For free will believers out there

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So, He is a false god?

Why then believe in Him?

Jhn 6:47, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

See justbyfaith how you don't reply to Philippians 2:5,6 but just quote part of what I said. Answer Philippians 2:5,6 Justbyfaith show me how you will twist it to mean something other than what it says. There's nothing in the scriptures of Philippians 2:5,6 that proves that it says Jesus is God. Please show me how you will twist it out of context.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your understanding is skewed because if it.

Not a chance. James 2:19 tells me clearly that there is one God; and I can bank on the fact that my understanding is on the money with holy scriptures because I believe that word.

 

[justbyfaith]

See justbyfaith how you don't reply to Philippians 2:5,6 but just quote part of what I said. Answer Philippians 2:5,6 Justbyfaith show me how you will twist it to mean something other than what it says. There's nothing in the scriptures of Philippians 2:5,6 that proves that it says Jesus is God. Please show me how you will twist it out of context.

And again, you failed to answer the question.

If Jesus is a true God, then He is the only true God.

If He is not the only true God, then He is a false god.

Which one is it?

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 6:47?

 

[Cooper]

If they are all God, they are the same God; for there is only one God (James 2:19).

There is only One God, as we all know. The trouble is people have their own view of God, or they even have a different god altogether. Jesus told the Jews their God was the devil in John 8:44. Our understanding, yours and mine, is that the One Creator God became like us for a season so that He might open blind eyes and lead people into the light and away from the multiplicity of false gods, as Paul tried to do when in Athens. That task, when confronted with the cults, seems sadly to be impossible.

Jesus said to let the blind lead the blind, and that is what I am tempted to do. But when false teachers are allowed to proselytize on Christian forums, the Word of God is put into jeopardy and that worries me because they have no intention of changing.
.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

And again, you failed to answer the question.

If Jesus is a true God, then He is the only true God.

If He is not the only true God, then He is a false god.

Which one is it?

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 6:47?

You refuse to answer me about Philippians 2:5,6

 

[Grailhunter]

And again, you failed to answer the question.

If Jesus is a true God, then He is the only true God.

If He is not the only true God, then He is a false god.

Which one is it?

Do you believe what Jesus said in John 6:47?

What you need, Neon Lights! LOL
The issue is the conundrum in the NT. The incongruency between statements and also those compared to the storyline.
The Church doctrine...as in Roman...resolved several problematic arguments by declaring the three Gods were one. It did silence some arguments particularly since it was do or die.
Of course, as pointed out...the word Trinity does not appear in the Bible. It is a campaign slogan.
The Bible eventually was modified to support this doctrine. That modification known as the Johannine comma addition.
But Bible also indicates that Christ was the creator God...which invalidates the Apostle's Creed. Of course that also implies that Christ existed during the Old Testament. But by the time the NT was written, the OT had already been written and Christ was not a player in the OT. And God the Father several times made it clear He was the only God...no other name.
In the NT...with the one God formula how does this work?
In one instance Christ is asked for a favor that He explains that it is not His to give. If not His....who? Another person?
In another instance talking about the end of time, Christ explains that only His Father know the time when that will occur. Is He keeping a secret from Himself?
Christ explains that He does the will of the Father....that is a conundrum in itself. Is He doing His own will? It absolutely nullifies the statement.
Then you have the Father sends Christ verses....how do you send yourself?
Then you have the Holy Spirit...But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. So WOW! Is the Holy Spirit proceeds from Himself? Does He bear witness of Himself?
When Christ is baptized, God proclaims that He is well pleased with His Son....Is Christ saying that? Is He well pleased with Himself? Did Christ do a ventriloquist trick and throw His voice up in the air to edify Himself? It don't seem likely.
As the NT progresses Christ and the Apostle discuss that the Father gives various or all authorities to Christ. How do you give authority to yourself? Didn't you have it to begin with?
Christ testifies to the fact that the Father is greater than He....How are you greater than yourself?
God so loved the world that HE gave His only begotten self? How can you begot yourself? How can you be a Son to yourself?
God is the one that came up with the designations of Father and Son so we would understand. The one God formula throws everything off. How are we to understand Father and Son as the same person?
There are dozens of the MY Father scriptures where Christ is referring to His Father in Heaven.
How many times does Christ have a conversation with His Father...sometimes asking questions...was He talking to Himself? Was He asking Himself questions? Was He getting permission from Himself?
Christ talks about ascending to His Father and eventually does just that...Does He ascend to Himself?
In the end the one God concept has the Romans nailing the Trinity to the cross. And then who is Christ crying out to on the cross?
After Christ resurrected He tells Mary Magdalene not to touch Him because He had not ascended to His Father yet...How does that work?
Then you have the sitting on the right hand of the Father....how can you sit on the right hand of yourself?
Eventually Christ Himself explains the one concept, but no one pays any attention to that.

