quietthinker
Well-Known Member
While this is true, Jesus used allegory. Allegory has the ability to present things which give the subject clout and staying power.
Genesis as allegory? - History versus allegory
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Lots of 'Christians' don't like the Genesis accounts. Too bad! He burned Sodom alive, including children! He drowned all on Earth but 8, including children. God doesn't ask permission about anything!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I would say that Satan claps his hands in glee to hear his views supported....ie, his representation of God.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I view Genesis as a POLEMIC. It is 100% accurate in what it is presenting, but it is NOT attempting to be a textbook on Stellar or Planetary development, Geology or Biological Adaptations. It is a book correcting the ORIGIN of things from a metaphysical perspective (focusing on WHO and WHY more than the nuts and bolt details of HOW). Which means the minimal details on HOW are accurate, but incomplete, and not what God considered the important thing that He wanted us to know.
Genesis 1 is best understood from how it differs from all other ancient creation stories and what elements it shares in common. God took their stories and twisted the symbolism to trample the lies and reveal His truth.
One quick example, in Sumerian myth, the WATER existed before the pantheon of "gods" and created the other "gods". Genesis 1:1 opens with the declaration that GOD always existed and had no beginning, then immediately moves on to God being "above" the water and commanding it by merely speaking. Genesis opens by placing Sumerian myths and "gods" in their place ... nothing beneath the TRUE ETERNAL GOD!
When Jesus wanted to make a point, he went to the middle of a sea 'controlled' by a pagan god of storms and commanded the storm with a word ... announcing not superiority over mere elements, but SOVEREIGNTY over false gods. He stood at the "Gates of Hell" (a cave dominated by a temple dedicated to perversion and formerly child sacrifice) that were reported to be the gate to the underworld ... and claimed that He would build His Church upon this MOUNTAIN and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it!
Jesus was just carrying on a Family Tradition that started in Genesis 1 ... Speaking double-edged spiritual truth to trample underfoot lies.
Genesis 1 is best understood from how it differs from all other ancient creation stories and what elements it shares in common. God took their stories and twisted the symbolism to trample the lies and reveal His truth.
One quick example, in Sumerian myth, the WATER existed before the pantheon of "gods" and created the other "gods". Genesis 1:1 opens with the declaration that GOD always existed and had no beginning, then immediately moves on to God being "above" the water and commanding it by merely speaking. Genesis opens by placing Sumerian myths and "gods" in their place ... nothing beneath the TRUE ETERNAL GOD!
When Jesus wanted to make a point, he went to the middle of a sea 'controlled' by a pagan god of storms and commanded the storm with a word ... announcing not superiority over mere elements, but SOVEREIGNTY over false gods. He stood at the "Gates of Hell" (a cave dominated by a temple dedicated to perversion and formerly child sacrifice) that were reported to be the gate to the underworld ... and claimed that He would build His Church upon this MOUNTAIN and the gates of Hell would not prevail against it!
Jesus was just carrying on a Family Tradition that started in Genesis 1 ... Speaking double-edged spiritual truth to trample underfoot lies.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Where?
(when one says “Jesus said so”, I just like to see Jesus’ exact words … “Genesis is a literal account!” is probably not verbatim.)
Luke 17:26-29Where?
(when one says “Jesus said so”, I just like to see Jesus’ exact words … “Genesis is a literal account!” is probably not verbatim.)
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Analyzing scripture in this fashion is a whopper of a mistake.
Genesis is NOT a history book.
It wasn't given to us to know history even if it does contain history.
It was given to us to understand God....and a bit about ourselves.
God is NOT an allegory.
Proceed at your own risk of doom.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
YES!! Satan loves to plant seeds of doubt =why let him make a fool of you and use you??
Question about Genesis:
- Literal, or figurative?
- Fact, or allegory?
- Supports, or refutes science?
- Supports, or refutes archeology?
- Supports, or refutes history? God's Word is ALL eternal truth!!
Question about Genesis:
- Literal, or figurative?
- Fact, or allegory?
- Supports, or refutes science?
- Supports, or refutes archeology?
- Supports, or refutes history? God's Word is ALL eternal truth!!
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Genesis isn't a single account. It's a collection of accounts that have been edited together.
"He spoke to them in parables, and without a parable spoke He not to them." The bible is chock full of "parables", ie, allegory. That is a key to understanding. Most of it is historically factual, ie, those things really happened, but they were written down in scripture as spiritual lessons for the church. We need the Holy Spirit to help us understand what the Spirit is saying, ie, to give us ears to hear and eyes to see.
I didn't mean historical in an academic sense, I just meant in a factual sense, that those things really happened in fact.
There is sometimes more than one layer of meaning to things that are written. For example, one layer of meaning might be factual and another layer might be allegorical. "One thing you have said, two things have I heard." This is why we need the Holy Spirit to help us understand (He is called the Helper)....and to lead us into all truth.
He does tell us how He has spoken by the prophets here
Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
Abraham was a prophet and God used the things of Abraham (for example the two women of His) to show allegories as is shown us by Paul
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Which are Abraham things
1 Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Luke 17:26-29
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
No parable, just Biblical fact.
That's debatable, I guess.
I used to believe that. But there are many challenges to that premise.
- Errors in lineage of Christ ???
- Moses existence (and Exodus account) not supported by history and archeology ???
What affect is there on The Fall and The Atonement, if Adam was not the first human?
Since Jesus died to pay the death penalty for original sin, what happens if you remove the original sinner? Or to state this another way... How does our view of origins affect our doctrine? Trying to sort this out in my own mind. Stuck somewhere between science and religion. Send help! -...
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Not just the things of Abraham though, but the whole bible is a spiritual book full of spiritual lessons for the church/believers. The things of Abraham aren't the only allegories in scripture. There are lots of examples.......the animals in Noah's ark represent lost souls being saved and the Ark itself represents Christ......see how all the unclean animals in Peter's vision represent lost Gentile souls. Factually/historically only 8 people were saved from God's wrath/flood, along with some of the animals of the earth, but it was written down in scripture most importantly to give us spiritual lessons, rather than a geological or history lesson. And I think someone already mentioned the Rock that accompanied the Israelites in the wilderness, from which they drank "water" to keep from perishing, was Christ. The first Adam is a figure for He who was to come. The Tree of Life in Genesis represents something that is not literally a tree, as does the Tree of Knowledge of G&E.....(the blind man being healed was seeing men as trees). All the barren women in the bible represent spiritual barrenness. But we need to seek the Lord for understanding of these things:
1Co 2:9-13
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Do you have proof of an actual ERROR or are you merely wringing your hands over the two recorded genealogies not being identical?
(which has several possible valid explanations that I would look forward to your disproving).
The genealogies are abridged (which is a typical Jewish literary feature used to convey information, but not an actual ”error”). Once again, what was the AUTHOR’S purpose, not what purpose do you wish to use it for.
It boils down then to belief and acceptance. You either believe all the bible or none of it. You can't selectively belief only those parts you like and reject the rest.That's debatable, I guess.
I used to believe that. But there are many challenges to that premise.
- Errors in lineage of Christ ???
- Moses existence (and Exodus account) not supported by history and archeology ???
What affect is there on The Fall and The Atonement, if Adam was not the first human?
Since Jesus died to pay the death penalty for original sin, what happens if you remove the original sinner? Or to state this another way... How does our view of origins affect our doctrine? Trying to sort this out in my own mind. Stuck somewhere between science and religion. Send help! -...
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