For the anti-vax people here

[JohnDB]

I don't need to The definition of "Covid Death" is clearly detailed by my government. It is any death that has occurred within 28 days of a person testing positive for Covid. Here's the proof and link:

Official UK Coronavirus Dashboard

"Number of deaths of people who had had a positive test result for COVID-19 and died within 28 days of the first positive test."

Every country has employed its own unique twist on how to define a (cough) "Covid death" in order to ensure the numbers look huge.

Test positive for Covid on Day 1, then 3-4 weeks go by, you die from cancer . . . . chalk up a (cough) "Covid death"

It's utterly ridiculous, very divisive and pretty wicked.

They combine this nonsense with the number of what they call "Confirmed cases" (which is only the people they tested and is about 10-20 times less than the true number of cases) and that presents a very dire picture because it looks like there's a lot of deaths within a small number of cases. It is of course a huge lie, a terrible misrepresentation of the true facts.

The link above shows that the UK has had 121,674 "Covid Deaths".

If you click on the "Cases" tab you'll see that the government states that there have now been 4,013,799 "Confirmed Cases"
Defined as "Number of people with at least one positive COVID-19 test result (either lab-reported or lateral flow device)"

That would suggest a death rate of 121674 / 4013799 * 100 = 3% which looks terribly high.

PURE FICTITIOUS SCAREMONGERING

The TRUE number of cases in the UK is known to be AT LEAST 10 times the number of confirmed cases and likely close to 20 times.

So the true number of cases the UK has had is likely 40 million or more imo. The VAST MAJORITY of these cases (80%+) have no symptoms at all and others only mild symptoms and those people in the main have not been tested and so don't figure in the number of "Confirmed cases"

So when you look at the true picture the death rate is likely less than 0.3%

This entire charade is so wickedly disgusting there should be criminal prosecutions for what they have done.

Most people who are rabid "Vaxxers" haven't done one iota of proper research into vaccines and have no clue whatsoever of the facts as a result.




Sorry but that's a complete falsehood. Vaccines do kill people and as has been witnessed in Norway the actual process of vaccination itself has killed 20-30 people who were extremely old and frail in a care home. Their bodies were clearly not strong enough to cope with being forced to mount an immune response to the vaccine material. You can search the US CDC Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) here:

https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=197BAFE59ED312D605A79B55035F

Just select "Deaths" as the "symptom" in section 2 and do the search. Then you'll see them.

Deaths are not the only problem. There have been lots of life-changing debilitating conditions caused by vaccines too such as Guillian Barre Syndrome and narcolepsy. You can do searches for those too.

The number of such instances is of course small compared to the number of people vaccinated.

Not knowing this is somewhat embarrassing TBH. You really should have done the basic research before trying to sway people's hearts and minds.

Sorry...
All I read was that you erroneously believe that you are right.

Guess what?

You are not!

 

[Whetstone]

You can not argue with the government's own website. Doing so just damages your credibility.

"Covid deaths" are what they are. Any death that occurred where the person had been positive for Covid up to 28 days earlier.

What I believe doesn't come into it. That IS what a "Covid Death" is defined as in the UK and it's likely the same in other countries though I know there are differences.

Equally the CDC VAERS Database does not lie. It records many of the injuries and deaths caused by vaccines. Not all of them, but many of them. Thus far the Vaccine Compensation Programme in the USA has paid out some $4.5 BILLION to victims of vaccines.

Again if you want to refute the VAERS database and suggest it is a pack of lies then feel free but again you'll simply destroy any credibility.

 

[Deborah_]

Again if you want to refute the VAERS database and suggest it is a pack of lies then feel free but again you'll simply destroy any credibility.

It's not the database that is "a pack of lies" but the misinterpretation that some people make of it. It does indeed record many adverse effects (and deaths) caused by vaccines - but it also records a far larger number of coincidental illnesses and deaths. If you want the true figure of vaccine-caused deaths and illnesses, VAERS is not the place to look.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Most people who are antivaxxers don't know the difference between correlation and causation.

Vaccines don't kill people.
Viruses kill people.

Vaccines don't change your DNA.
Viruses do change your DNA.

Vaccines don't cause birth defects.
Viruses cause birth defects.

Have you heard of GMO foods? Scientists have learned how to splice a gene from one plant or animal into another plant or animal. The technique is being refined into a new medical treatment called "gene therapy", whereby a virus is modified to act as a "vector" to carry the new genetic material to the place where it will be beneficial to the patient. According to this article, this technique is not yet available to the general public.

