite past, then what happened in that past that made him change his mind later to decide to create?

And if god doesn't change, then why did he change his mind to decide to create after an infinite past of doing nothing? He wasn't creating, but then later he was creating. That means God changed.

Suggesting to know what God was/is doing or not is the epitome of theological arrogance. First, we do not know that this is the "only" thing that God was doing when he created the universe. Our entire known universe could be a small speck on a dog's eyelash in some other dimension. God is both omniscient and omnipotent. He may have created billions of universes before, or while, he started on this one. Your premise of "change" is interesting. Your implying that God could never play chess because he would have to change!

 

[Niblo]

No-one-No-thing, that's why He's God.

That was my point. He is the uncreated cause of all things.

 

[PanInVietnam]

God doesnt change. logically God doesnt need to... human changes all the time

 

[Matthias]

God doesnt change. logically God doesnt need to... human changes all the time

God isn’t a human person. What is your response to the God who doesn’t change?

 

[PanInVietnam]

what response to what thing/matter? i am lost to your question. taking for example: we play to King's (or emperor/gov) law and i dont think the king will change the rules to suit us 'commoner' , we just have to follow or face consequences of failure to do so

 

[Matthias]

what response to what thing/matter? i am lost to your question. taking for example: we play to King's (or emperor/gov) law and i dont think the king will change the rules to suit us 'commoner' , we just have to follow or face consequences of failure to do so

The God of Israel is the great king; the king above all other kings. There are consequences for following or not following him.

 

[PanInVietnam]

please kindly state clearly what is to follow and what's not for this israel God?

 

[Matthias]

please kindly state clearly what is to follow and what's not for this israel God?

The teaching and preaching of his son, Jesus.

 

[PanInVietnam]

wait a moment, i dont think i read about God has any family members in the book of genesis. if i missed it, please show me at which chapter? i think you said god is unique (alone?) in the other thread? are we talking about the same god (the 2 vietnamese version of Mr. J or israel god?)

edit: is 11pm in VN now and will continue tomorrow. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

 

[Matthias]

wait a moment, i dont think i read about God has any family members in the book of genesis. if i missed it, please show me at which chapter? i think you said god is unique (alone?) in the other thread? are we talking about the same god (the 2 vietnamese version of Mr. J or israel god?)

The God of Israel, Yahweh, is Jesus the Messiah’s God and Father. Yahweh alone is the one God. The family of God is comprised of human persons who are saved.