For free will believers out there

[Cooper]

Yes One God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Son now is no longer on earth and had ascended back to heaven where He with the Father, and sent the Holy Spirit to the world, who make His dwelling among the children of God.

Tong
R2440

While being One omnipresent Spirit.
.

 

[Truther]

What I said in my post does not say in any way, shape, or form that God is not all knowing, or not powerful etc.

<<<Is there something that God cannot do?>>>

God is able to do any and all things.

Tong
R2431

Even transcending time?

For example, could God, which can do anything, observe our conversation before the world was created?

 

[Brakelite]

Why? Is truth in scriptures true because it satisfies and conforms with man’s reasoning and thinking? Or is truth in scriptures true because God says so? My position is that truth in scriptures is true because God says so.

Tong
R2439

I agree. But truth also conforms with language and common sense.

 

[Truther]

Not because some pastor said that, proves what you suspect or even accuse of modern translations, of Greek dictionaries and lexicons.

Tong
R2432

I am just making you aware of your explicit trust in extra biblical commentary of post seminary students that in most cases, cannot even tell us the plan of salvation.

You surrender your KJV to them for quackery and dissection.

Those that trust them over the Bible quote from them for "clarification".

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

<<<You just think you can have it both ways, which shows just how twisted you are. >>>

Just shows what words can come from a person, even those who preach what to them is God’s words. The following scriptures comes to kind, Jesus speaking:

Matthew 12:34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

<<<So what is it you believe Tong, do you believe the Word is God,>>>

You still asking what I believe? Then it means you haven’t really understood what I said? Let me tell you again then by answering your questions and hope that you will finally understand.

Yes, I believe that the Word was God, as scriptures says so.

<<<, and it was God who beame flesh(human), >>>

Yes, as scriptures says so.

<<< or, do you believe the Word is, the Only Begotten Son of God and it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human).>>>

Yes, as scriptures says so.

<<<You're saying and that it's was both God and the Only Begotten Son of God that the Word is both God and the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human)>>>

No. Perhaps, any natural man will have that kind of reasoning and thinking regarding what I said scriptures say about Jesus Christ.

The scriptures is not speaking of God and the Son of God and the Word spoken by apostle John as two beings. For God, while one being, is spoken in scriptures as the person of the Father who is heaven, and as the person of the Word or the Son who have come into the world and became flesh, and as the person of the Holy Spirit who descended upon the man Jesus and who now dwells in every child of God. The scriptures also speaks of the name (not names) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

I wonder if you have considered what scriptures says for example, about God that He is the King of Israel and is the first and the last, and what scriptures said and testified of the person of Jesus, that He is the King of Israel, and is the first and the last.

Apparently, not all men come to see that even while they could clearly read those in scriptures. Why is that, I asked. Scriptures gives the answer through apostle Paul, saying that such as are the things of the Spirit of God are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

Tong
R2433

You did say both God and the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word which shows how twisted you are and how unreasonable you are I will not be answering any more of your posts Tong

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What I said in my post does not say in any way, shape, or form that God is not all knowing, or not powerful etc.

<<<Is there something that God cannot do?>>>

God is able to do any and all things.

Even transcending time?

For example, could God, which can do anything, observe our conversation before the world was created?

Yes He could.

Tong
R2441

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Why? Is truth in scriptures true because it satisfies and conforms with man’s reasoning and thinking? Or is truth in scriptures true because God says so? My position is that truth in scriptures is true because God says so.

I agree. But truth also conforms with language and common sense.

It may or may not conform with man’s reasoning and thinking.

Tong
R2442

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Not because some pastor said that, proves what you suspect or even accuse of modern translations, of Greek dictionaries and lexicons.

I am just making you aware of your explicit trust in extra biblical commentary of post seminary students that in most cases, cannot even tell us the plan of salvation.

You surrender your KJV to them for quackery and dissection.

Those that trust them over the Bible quote from them for "clarification".

Extra biblical commentary, no. I trust the words of God above and over all else’s words.

Tong
R2443

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<You just think you can have it both ways, which shows just how twisted you are. >>>

Just shows what words can come from a person, even those who preach what to them is God’s words. The following scriptures comes to kind, Jesus speaking:

Matthew 12:34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Matthew 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

<<<So what is it you believe Tong, do you believe the Word is God,>>>

You still asking what I believe? Then it means you haven’t really understood what I said? Let me tell you again then by answering your questions and hope that you will finally understand.

Yes, I believe that the Word was God, as scriptures says so.

<<<, and it was God who beame flesh(human), >>>

Yes, as scriptures says so.

<<< or, do you believe the Word is, the Only Begotten Son of God and it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human).>>>

Yes, as scriptures says so.

