Galatians 5

[Helen]

@Grailhunter

Hoping this tagging works. Somedays they do, some days they don't.

FIRSTLY, I confess I have not read any of the posts here yet...only your two sets of scriptures. I must leave the site now...but will be back later and read from post #1 when I get back later.


I myself fall into your #2 set of scriptures....why we are no longer sinners before the Lord. Yet we walk in this flesh and the lusts of it...even to get angry sometimes wins out.

As you may know by now...I am one that leans heavily on what Paul shows us of our position while still in this condition. Our choice is...which one are we going to believe and choose to identify with? Our Position , or our Condition?

'I have set before thee life and death, therefore choose life.'

'Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin and alive to God. '

I do not 'struggle' any more with the sin thing....I do not navel gaze.
When I am feeling that I am not meeting the mark ...I then say -"Lord, I can't, but you can."

Which is something He spoke into my heart a number of years ago.

I was walking up and down our hallway in prayer about something (I have forgotten what, now,) and I was saying " Lord I can't..and I never can be .."

And, clear as a bell I heard in my heart.... " No Helen, you can't, the sooner you settle that the better...but I can!! "

We either believe in Grace...=GK 'Divine influence upon the heart and the reflection in the life' or we don't.

A sinner is focussed on ourself and our failures , rather than focussing on Him and all that He is in us. I choose the later, I wasted for too many years on the former.

( sorry for typos...I don't have time to re read this)

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter

Hoping this tagging works. Somedays they do, some days they don't.

FIRSTLY, I confess I have not read any of the posts here yet...only your two sets of scriptures. I must leave the site now...but will be back later and read from post #1 when I get back later.


I myself fall into your #2 set of scriptures....why we are no longer sinners before the Lord. Yet we walk in this flesh and the lusts of it...even to get angry sometimes wins out.

As you may know by now...I am one that leans heavily on what Paul shows us of our position while still in this condition. Our choice is...which one are we going to believe and choose to identify with? Our Position , or our Condition?

'I have set before thee life and death, therefore choose life.'

'Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin and alive to God. '

I do not 'struggle' any more with the sin thing....I do not navel gaze.
When I am feeling that I am not meeting the mark ...I then say -"Lord, I can't, but you can."

Which is something He spoke into my heart a number of years ago.

I was walking up and down our hallway in prayer about something (I have forgotten what, now,) and I was saying " Lord I can't..and I never can be .."

And, clear as a bell I heard in my heart.... " No Helen, you can't, the sooner you settle that the better...but I can!! "

We either believe in Grace...=GK 'Divine influence upon the heart and the reflection in the life' or we don't.

A sinner is focussed on ourself and our failures , rather than focussing on Him and all that He is in us. I choose the later, I wasted for too many years on the former.

( sorry for typos...I don't have time to re read this)

lol Not worried about typos Helen.....Mister Fat Fingers here. Posts 7-134-137
The point is that this is a list of valid scriptures, and there are many, that seem to present two different points of theology/doctrine. Both are inspired by God and are true and are accurate. The question I posed to them was, what was the truth that brought these scriptures into harmony? That truth would unlock a lot of misunderstandings and that truth has to be, because again all of these scriptures are true and accurate. So far....no takers. lol Taking sides is why they pursue this never ending cycle of throwing scriptures at each other, and accomplishing nothing. If you know the answer...don't say it....Wisdom given is not appreciated, wisdom found is a treasure for the rest of their lives. Let them earn it.

 

[Helen]

So your position is that the Christian can do these works of the flesh (adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like) and still be unconditionally saved anyway??!?!?!

Only a carnal mind would get that take on what Paul was saying.
You can do better than that, I have seen your posts.

They said that to Paul, and he said - Gal 5.13 " For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

A Christian would not....but maybe a fleshly person calling himself a christian, would maybe.

 

[Davy]

Context ...