Refer to this medical article for more information.
How does gene therapy work?: MedlinePlus Genetics

This science has already appeared in science fiction, in movies like "The Bourne Legacy" which postulated the enhancement of human traits to create deadly assassins, who have greater speed, agility, and intelligence. The story is fiction but the science is right around the corner.

All well and good, right? If you are interested in further research, check out a new technique called CRISPR. Again, another miracle of science and progress.
What are genome editing and CRISPR-Cas9?: MedlinePlus Genetics

Who is funding this research?
Who is really funding this research?

Ethical concerns?
What are the Ethical Concerns of Genome Editing?

For another perspective see Polly's video related to eugenics research
Maxwell, Epstein and the Control of Science since WW2

 

[JohnDB]

Have you heard of GMO foods? Scientists have learned how to splice a gene from one plant or animal into another plant or animal. The technique is being refined into a new medical treatment called "gene therapy", whereby a virus is modified to act as a "vector" to carry the new genetic material to the place where it will be beneficial to the patient. According to this article, this technique is not yet available to the general public.

Refer to this medical article for more information.
How does gene therapy work?: MedlinePlus Genetics

This science has already appeared in science fiction, in movies like "The Bourne Legacy" which postulated the enhancement of human traits to create deadly assassins, who have greater speed, agility, and intelligence. The story is fiction but the science is right around the corner.

All well and good, right? If you are interested in further research, check out a new technique called CRISPR. Again, another miracle of science and progress.
What are genome editing and CRISPR-Cas9?: MedlinePlus Genetics

Who is funding this research?
Who is really funding this research?

Ethical concerns?
What are the Ethical Concerns of Genome Editing?

For another perspective see Polly's video related to eugenics research
Maxwell, Epstein and the Control of Science since WW2

I know all about CRISPR....
I was talking about that about 5 years ago.
And it works great for animals if you can do it successfully.

However, they have not been successful (despite the claims) in editing human DNA.
The new edited parts become cancerous inside of two years and you die.

I know that they want it to work, and they are close to getting it to work...but it still doesn't work.
And it takes a tremendous amount of time and knowledge to do animals. But it basically can be done in a garage.

The scary part is that people can do this in their own home...new diseases from bacteria and viruses can be developed this way with no cure or vaccine. CRISPR technology itself is based on a virus. Which is why Coronavirus are usually horrible in side effects of birth defects, infertility, and sterility.
But CRISPR technology itself is usually a failure in people. They mention sicle cell...still unsuccessful. They are close but it's still not a cure.

Better chickens, horses, dogs, or other livestock? Sure thing. Glow in the dark mice? Coming right up.
Super-human? Nope.
The best they can do at this point is a form of adopting a snowflake baby with different traits.

And as far as GMO food?

You are going to have to talk to people long before the Renaissance about the modifications they did to various crops.
It's nothing new. It's been going on for thousands of years already. I know it seems like it's all new with disastrous results sometimes...it isn't.
Today we just know more about it. They can grow tomatoes that can make all sorts of stimulants from nicotine to benzidrine.
Mushrooms create a ton of various chemicals from antibiotics to heart meds to deadly poisons. Star Anise (spice) is used to make a very popular antiviral.

This has been going on for thousands and thousands of years already. Medicine may have been bumbling about for the past 5,000 years...or it might seem to have. But the gospel of Luke was written by Luke...and what was his profession? How could that be a profession when they were so bad at it? Maybe they were better at it than you would like to think.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I know all about CRISPR....
I was talking about that about 5 years ago.
And it works great for animals if you can do it successfully.

Did you read the articles and watch the video before you posted. If not, I am wasting my time.

And as far as GMO food?
You are going to have to talk to people long before the Renaissance about the modifications they did to various crops.

Don't mistake horticulture with DNA manipulation. These are light-years apart.

 

[JohnDB]

Don't mistake horticulture with DNA manipulation. These are light-years apart.

Not really...
With a paper hole puncher and a dixie cup with a little water and some masking tape I too can be a geneticist...

That's sometimes all that is needed to manipulate DNA.

 

[Gregory]

400,000 alone died last month from Coronavirus... dwarfing your influenza.

At least a large % of those virus deaths were from flu and car crashes and heart attacks and strokes, etc., etc., etc.

When a hospital gets money for reporting a covid death, what do you think is going to happen? So you cannot say that 400,000 died last month from covid. If you do, you are only kidding yourself.

 

[JohnDB]

At least a large % of those virus deaths were from flu and car crashes and heart attacks and strokes, etc., etc., etc.

When a hospital gets money for reporting a covid death, what do you think is going to happen? So you cannot say that 400,000 died last month from covid. If you do, you are only kidding yourself.

Then I'm going to be in fantasy land securely.
Because I do know for a fact that for every inflated number there are grossly under reported numbers as well...as directed by conservative political party membership administration's. Because it is happening in my state exhaustively.