<<<You're saying and that it's was both God and the Only Begotten Son of God that the Word is both God and the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh(human)>>>

No. Perhaps, any natural man will have that kind of reasoning and thinking regarding what I said scriptures say about Jesus Christ.

The scriptures is not speaking of God and the Son of God and the Word spoken by apostle John as two beings. For God, while one being, is spoken in scriptures as the person of the Father who is heaven, and as the person of the Word or the Son who have come into the world and became flesh, and as the person of the Holy Spirit who descended upon the man Jesus and who now dwells in every child of God. The scriptures also speaks of the name (not names) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

I wonder if you have considered what scriptures says for example, about God that He is the King of Israel and is the first and the last, and what scriptures said and testified of the person of Jesus, that He is the King of Israel, and is the first and the last.

Apparently, not all men come to see that even while they could clearly read those in scriptures. Why is that, I asked. Scriptures gives the answer through apostle Paul, saying that such as are the things of the Spirit of God are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

You did say both God and the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word which shows how twisted you are and how unreasonable you are I will not be answering any more of your posts Tong

As you wish.

And I suspect it’s your way of evading the truth that Jesus Christ is the King of Israel and is the first and the last. Why? Because it’s the nth time you have not even said a word in response. Well,....I am not surprised. For up to this point, no one here who denies that Jesus Christ is God had addressed that.

Tong
R2444

 

[Cooper]

You did say both God and the Only Begotten Son of God is the Word which shows how twisted you are and how unreasonable you are I will not be answering any more of your posts Tong

There is only one God.

The ONE God who is spirit created the heavens and the earth and He came among us.

Jesus is that One God made visible in the flesh.
.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

There is only one God.

The ONE God who is spirit created the heavens and the earth and He came among us.

Jesus is that One God made visible in the flesh.
.

At John 1:1 it tells us in part that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God. So since at John 1:14 it says the Word was made flesh it can't be God who was made flesh since the 1st part of John 1:1 says not that the Word is God but that the Word was with God. The last part of John 1:1 doesn't contradict the first part.

At John 1:1 the context lays the groundwork for accurate understanding. The King James Version says, “The Word was with God.” Someone who is “with” another person cannot be the same as that other person. In agreement with this, the Journal of Biblical Literature, edited by Jesuit Joseph A. Fitzmyer, notes that if the latter part of John 1:1 were interpreted to mean “the” God, this “would then contradict the preceding clause,” which says that the Word was with God.
So Jesus wasn't God in the flesh.
Jesus is exactly who the scriptures say he is which say Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. John 3:16 says that God sent his Only Begotten Son to the World of mankind it doesn't say that God sent himself. Even Jesus said he was the Son of God, he never said he was God. In fact at John 20:17 Jesus tells us that he has a Father and God who is our Father and God.

 

[Truther]

Yes He could.

Tong
R2441

Amen, so God and His human(begotten) son hung out before God created the world by and for him.

 

[Truther]

Extra biblical commentary, no. I trust the words of God above and over all else’s words.

Tong
R2443

Good, then I advise you to drop the endless "Greek" redefinition stuff and become sola scriptura.

 

[Brakelite]

It may or may not conform with man’s reasoning and thinking.

Tong
R2442

The scriptures tell us that God gave us His only begotten Son. It isn't human reasoning that we should understand this as plain language. It isn't metaphorical or some spiritual analogy. If God tells us He gave us His Son, we must accept that He had a Son to give. We could reason that this is not literal. We could reason about all manner of obtuse and illogical contrivances in order to suit our ideas. But God gave us language. The Father/Son paradigm is as old as creation. There is no good sound or logical reason to believe that in contrary to the scriptures, there are three Co-equal Co-eternal Co-substantial perfect distinct beings each one having self sustaining life in themselves. This is a description of three gods. Not one God.
The scriptures you commended me for posting reveal one God... The Father... And His Son who is the express image of His Father. Being the only begotten Son is all the credential He needs to be called God. He has all the same attributes as the Father. But they were given... They were His inheritance. But it doesn't make the Son any less God.
There is no need to question or second guess the above. The Bible doesn't tell us how the Father beget a Son... Or when. There are many things the Bible doesn't explain. There is no need to deny what the Bible does reveal on account of our not understanding what the Bible doesn't reveal.

 

[Tong2020]

There is only one God.

The ONE God who is spirit created the heavens and the earth and He came among us.

Jesus is that One God made visible in the flesh.
.

The one God who is the King of Israel and is the first and the last, who has manifested Himself to the world, made visible in the flesh, the exact and express image of Himself, in no other who is Jesus Christ.