[2 Timothy 2:8-19]
8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory. 11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. 14 Remind [them] of these things, and solemnly charge [them] in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless [and leads] to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly [and] empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 [men] who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."​

Justification vs Sanctification.
First note God’s part in our salvation ...

• We did not choose, we were CHOSEN (v.10)
• We were chosen to OBTAIN salvation in Christ and eternal glory (v.10)
• This promise is TRUSTWORTHY for those that actually died with Him (v.11) but it is not true for those that did not die with Him. (The Unsaved) (v.12)
• The Chosen can stumble, but they cannot fall (v.13) because Christ is faithful to His Chosen even when His Chosen are unfaithful to him.
• THEREFORE we, the CHOSEN, should make every effort, now that they are chosen, to be even more faithful (because they are loved and forgiven even when they are unfaithful) (v.15)
• Arguing with heretics brings no glory to God (v.14, v16-18)
• BECAUSE we belong to the Lord (a condition that we cannot change) we are to abstain from WICKEDNESS (v.19) ... we are not earning a CHOOSING that was not ours and we are not maintaining a LOVE that cannot be lost (because God is all faithful).

We are to PRESENT OURSELVES approved .....
God empowers us to do what is right.

• "... so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." [John 3:21]

He loves us freely and enables us to return that love freely.

• "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.” [Eze 36:26]

The N.T. is full of these verses.

I think you might want to get back to the 1611 KJV Bible. The New Testament manuscripts used for modern Bibles isn't from the same Greek texts the majority of the early Church used.

Like Paul said, all the law is fulfilled in "... thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." (Gal.5:14).

Christ's Church, even IF we go out and slip up and sin, WE place ourselves back under God's laws, which indeed are still in effect in most western societies, and quite a bit in eastern nations too. This means we are to watch ourselves, checking ourselves, working out our own salvation with fear and trembling like Apostle Paul also said (Phil.2:12).

What some Churches today are doing is teaching brethren to forget about the idea of sin, telling them they are no longer under the law since having believed on Jesus, forgetting to truly explain Paul who presented a condition of 'IF' with that. By doing that those brethren are wrongly thinking they cannot be convicted of sin anymore. It is simply a formula for living in a sand castle.

 

[amadeus]

Only a carnal mind would get that take on what Paul was saying.
You can do better than that, I have seen your posts.

They said that to Paul, and he said - Gal 5.13 " For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

A Christian would not....but maybe a fleshly person calling himself a christian, would maybe.

We've talked about this before, Helen, and even though you are on one side and I on the other on certain not now mentions issues salvation can still lie ahead of both of us. Doctrines [so-called... see @Willie T thread on it] can be good and helpful... but sometimes they really do stand between us and God.

 

[GodsGrace]

well, we hear "...cannot sin" a certain (gratuitous) way, when "betternot sin" is likely more in line with the rest of Scripture? "Cannot" can be read two ways, iow?

Hi bb
I know what you mean...it's interesting.
You CANNOT sin.
Not meaning YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO SIN...
but meaning
YOU BETTER NOT SIN.

checking my Ital bible....
It would seem to have to do with ability.

I always thought it had to do with the sin nature AND
living a life of sin (rather than sinning at times).

 

[GodsGrace]

I can’t argue with you because only YOU can speak for yourself and I can only speak for myself. I am a child of God and I am a friend of Christ ... because God says so. For my part I was a slave of sin and death and God laid claim to me as surely as He laid claim to Saul on the road to Damascus. At that moment I quite literally became a slave to God ... a ‘bondi’ [Exodus 21:5-6] ... trading one gang affiliation for another.

So nothing you say can trump the reality of my past. Romans 6 says SLAVES and I believe that it means SLAVES.
“Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind but now I see.” (Not about what WE chose.)

Why have you turned this into a personal conversation?
I posted scripture and spoke about that scripture.
Why not respond to that?