So in the end the reporting balances out.

 

[Gregory]

Then I'm going to be in fantasy land securely.
Because I do know for a fact that for every inflated number there are grossly under reported numbers as well...as directed by conservative political party membership administration's. Because it is happening in my state exhaustively.

So in the end the reporting balances out.

No it is not, if there is anything, it is going to be vabulous inflation. Just follow the money. You know how that works.

 

[Cristo Rei]

It's not the database that is "a pack of lies" but the misinterpretation that some people make of it. It does indeed record many adverse effects (and deaths) caused by vaccines - but it also records a far larger number of coincidental illnesses and deaths. If you want the true figure of vaccine-caused deaths and illnesses, VAERS is not the place to look.

The point is that vaccines do harm people and kill people. That vaccine makers are exempt from any liability.
It is morally abhorrent yet u support it... Its such an abominable act that it isn't permitted in any other industry...

Selling a product that you know will harm some people is immoral...
The perception that it will save lives is no excuse for ending another persons life

 

[Cristo Rei]

@JohnDB @Deborah_

Here's a tricky question for u guys...

Do u believe that lobbying is corrupt?

If u say yes then u have a difficult task in explaining why the pharmaceutical industry is the highest paying lobby groups
If u say no then u have an equally difficult task in trying to justify lobbying

 

[JohnDB]

@JohnDB @Deborah_

Here's a tricky question for u guys...

Do u believe that lobbying is corrupt?

If u say yes then u have a difficult task in explaining why the pharmaceutical industry is the highest paying lobby groups
If u say no then u have an equally difficult task in trying to justify lobbying

A representative government is what we have...in the USA it is a republic...not a democracy. Because that's what works best.
So of course we have lobbying and lobbyist.
There are good ones and bad ones.

The fleas come with the dog.

 

[JohnDB]

No it is not, if there is anything, it is going to be vabulous inflation. Just follow the money. You know how that works.

But I've personally witnessed a friend of mine who died from complications from covid... within weeks of coming out of the induced coma and recovering. But according to the state he died of multiple things other than covid. He was the store manager of my local Kroger...known the man for the past 20 years. Healthy as a horse normally. Getting older but still more than competent and capable at his job.
Covid destroyed his body...kidneys, lungs, heart, and nervous system...

But since he died at home...they claimed that he died of natural causes and not covid. Even though it was just three weeks after getting out of the hospital. He caught coronavirus at work but wasn't going to be able to go back after getting out of the hospital.
So that's why I say what I am saying...

And when medical systems are overwhelmed with coronavirus cases (as we have had several times here) and someone dies from not getting medical care because of the overloaded hospitals and clinics...
Something that is normally very treatable...what killed them then?

So where I am sure that some systems are inflating their numbers we see ours here under reporting the numbers... deliberately.

 

[Deborah_]

The point is that vaccines do harm people and kill people. That vaccine makers are exempt from any liability.
It is morally abhorrent yet u support it... Its such an abominable act that it isn't permitted in any other industry...

Selling a product that you know will harm some people is immoral...
The perception that it will save lives is no excuse for ending another persons life

Yet people sell cars (which cause around 2000 deaths a year in the UK) and guns (which caused 19,000 deaths last year in the US). Why is it immoral to sell a vaccine but not immoral to sell a gun?

No-one claims that vaccines are totally safe; the point is that the vaccine is much less dangerous than the disease.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not really...
With a paper hole puncher and a dixie cup with a little water and some masking tape I too can be a geneticist...

That's sometimes all that is needed to manipulate DNA.

Oh well. Have a nice day.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yet people sell cars (which cause around 2000 deaths a year in the UK) and guns (which caused 19,000 deaths last year in the US). Why is it immoral to sell a vaccine but not immoral to sell a gun?

No-one claims that vaccines are totally safe; the point is that the vaccine is much less dangerous than the disease.

Cars don't cause deaths; guns don't cause deaths. Don't confuse agency with instrumentality. Drivers cause deaths with cars; people cause deaths with guns. The important question comes down to motive. Was the automobile crash an "accident" or on purpose? Was the person shot by accident or on purpose? Was the shooter a policeman protecting the public or a thief robbing a bank?

Selling a so-called vaccine under the pretense that it intends to solve a pandemic that isn't actually a pandemic for a flu-like illness that has a 99.9% recovery rate seems suspect to me.