Tong
R2447

 

[Tong2020]

At John 1:1 it tells us in part that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God. So since at John 1:14 it says the Word was made flesh it can't be God who was made flesh since the 1st part of John 1:1 says not that the Word is God but that the Word was with God. The last part of John 1:1 doesn't contradict the first part.

At John 1:1 the context lays the groundwork for accurate understanding. The King James Version says, “The Word was with God.” Someone who is “with” another person cannot be the same as that other person. In agreement with this, the Journal of Biblical Literature, edited by Jesuit Joseph A. Fitzmyer, notes that if the latter part of John 1:1 were interpreted to mean “the” God, this “would then contradict the preceding clause,” which says that the Word was with God.
So Jesus wasn't God in the flesh.
Jesus is exactly who the scriptures say he is which say Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. John 3:16 says that God sent his Only Begotten Son to the World of mankind it doesn't say that God sent himself. Even Jesus said he was the Son of God, he never said he was God. In fact at John 20:17 Jesus tells us that he has a Father and God who is our Father and God.

<<<At John 1:1 it tells us in part that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God. >>>

Even your own NWT Bible would refute you.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.”

<<<So since at John 1:14 it says the Word was made flesh>>>

Even your own NWT Bible would refute you.

“So the Word became flesh,...”

<<<Someone who is “with” another person cannot be the same as that other person.>>>

Says who? By you. Using what? Human reasoning and thinking, not scriptures.

For scriptures, which refutes that very reasoning and thinking, revealed that:

....Jesus is the King of Israel and is the first and the last.

....God is the King of Israel and is the first and the last.

By that, the Holy Spirit, through scriptures is clearly telling me that Jesus is God.

Tong
R2448

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Yes He could.

Amen, so God and His human(begotten) son hung out before God created the world by and for him.

You can say that. However, the question is, in that transcendent experience of God, what do you say regarding Jesus?

Tong
R2449

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Extra biblical commentary, no. I trust the words of God above and over all else’s words.

Good, then I advise you to drop the endless "Greek" redefinition stuff and become sola scriptura.

I am sola scriptura. And words make up scriptures. The gospel concerning Jesus Christ was written in scriptures by the inspired writers using not English words, but using Greek words. So, at least for those who do not know Greek words like me, a translation is necessary, at least to English words, so that the scriptures would be intelligible to me. There are many English translations. And KJV is but one of them. But which of them better translates a particular verse?

Tong
R2450

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It may or may not conform with man’s reasoning and thinking.

The scriptures tell us that God gave us His only begotten Son. It isn't human reasoning that we should understand this as plain language. It isn't metaphorical or some spiritual analogy. If God tells us He gave us His Son, we must accept that He had a Son to give. We could reason that this is not literal. We could reason about all manner of obtuse and illogical contrivances in order to suit our ideas. But God gave us language. The Father/Son paradigm is as old as creation. There is no good sound or logical reason to believe that in contrary to the scriptures, there are three Co-equal Co-eternal Co-substantial perfect distinct beings each one having self sustaining life in themselves. This is a description of three gods. Not one God.
The scriptures you commended me for posting reveal one God... The Father... And His Son who is the express image of His Father. Being the only begotten Son is all the credential He needs to be called God. He has all the same attributes as the Father. But they were given... They were His inheritance. But it doesn't make the Son any less God.
There is no need to question or second guess the above. The Bible doesn't tell us how the Father beget a Son... Or when. There are many things the Bible doesn't explain. There is no need to deny what the Bible does reveal on account of our not understanding what the Bible doesn't reveal.

<<<If God tells us He gave us His Son, we must accept that He had a Son to give.>>>

Yes. And if God tells us He had a Son, we must accept that God is a Father.

Scriptures says God is eternal. My question to you is, is God an eternal Father to His Son?

<<<The Bible doesn't tell us how the Father beget a Son... Or when.>>>

The scriptures speaks of the only begotten Son of God, who is Jesus Christ. So we understand that God had begotten Jesus Christ. I’d like you to consider what it means to be begotten.

The scriptures also speaks of other sons of God. And they were not begotten. They could have only been created. So, that makes to be begotten different from to be created. The question is, what does it mean to be the begotten Son of God?

<<<But it doesn't make the Son any less God.>>>

But consider what scriptures says, if at all you will.

Jesus is the King of Israel and is the first and the last.

God is the King of Israel and is the first and the last.

What does that make of Jesus?

Tong
R2451

 

[Wrangler]

There are many English translations. And KJV is but one of them. But which of them better translates a particular verse?

I have found that I do not always prefer the same translation. Depending on the verse, different translations speak more to me than others.