Giving others freedom to think and believe differently

[Grunt Hemlock]

Henry the 8th wanted yet another divorce. The Pope said no. Henry said "Ok - I make my own church". The Catholic Church had a resurgence under Bloody Mary - but no, they were not in control of the King James Version.

 

[amigo de christo]

when the coin in the coffer rings
the soul from Purgatory springs

I have some friendly words of advice for us all .
Let no man enter in the chambers of Rome . Let us follow Christ and embrace the pure and holy doctrine recorded in those bibles .

 

[amigo de christo]

Hubbard was evil though. An evil genius in some ways but still possessed.
I should add "my opinion". I can get quite dogmatic sometimes. :)

yeah , i would not follow that man hubbard either .

 

[Philip James]

I have some friendly words of advice for us all .
Let no man enter in the chambers of Rome . Let us follow Christ and embrace the pure and holy doctrine recorded in those bibles .

Hello amigo,

If Rome is your stumbling block then come to the Feast with Alexandria, come witj Constantinople, but come!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

wasn’t speaking of removing Him but instead removing me. Get it was silly to ask. Feel for you because you love your mother yeah? Even in your words there is (Imo) an endearing tone toward her still no matter how she is. That is something yeah? Unless I’ve misunderstood and have read into it what isn’t there. Does that in itself display Him that you love her still? Why do you put up with what you find offensive if not for her sake and not your own sake? How is patience grown there? Silly questions but never meant the question as offensive nor suggesting Him as removed from it. Since your post last night I’ve been considering: if you have two tunics (undergarments) impart to him who has none. Would your mother be one that has none?

Well, of course many say living by example is the best witness. Shine your light, be a reflection, brotherly love, by your fruit, they will know you. She thinks the world of me, I was a good father to my daughter, good husband, etc., but none of thay proves that Jesus died for our sins and rose on the third day, it just means I am a good guy. You can find a million good guys who love their family who are Budhists or Hindus too.
You hit a weakness of mine, patience - not one of my strong characteristics. And it is frustrating dealing with a stubborn person who never thinks she has sinned. Really, the implication infuriates her. Narcistic people are like that and sons love their Moms no matter what.
When God does draw us to Himself ( and I believe this is a long process orchestrated throughout our lives) or as it may happen, a sudden yank, how do we respond? It is in godly sorrow that we come to Him. We see our sin and are ashamed and in need of forgiveness. So we come to that divine appointment when we ask for forgiveness. If we do not believe we have ever done anything wrong, nor feel this godly sorrow in need of a Savior to forgive us, or that Jesus would even be the one to turn to, what then? I suppose blindness must be lifted first. Well the clock is ticking. Prayers are needed.
I must believe that all that the Holy Spirit has done through me to get to her over 30 years did not go out void and that he is actually in the process of lifting that veil.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello amigo,

If Rome is your stumbling block then come to the Feast with Alexandria, come witj Constantinople, but come!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

What is the feast with alexandria , or constantinople .

 

[DNB]

God knows!

And whoever gives only a cup of cold water to one of these little ones to drink because he is a disciple - amen, I say to you, he will surely not lose his reward.

Peace!

His gesture was recognized by Christ as something meritorious to his own rewards, not as a catalyst to someone else's salvation.
Either way, I'm not saying that good deeds do not influence others, or invoke a reaction that causes one to contemplate the source of such altruism. But that, I don't believe that it has anywhere close the amount of impact that evangelization does - Paul risked his life every single day by speaking as loudly and profusely about Christ, as he could. He did not play it safe and say, '...I'll let my actions do the talking...'

 

[DNB]

Didn't the Catholic Church have authority to put together the KJV? Wasn't it the Catholic scholars who determined what to include and what to leave out of the KJV?
So why is the Catholic bible different than the KJV?

Hi H2S, no, it was the Anglican, King James of Scotland (later to become King of England also), who authorized the KJV.
In it's first few initial releases, the KJV included the Deuterocanonical books that the Catholic Bibles have, but upon subsequent revisions (1885), it was removed until this present day. I'm not aware of any modern day translations, outside of Catholic Bibles (Douay-Rheims, Jerusalem, New American, ..), that include the Apocrypha (deuterocanonical)

 

[DNB]

That's one way of looking at it.
But I tend to disagree.
I think a lot of people love a fight. It gets their adrenaline going.
So for example the average well read amateur Bible scholar , wants to test out their ability.
They know the Bible inside out. They want to see where they rank. They notice that many others have less knowledge. Maybe they've acquired some Greek and Hebrew in their self study. And the more they fight online, the better they get. So a new fight reinforces their confidence and sharpens their claws. They get better at expressing themselves too.
They think they hold all the aces, they got scripture down pat, so no one can touch them.
In the process, the deeper meaning of scripture , of the gospels is lost. They've lost humility by being debataholics, fightaholics.
Then another person says to themselves " I'm tired of all this fighting. I think I'm losing the true meaning that Jesus was trying to stress.
Fighting doesn't prove anything of value. It's how we treat each other that matters."