"Nothing to fear but fear itself" FDR 1933

 

[Cristo Rei]

Yet people sell cars (which cause around 2000 deaths a year in the UK)

The car doesn't kill you. Don't try twist things... Its the driver that controls the car

and guns (which caused 19,000 deaths last year in the US)

Again your desperately trying to twist something to justify yourself... A gun doesn't kill anyone on its own, it needs a shooter

Why is it immoral to sell a vaccine but not immoral to sell a gun?

Well the gun won't kill anyone on it's own and is sold with the relevant warning...
The vaccine will kill and maime on its own and has no warnings. It claims to be safe

So try again... Try and find me an example of a product being sold without the relevant warnings...
A product that will kill people on its own, without a 3rd party...
Do food manufacturers get away with that??? Nooo
Does any industry get away with that??? Nooo

If I have 1,000 bars of chocolate and know that one of them is deadly. Is it ok for me to still sell them??? Why not??? What the difference then???

No-one claims that vaccines are totally safe

All I'm hearing is "safe and effective"... Their not telling anyone about the side effects...

I was put on anti-depressants and suffered an adverse reaction that occurs 1 in every 1,000... I wasn't informed of it...
U think that is fair??? Only an animal can possibly say that is fair...
I should of been told the side effects and given the choice, not forced onto this stuff without warning...
And when I looked at the total side effects I was gobsmacked... So many terrible side effects including death yet no one tell anyone... "oh it works on most people so its ok"... Im here to say its immoral and criminal... The analogy above with the chocolate bars should be clear enough but your medical bias might not allow you to understand this.

the point is that the vaccine is much less dangerous than the disease.

So your not ok with a mild flu-like virus that kills old people that are dying but your ok with killing people to save them... Geez
So now your God... U think that killing 100 people to save 1,000 lives is honourable... U think its justifiable...
Its murder plain and simple, anyone else would be in jail for it...

Then lets add the fact that they are exempt from any liability and we have a scandal...
Why should they be given such? What other industry gets away with such?
Its immorlity of the highest order

 

[Deborah_]

So your not ok with a mild flu-like virus that kills old people that are dying but your ok with killing people to save them... Geez
So now your God... U think that killing 100 people to save 1,000 lives is honourable... U think its justifiable...
Its murder plain and simple, anyone else would be in jail for it...

No, I think you're using invalid data. No way is the vaccine death rate that high - as far as I can discover no death has yet been definitely attributed to the vaccine by any reputable investigator. And Covid is NOT just another flu-like virus; it's much worse.

Everyone I know in my town (and church) is dead keen to get the vaccine (if they haven't already). 10% of the local population have now had a dose. So far just one person I know has had anything worse than the standard sore arm / fluey symptoms - and even he was better within a few hours. But everyone knows someone who has died of Covid. It would if anything be attempted murder to withhold the vaccine.

 

[Cristo Rei]

No, I think you're using invalid data

The data is from the CDC. What more validation did u want...

No way is the vaccine death rate that high - as far as I can discover no death has yet been definitely attributed to the vaccine by any reputable investigator.

So your changing your approach and decided to lie now... No one will die from these vaccines, no one will get injured, step on up its safe... Ok then

Everyone I know in my town (and church) is dead keen to get the vaccine (if they haven't already). 10% of the local population have now had a dose. So far just one person I know has had anything worse than the standard sore arm / fluey symptoms - and even he was better within a few hours. But everyone knows someone who has died of Covid.

Now your using your subjective experience as an argument...
Didn't u say u were a retired doctor? Then u should know that your testimony is just that, an anecdotal testimony.
Im not sure if you're after sympathy but u showed no interest in my bad experience with drugs so I'm not really inclined to care much about your experience either...

U wanna hear mine... I know nobody who has died from covid, I know nobody that has even had covid.
Our hospitals are empty yet we're locked down, a city of 5 million people, because of 5 cases. FIVE CASES

I live in a working-class area and everyone has been devastated by these stupid restrictions... Unemployment, homelessness (myself included), all kinds of mental issues and suicides, middle-aged healthy people not old sick ones

We all have our testimonies. It doesn't change the facts.
This virus has a fatality rate of 2%, like the flu. It has all the symptoms as the flu and flu have miraculously gone...
There is no evidence at all of a pandemic, only media heads flapping...
In fact, the data we do have shows fewer total deaths last year than on average...
So why exactly haven't I been allowed to work?
Why exactly have I been forced out of home?
Why exactly am I living out of a vehicle?
Why exactly are people I know being driven to suicide???

It would if anything be attempted murder to withhold the vaccine.

Excuse me strawman but that's not what I said at all. I never said to withhold the vaccine...
My argument is that selling it without the appropriate warning is criminal... The possible adverse reaction must be given.
I don't know if u support forced vaccines cos that's just evil.

U didn't touch on exemption from liability either... I wonder why...