Of course you can't speak about me...I don't even want you to.
Did I say something personal about you?
I'm not going back to read it...I don't think so, but if I did I apologize.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Only a carnal mind would get that take on what Paul was saying.
You can do better than that, I have seen your posts.

They said that to Paul, and he said - Gal 5.13 " For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another."

A Christian would not....but maybe a fleshly person calling himself a christian, would maybe.

Hello,

The OP posted (in blue) about Galatians 5:19-21:

"Many will say that verses 19-21 condemns everyone that commits those sins. But if that is true then it contradicts verses 1-18 which clearly show that the believer is not under the law of works."

I disagree with the OP for verses 19-21 DOES condemn ANYONE (Christian or not) that commits any of those sins.....no exceptions are given in the context.

I think you and I would both agree that Christians are not perfectly sinless, so Christians can and do commit one or more of the sins listed in Galatians 5:19-21.

So the issue is this:
does the Christian that commits one (or more) of the sins listed in Gal 5:19-21, does he confess his sins and receive forgiveness and be cleansed of those sins (1 John 1:9, --- note this verse begin with a conditional word "IF".)

or

does he remain impenitent of his sins and continue to wallow in those sins impenitently? If the Christian refuses to repent of his sins, then he will be lost, as Gal 5:19-21 says " they (anyone - no exceptions) which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God". The verb "do" is in the present tense showing an ongoing action. So if a Christian involves himself in one (or more) of the sins listed in Gal 5:19-21 and impenitently keeps on doing that sin then he will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Maybe this will help you understand what my point was in my original post.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who denies Jesus?

[John 3:18-21 NLT] 18 "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants."

• Deniers: do not believe ... have already been judged ... do evil ... hate the light (God) ... refuse to go near the light (God)
• Confessors: believe in Him ... face NO judgement ... do what is right ... come to the light.

Paul is writing to Timothy about Christians.....
You say 2 Timothy 2:12b is speaking about non-Christians?
You're the first person I've ever heard say this.

In all of chapter 2 of 2 Timothy Paul is speaking about born again believers in Jesus....Including verse 11.......if we die with Him we also live with Him
Also speaking about believers..verse 12a....If we endure we shall reign with Him.
Also speaking about believers..verse 12b.. If we deny Him He will deny Us.
Also speaking about believers..verse 13...If we are faithless, He remains faithful.

What are you saying that ALL OF THE ABOVE verses are for BELIEVERS
except for 12b ??
ALL the verses in 2 Timothy 2:11-13 are for believers...

You have to change the meaning because of the belief you have in eternal security...this DOES create problems. Security is conditional on our believing in Christ and living IN HIM.

[John 10:25-31 NLT] 25 Jesus replied, "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father's name. 26 But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father's hand. 30 The Father and I are one." 31 Once again the people picked up stones to kill him.

• Deniers: do not believe ... because they are not Jesus’ sheep (not given by the Father) ... want to kill Jesus
• Confessors: are Jesus’ sheep (given by the Father) ... listen to Jesus ... are known by Jesus ... follow Jesus ... are given eternal life (will never perish) ... safe in God’s hand.

Of course. I'm not sure why you posted this.
We have eternal life for as long as we are IN CHRIST.
Our eternal life begins after we die...right now our life in heaven begins by belonging to the Kingdom of God. But eternal life begins after death..for now we are destined to die....so we cannot have eternal life yet.

However, our eternal life CANNOT begin now because, as shown just by the few verses we're discussin...we could decide to abandon God in the future and then we would NO LONGER have eternal life.

Romans 8:24-25
24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?
25But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.

[1 Corinthians 12:3 NLT] 3 So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

• One who truly confesses Jesus as Lord will not deny and one that denies the Lordship of Christ will never truly confess. It is the saved and the damned ... the Elect and the Reprobate ... that are being compared. It is not two types of children of God indwelt with the Holy Spirit that are being compared in 2 Timothy 2:12. Otherwise the phrases before and after directly contradict the meaning of the center phrase. How can God both remain faithful even if we we are unfaithful and at the same time deny us if we deny Him?