I believe in God the Father...Yahweh I believe in God the Son...Yeshua...I believe in God the Holy Spirit whos name has remained secret. I believe they are united, but not as one. Just as individual as we are.

You find a few scriptures that are in complete contradiction to dozens of other scriptures as well as the entire storyline and you disregard everything else and focus your beliefs on that....this is the number one way that weird beliefs are formed.

Look at the Calvinists, they focus on scriptures about predestination and develop a religion that portrays God with all the characteristics of Satan. The Jehovah's Witnesses find a few scriptures that seem to deny the deity of Christ and find some confusing scriptures about Hell and say it does not exist, and from that make a religion from it. Of course they cheated because they wrote their own bible. It is very important to look at the big picture.

This is the short version, the full explanation is in Grailhunter's Corner.
Grailhunter’s Corner

 

[justbyfaith]

There is only One God, as we all know. The trouble is people have their own view of God, or they even have a different god altogether. Jesus told the Jews their God was the devil in John 8:48. Our understanding, yours and mine, is that the One Creator God became like us for a season so that He might open blind eyes and lead people into the light and away from the multiplicity of false gods, as Paul tried to do when in Athens. That task, when confronted with the cults, seems sadly to be impossible.

Jesus said to let the blind lead the blind, and that is what I am tempted to do. But when false teachers are allowed to proselytize on Christian forums, the Word of God is put into jeopardy and that worries me.
.

I think that freedom of speech is the issue here that must not be compromised.

God isn't fearful of false doctrines; He is perfectly able to deal with them as long as the saints remain diligent in refuting such things with the word of the Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Trinity is the truth of holy scripture, as can be seen in my thread on the Trinity.

True Trinity. (posts #1-#6)

 

[Cooper]

I think that freedom of speech is the issue here that must not be compromised.

God isn't fearful of false doctrines; He is perfectly able to deal with them as long as the saints remain diligent in refuting such things with the word of the Lord.

The question is, are those who are weak in the faith, able to withstand the onslaught?
.

 

[justbyfaith]

The question is, are those who are weak in the faith, able to withstand the onslaught?
.

It is a sacrifice that has to be made.

Because some here, who preach sound doctrine, are under attack and are in danger of being banned because some who do not know their Bibles well enough are calling on the moderators to ban them for preaching doctrines that are faithful, though offensive to the people in question.

Therefore those who are strong in the faith must be vigilant and use scripture to refute the claims of some of those who are preaching false doctrine.

I find it faithful that if someone is preaching the truth, those who are of the truth will believe him over and above those who may be preaching lies according to the pattern of this world (see 1 John 4:4-6, John 15:20).

So, for those who are undecided, it is a matter of convincing them of the truth that we are preaching by utilizing holy scripture to make our proofs.

Because personally, I am preaching to those who believe that the kjv Bible is the word of the Lord. People beyond that realm of belief are my secondary audience.

 

[Cooper]

It is a sacrifice that has to be made.

Because some here, who preach sound doctrine, are under attack and are in danger of being banned because some who do not know their Bibles well enough are calling on the moderators to ban them for preaching doctrines that are faithful, though offensive to the people in question.