Yes, you're absolutely correct, ...but, you are defining people with misguided purposes. If one is sincerely trying to convert another, knowing that Judgment is imminent, and outside of Christ there is no Salvation, then, again, a certain amount of imposition is required. If you ruffle a few feathers along the way, it was worth it, God recognizes the intent. But, of course, tact and diplomacy are required, and often acquired in time. One has to recognize when engaging with another is either futile, or detrimental - that requires experience and insight. But, outside of that, Christians were commissioned to go out and spread the Word.

 

[saintiaint]

, then, again, a certain amount of imposition is required

To impose....mmm.... not sure I like the word "imposition"

 

[saintiaint]

If one is sincerely trying to convert another, knowing that Judgment is imminent,

When is that the case though? Are they dying?
Convert? From Catholic to adult saved paradigm Christian? From atheist to Christian?
Personally speaking I don't try to convert people. I let God do the work by my example if necessary but as I said I don't try to convert anyway. I don't like the word "convert". It implies there is something wrong with them.

 

[DNB]

To impose....mmm.... not sure I like the word "imposition"

In this context, it means taking the initiative i.e. not waiting for a direct invite

 

[saintiaint]

If you ruffle a few feathers along the way, it was worth it, God recognizes the intent

But what is your intent?
To make them like you?
Maybe they don't need to be like you.
Maybe God loves them anyway.
Subtle evangelization is more effective anyway imo. And that involves trying to imitate Gods love.

 

[saintiaint]

In this context, it means taking the initiative i.e. not waiting for a direct invite

That could have a good meaning I suppose. But I suspect you might want to take over as talker rather than listener. Listening is a far more effective skill. Real empathic listening.

 

[DNB]

When is that the case though? Are they dying?
Convert? From Catholic to adult saved paradigm Christian? From atheist to Christian?
Personally speaking I don't try to convert people. I let God do the work by my example if necessary but as I said I don't try to convert anyway. I don't like the word "convert". It implies there is something wrong with them.

SIA, you call yourself a Christian, and yet, are you unaware of what it means to be one? Christ died for our sins, in order to bring us into his eternal Kingdom. That is, the other option is much less compelling. You are not grateful for your appellation as a Christian, and do not wish that the hope that you have can be extended to others, ...as soon as possible?
In other words, yes, they are dying!!! ...were you unaware?

 

[DNB]

But what is your intent?
To make them like you?
Maybe they don't need to be like you.
Maybe God loves them anyway.
Subtle evangelization is more effective anyway imo. And that involves trying to imitate Gods love.

No, it sounds like you're making excuses. Either you do not appreciate the ramifications of either accepting or rejecting, the Gospel, or, you're only concerned about your own salvation.
That is the difference between intent.

 

[DNB]

That could have a good meaning I suppose. But I suspect you might want to take over as talker rather than listener. Listening is a far more effective skill. Real empathic listening.

If you were a doctor, that was fully aware of someone's ailment, which do you believe to be the more appropriate disposition, listener or talker?
Which do you believe to be more effective, to listen to the foolish babblings of an atheist, or to correct him in his subversive and self-destructive way of thinking?

 

[saintiaint]

In other words, yes, they are dying!!! ...were you unaware?

Is that a metaphor? They are dying because they haven't been saved.
Ironically at Church today we had John's gospel about the need to die to our selfishness, in order to live.
I need to do that. I need rebirth.
Sorry off topic there

 

[saintiaint]

If you were a doctor, that was fully aware of someone's ailment, which do you believe to be the more appropriate disposition, listener or talker

Interesting analogy.
Doctor is expert. Well they are supposed to be.
So you you are the expert Christian helping the ignorant atheist.
We need to walk alongside sinners. Not act like an expert.

 

[DNB]

Is that a metaphor? They are dying because they haven't been saved.
Ironically at Church today we had John's gospel about the need to die to our selfishness, in order to live.
I need to do that. I need rebirth.
Sorry off topic there

Yes, they are dying because every day that they lose in confessing Christ as Lord & Saviour, is one day closer to eternal damnation.

 

[DNB]

Interesting analogy.
Doctor is expert. Well they are supposed to be.
So you you are the expert Christian helping the ignorant atheist.
We need to walk alongside sinners. Not act like an expert.

You are going to be a very fruitless Christian...!