Great last question!
I answered it in my previous reply to you.

GOD REMAINS FAITHFUL TO HIMSELF....NOT to us.
IF we deny HIM --- we Christians -- then He will deny us.
Paul is speaking to saved persons...
He's not speaking to the saved and then in verse 12 changes to the unsaved.
This would make no sense at all.

Is God not faithful to Himself?
Did He not sent us a redeemer just like He promised?
Does God go back on His word?
NO.

He's faithful to HIS plan of salvation....
If we deny Him,,,He is not faithful to save us because we don't want to be saved IF WE DENY HIM.

 

[Grailhunter]

Excuse me @GodsGrace …don’t mean to step on your toes…

You people just don’t get it! You cannot pick a side. The scriptures listed are true and accurate Words of God. If you pick a side, you have not picked the truth, but only one side or the other that is against God…..against God! Choosing either side means that you stand against the scriptures on the other side. So that means that both sides stand against the Word of God! This thought process is one of the reasons that the church has fractured into so many denominations, and weakened God’s church on earth and all the in fighting has strengthened Satan, nothing to support the scriptures. The spirit of this forum is active proof of that.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello,

The OP posted (in blue) about Galatians 5:19-21:

"Many will say that verses 19-21 condemns everyone that commits those sins. But if that is true then it contradicts verses 1-18 which clearly show that the believer is not under the law of works."

I disagree with the OP for verses 19-21 DOES condemn ANYONE (Christian or not) that commits any of those sins.....no exceptions are given in the context.

I think you and I would both agree that Christians are not perfectly sinless, so Christians can and do commit one or more of the sins listed in Galatians 5:19-21.

So the issue is this:
does the Christian that commits one (or more) of the sins listed in Gal 5:19-21, does he confess his sins and receive forgiveness and be cleansed of those sins (1 John 1:9, --- note this verse begin with a conditional word "IF".)

or

does he remain impenitent of his sins and continue to wallow in those sins impenitently? If the Christian refuses to repent of his sins, then he will be lost, as Gal 5:19-21 says " they (anyone - no exceptions) which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God". The verb "do" is in the present tense showing an ongoing action. So if a Christian involves himself in one (or more) of the sins listed in Gal 5:19-21 and impenitently keeps on doing that sin then he will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Maybe this will help you understand what my point was in my original post.

I think there's a problem in Christianity in understanding what the law or works is referring to. People, for teachings of the past 50 years or so, have learned to dislike the word WORKS/DEEDS. So half of the N.T. gets thrown out.
Even Revelation 21:27 states that nothing unclean will enter into heaven.

I also think it's important to note that it DOES NOT say that the UNSAVED will not get into heaven,,,but that the UNCLEAN will not get into heaven.

This is also why Mathew 7:23 is wrongly understood.
Nowhere between verses 13 and 23 is salvation even spoken of...
but I hear constantly that Jesus did not know those in verse 23 because they were not saved.

NO. He clearly says it's because they were LAWLESS.

I'm sorry we've moved so far from biblical truths.

 

[GodsGrace]

Excuse me @GodsGrace …don’t mean to step on your toes…

You people just don’t get it! You cannot pick a side. The scriptures listed are true and accurate Words of God. If you pick a side, you have not picked the truth, but only one side or the other that is against God…..against God! Choosing either side means that you stand against the scriptures on the other side. So that means that both sides stand against the Word of God! This thought process is one of the reasons that the church has fractured into so many denominations, and weakened God’s church on earth and all the in fighting has strengthened Satan, nothing to support the scriptures. The spirit of this forum is active proof of that.