Therefore those who are strong in the faith must be vigilant and use scripture to refute the claims of some of those who are preaching false doctrine.

I find it faithful that if someone is preaching the truth, those who are of the truth will believe him over and above those who may be preaching lies according to the pattern of this world (see 1 John 4:4-6, John 15:20).

So, for those who are undecided, it is a matter of convincing them of the truth that we are preaching by utilizing holy scripture to make our proofs.

Because personally, I am preaching to those who believe that the kjv Bible is the word of the Lord. People
beyond that realm of belief are my secondary audience.

So if the sects are calling for people to be banned, then all it needs is for a JW, a Calvenist, or similar to be made a moderator, and we all get banned. What a dreadful situation.
.

 

[Grailhunter]

So if the sects are calling for people to be banned, then all it needs is for a JW, a Calvenist, or similar to be made a moderator, and we all get banned. What a dreadful situation.
.

LOL Give the Mods some credit...They are not going to put one of them in that position. But a Voodoo mod would be entertaining. All that they would have to do if someone was being a pain, is stick a doll with a pin and they would get the point.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You bringing up Philippians chapter 2 trying to prove what you believe is the diety of Jesus Christ, shows just how far you'll go to twist scripture to prove what you believe.
You see the Watchtower, the Jehovah Witnesses have always said that Jesus is a god, not that he is the True God. Philippians 2:5,6 is saying Jesus is a god, not that he is The Only True God. Why, because these scriptures in Philippians 2:5,6 is telling us to think the same way that Jesus thought who although he was in God's form he never thought himself to be equal to God. These scriptures are teaching us to be humble by following Jesus example of humbleness.
You see how this scripture says that Jesus was in Gods form. That's not saying he is God, that's saying he is in a form like the True God. Also this scripture is saying that although the Only Begotten Son of God is in Gods form he didn't think himself equal to The True God. Again Jesus isn't saying he is God.

See Barney this is where you veer way off track! If jesus is a god, and He is not the true God then He is a false God. The bible say8s there is only one true god- that means all the rest are false!

Yes Philippians 2 speaks about humility but here is why we should be humble:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

New International Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

New Living Translation
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Study Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Berean Literal Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

King James Bible
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

New King James Version
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

New American Standard Bible
who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

NASB 1995
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

NASB 1977
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Amplified Bible
who, although He existed in the form and unchanging essence of God [as One with Him, possessing the fullness of all the divine attributes—the entire nature of deity], did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped or asserted [as if He did not already possess it, or was afraid of losing it];

Christian Standard Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

American Standard Version
who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Contemporary English Version
Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

English Revised Version
who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God,

Good News Translation
He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to remain equal with God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.

International Standard Version
In God's own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping.

Literal Standard Version
who, being in the form of God, thought [it] not something to be seized to be equal to God,

NET Bible
who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,

New Heart English Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Weymouth New Testament
Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.

World English Bible
who, existing in the form of God, didn't consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Young's Literal Translation
who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,

Anderson New Testament
who, being in the form of God, did not think it an act of robbery to be equal with God;

Godbey New Testament
who, being in the form of God, thought it not usurpation to be equal with God,

Haweis New Testament
who being in the form of God counted it no usurpation to claim equality with God:

Mace New Testament
who tho' he was the image of God, did not affect to appear with divine majesty, but divested himself thereof,

Weymouth New Testament
Although from the beginning He had the nature of God He did not reckon His equality with God a treasure to be tightly grasped.

Worrell New Testament
Who, existing originally in the form of God, accounted it not a prize to he equal with God.

Worsley New Testament
who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be as God.

all these translations (some I abhor) all say very different from the New World (mis) translation

6 who, although he was existing in Gods form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God

Form is "morphe" which means the shape or appearance of a thing! So Jesus existed in the shape or form of God! Why? Because He is God the Son.