What do you mean GH?
The issue of loss of salvation has been going on since BEFORE Jesus.
Both sides cannot be right...one side has to be wrong.
The Early Church Fathers DID NOT believe in eternal security.
Paul even said that he does not want to be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

[Grailhunter]

What do you mean GH?
The issue of loss of salvation has been going on since BEFORE Jesus.
Both sides cannot be right...one side has to be wrong.
The Early Church Fathers DID NOT believe in eternal security.
Paul even said that he does not want to be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Check our conversion.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I think there's a problem in Christianity in understanding what the law or works is referring to. People, for teachings of the past 50 years or so, have learned to dislike the word WORKS/DEEDS. So half of the N.T. gets thrown out.
Even Revelation 21:27 states that nothing unclean will enter into heaven.

Yes, those that say we are not saved by works need to identify what type of works they are speaking about. I would agree with them that we are not saved by works of merit nor are we saved by flawless works required by the OT law of Moses. But we are saved by obedience to the will of God, Paul makes a contrast in Romans 4 between "works" and "obedience".

That contrast is seen in just one verse, Romans 10:3:

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

Those fleshly Jews were lost for they were doing a work that will not save (going about to establish their own righteousness) instead obeying- submitting to God's righteous commands that does save.

I also think it's important to note that it DOES NOT say that the UNSAVED will not get into heaven,,,but that the UNCLEAN will not get into heaven.

This is also why Mathew 7:23 is wrongly understood.
Nowhere between verses 13 and 23 is salvation even spoken of...
but I hear constantly that Jesus did not know those in verse 23 because they were not saved.

NO. He clearly says it's because they were LAWLESS.

I'm sorry we've moved so far from biblical truths.

I have seen on various forums the "faith only" crowd argue that those in Matthew 7 were lost for they were doing works. But the context clearly says "but he that doeth the will of my Father" are the ones that enter the kingdom. Similar to the Jews in Romans 10:3, those in Matthew 7:21-23 were trying to save themselves by doing self-righteous works instead of obeying/doing the will of God...they were lawless, as you say, for they were not doing the will of God. If they had been doing the will of the Father, then Christ would have known them.

 

[atpollard]

Why have you turned this into a personal conversation?
I posted scripture and spoke about that scripture.
Why not respond to that?

Of course you can't speak about me...I don't even want you to.
Did I say something personal about you?
I'm not going back to read it...I don't think so, but if I did I apologize.

Sure ... you completely misunderstand the scriptures that both you and I quote and no matter what I post from God you will deny that God really meant SLAVE when God said SLAVE. You will deny that God really meant CHOSE when God said He Chose (the gospels don't apply to us because EVERYTHING that Jesus said was said to the Apostles ... see your argument applies to all of scripture!).

That is the only response I can offer to your misunderstanding of scripture if you will not allow for a personal observation that I will never agree with you because GOD did choose me when I wanted nothing to do with him. My empirical reality contradicts the basic assumption that you whitewash the text with. I cannot deny my reality to agree with your opinion.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, those that say we are not saved by works need to identify what type of works they are speaking about. I would agree with them that we are not saved by works of merit nor are we saved by flawless works required by the OT law of Moses. But we are saved by obedience to the will of God, Paul makes a contrast in Romans 4 between "works" and "obedience".

That contrast is seen in just one verse, Romans 10:3:

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

Those fleshly Jews were lost for they were doing a work that will not save (going about to establish their own righteousness) instead obeying- submitting to God's righteous commands that does save.




I have seen on various forums the "faith only" crowd argue that those in Matthew 7 were lost for they were doing works. But the context clearly says "but he that doeth the will of my Father" are the ones that enter the kingdom. Similar to the Jews in Romans 10:3, those in Matthew 7:21-23 were trying to save themselves by doing self-righteous works instead of obeying/doing the will of God...they were lawless, as you say, for they were not doing the will of God. If they had been doing the will of the Father, then Christ would have known them.

Yes. I agree with all you've said.
The Faith Only crowd.
I've been told I'm lost because I'm trying to help Jesus and He doesn't need my help.