YOU fail to recognize that the term "God" refers to a person or to an essence or nature (deity)

Once again the One (echad in Hebrew) God is seen in three persons, the Father, The Son and the Spirit!

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

In Hebrewe for this epistle- it reads "Now Jehovah is the Spirit...." The definite article appears in the manuscript, so you cannot say God is A spirit. He is the Spirit

The Father is God but is no t the Son or the Spirit.

The Son is God but is not the Father nor the SPirit.

The Spirit is God but is not the Father or the Son.

This is the bible as written. Anything else is a lie!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

First of all philippians 2:5,6 is teaching us to be humble like our greatest example, The Only Begotten Son of God Jesus who was in Gods form but he didn't think himself equal to God.
Now whether you believe it or not, that's your choice, but I don't believe the scriptures saying the Only Begotten Son of God is in God's form is the same as being God himelf. I would have to ask myself why would the Only Begotten Son of God think himself to be subject or inferior to anyone if the scriptures are trying to teach people that he is God. Are the scriptures trying to teach us that the True God has someone he's subject to or answers to? God answers to noone is subject to noone. All this diety of Jesus that you're trying to teach people has been a debate of the relationship between God and the Only Begotten Son of God that's been going on for centuries. It called the Trinity Doctrine. This doctrine didn't exist however for the first three centuries after the death of the Apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ.

Justin Martyr, who died about 165 C.E., called the prehuman Jesus a created angel who is “other than the God who made all things.” He said that Jesus was inferior to God and “never did anything except what the Creator . . . willed him to do and say.”
Justin regarded the Son as distinct from God, and inferior to him: distinct, not, in the modern sense, as forming one of three hypostases, or persons, but distinct in essence and nature; having a real, substantial, individual subsistence, separate from God, from whom he derived all his powers and titles; being constituted under him, and subject in all things to his will.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology states: In “The N[ew] T[estament] The Bible lacks the express declaration that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of equal essence’ [said Protestant theologian Karl Barth].”

Origen, who died about 250 C.E., said that “the Father and Son are two substances . . . two things as to their essence,” and that “compared with the Father, [the Son] is a very small light.”

Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the prehuman Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the “One true and only God,” who is “supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.”

Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: “The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent.” He also said: “There was a time when the Son was not. . . . Before all things, God was alone.”

Summing up the historical evidence, Alvan Lamson says in The Church of the First Three Centuries: “The modern popular doctrine of the Trinity . . . derives no support from the language of Justin [Martyr]: and this observation may be extended to all the ante-Nicene Fathers; that is, to all Christian writers for the first three centuries after the birth of Christ. It is true, they speak of the Father, Son, and holy Spirit, but not as co-equal, not as one numerical essence, not as Three in One, in any sense now admitted by Trinitarians. The very reverse is the fact.”

Where did this complex Trinity teaching originate? The Christian Century, in its May 20-27, 1998, issue, quotes a pastor who acknowledges that the Trinity is “a teaching of the church rather than a teaching of Jesus.” Even though the Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus, he says it is consistent with what he taught?

However Jesus taught his disciples to pray: “Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.” Our heavenly Father, whose name is Jehovah, is described in the Bible as being superior to his Son. For example, Jehovah is “from everlasting to everlasting.” But the Bible says that Jesus is “the firstborn of every creature or the firstborn of creation,” depending on what Bible you use. That Jehovah is greater than Jesus, Jesus himself taught when he said: “My Father is greater than I.” (Matthew 6:9; Psalm 90:1, 2; Colossians 1:15; John 14:28) Yet, the Trinity doctrine holds that the Father and the Son are “equally God.”

If Jehovah and Jesus were the same, how could one of them be aware of things of which the other was not? Jesus, for instance, said regarding the time of the world’s judgment: “Concerning that day or hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father.”—Mark 13:32.