Works to not save us.
Faith saves us...our love for God saves us...being born of above saves us....

This does not take away that we are to be obedient (another terrible word).
Obedience of faith...
Romans 1:5 and Romans 16:17.....what learnings???!
Romans 16:19 Paul is overjoyed at the obedience of the Romans.

Seems so simple.....

 

[atpollard]

We have eternal life for as long as we are IN CHRIST.

Where does that verse add those words?
Where in that paragraph is that limitation explained?
Is it found anywhere in that Chapter?

How can I respond when you make up the opposite meaning of what the text says by adding words?

 

[farouk]

You cannot just keep some passages in God's Word while omitting others. We have to receive all of it.

There are enough examples in Paul's Epistles to show that the believer can still fall away from Christ if they so choose. That is why Paul was ever admonishing them to follow Jesus and His Apostles.

Today's so-called Grace Movement, which was started by some old scholars, like E.W. Bullinger, and proposed by those like C.R.Stam, J.C.O'Hair, Charles Baker, etc., have isolated Paul's Epistles even from the Four Gospels. If Paul didn't say it, then it ain't written for Gentiles, is their view.

That is where mainly the OSAS doctrines originate. So you might want to go through all... of Paul's Epistles for yourself, and find out what all he did preach.

But assurance of faith (as in John's First Epistle) and eternal security (as in Romans 8) are thoroughly part of what John and Paul teach in the New Testament, and consistent with what the Lord Jesus taught in the Gospels.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure ... you completely misunderstand the scriptures that both you and I quote and no matter what I post from God you will deny that God really meant SLAVE when God said SLAVE. You will deny that God really meant CHOSE when God said He Chose (the gospels don't apply to us because EVERYTHING that Jesus said was said to the Apostles ... see your argument applies to all of scripture!).

That is the only response I can offer to your misunderstanding of scripture if you will not allow for a personal observation that I will never agree with you because GOD did choose me when I wanted nothing to do with him. My empirical reality contradicts the basic assumption that you whitewash the text with. I cannot deny my reality to agree with your opinion.

Maybe it's YOU that misunderstands scripture?
Why does it necessarily have to be me?

Are you aware that the majority of Christianity agrees with my exegesis?
You've told me before that might does not make right so you don't need to repeat it.

But MOST THEOLOGIANS agree that God saves WHO WANTS TO BE SAVED...and not who He wants to be saved. God wants all of humanity to be saved.

So is He impotent?
No.
Humanity has to ACCEPT HIS terms...and not all of us do.

In the verse in John that you brought up JESUS WAS SPEAKING TO HIS APOSTLES.

Also in Mathew 28:19-20 He was speaking ONLY to His Apostles.
NEVER did I say that Jesus spoke only to His apostles in the entire N.T.
This is rather insulting, TTYTT.

So are you a SLAVE of God or a SON of God?
Pick.

And we're not here to discuss YOUR reality...
Your reality is not the N.T.

I'm here to discuss the N.T. and how it proves that God wants to save everyone and HE does NOT choose who will be saved and who will be damned
and I'm here to discuss that we have FREE WILL ... libertarian free will.

If you don't care to discuss THAT,,, then fine.
Consider the conversation over.

Just don't tell me that it's ME that doesn't understand scripture when I could post many commentaries that agree with me and you can only post calvinist commentaries that agree with you.

That's rather condescending to be honest.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where does that verse add those words?
Where in that paragraph is that limitation explained?
Is it found anywhere in that Chapter?

How can I respond when you make up the opposite meaning of what the text says by adding words?

I posted scripture.
I'm allowed to EXPLAIN it.

Why don't YOU explain how YOU understand it?

You think you have eternal life now?
You're sure you'll still be saved when you're 90?
What does perseverance of the saints mean?

It means that you'll only know at the end of your life whether or not you persevered.

You'll have eternal life AFTER you die...
for now, you're still due one death, and then comes the judgement.

Romans 8:24