Martin Werner, as professor at the University of Bern, Switzerland, observed: “Wherever in the New Testament the relationship of Jesus to God, the Father, is brought into consideration, whether with reference to his appearance as a man or to his Messianic status, it is conceived of and represented categorically as subordination.” Clearly, what Jesus and the early Christians believed is far different from the Trinity teaching of churches today. From where, then, did this teaching come?

 

[justbyfaith]

The Father is God but is no t the Son or the Spirit.

The Son is God but is not the Father nor the SPirit.

The Spirit is God but is not the Father or the Son.

This is the bible as written. Anything else is a lie!

Actually, the Son shall be given the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

Which is something that simply would not happen if He is not the Father.

Isa 42:8, I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Isa 48:11, For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Actually, the Son shall be given the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

Which is something that simply would not happen if He is not the Father.

Isa 42:8, I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Isa 48:11, For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

False conclusion on your part!

To say Jesus is His own Father is to say He used sleight of hand at His Baptism, and He was intentionally deceptive when He said He was going back to His god and Father. also He is deceptive when in 1 cor. 15 , when death is finally conquered He cedes the kingdom back to His Father.

YOu would say He is giving it back to HImself? That is foolish and no one can draw that conclusion!

When God said He would not give His glory to another- another also means anyone else!

You also forget that Elohim and Adonai are plural nouns.

You also forget in teh shema that the word one is the one used of "compound one".

also JOhn 1:1

John 1:1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to you this should read : "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with HImself, and the Word was Himself."

 

[justbyfaith]

False conclusion on your part!

To say Jesus is His own Father is to say He used sleight of hand at His Baptism, and He was intentionally deceptive when He said He was going back to His god and Father. also He is deceptive when in 1 cor. 15 , when death is finally conquered He cedes the kingdom back to His Father.

YOu would say He is giving it back to HImself? That is foolish and no one can draw that conclusion!

When God said He would not give His glory to another- another also means anyone else!

You also forget that Elohim and Adonai are plural nouns.

You also forget in teh shema that the word one is the one used of "compound one".

also JOhn 1:1

John 1:1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to you this should read : "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with HImself, and the Word was Himself."

There is no contradiction.

The Father inhabits eternity; and it is the nature of eternity that if anyone dwells there, they dwell there eternally even if they were descend out of eternity into time.

Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit and of the same essence.

God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24)

God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

Therefore if Jesus is God, He is the one Spirit and therefore the same Spirit as the Father. And He is God (Hebrews 1:8-9).

The distinction between the Father and the Son being in that the Son is here in flesh and the Father is an eternal Spirit without flesh; yet they are the same Spirit.

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The Person who inhabits eternity and the Person who is come in the flesh are the same Person; yet they are distinct from each other in such a manner that they can exist side-by-side. Jesus sits at His own right hand; a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of Him who is the eternal Spirit; Himself being that same eternal Spirit dwelling in human flesh.

It has to do with the spatial difference between eternity and time.

If you think about what it might mean for someone to move from eternity to time and then back again to eternity, you might see how the same eternal God can exist right next to Himself in that same eternity.

 

[Cooper]

There is no contradiction.

The Father inhabits eternity; and it is the nature of eternity that if anyone dwells there, they dwell there eternally even if they were descend out of eternity into time.

Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit and of the same essence.

God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24)

God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

Therefore if Jesus is God, He is the one Spirit and therefore the same Spirit as the Father. And He is God (Hebrews 1:8-9).

The distinction between the Father and the Son being in that the Son is here in flesh and the Father is an eternal Spirit without flesh; yet they are the same Spirit.

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The Person who inhabits eternity and the Person who is come in the flesh are the same Person; yet they are distinct from each other in such a manner that they can exist side-by-side. Jesus sits at His own right hand; a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of Him who is the eternal Spirit; Himself being that same eternal Spirit dwelling in human flesh.

It has to do with the spatial difference between eternity and time.

If you think about what it might mean for someone to move from eternity to time and then back again to eternity, you might see how the same eternal God can exist right next to Himself in that same eternity.

The flesh is of the earth, but the Spirit is eternal, and in that respect Father and Son are One.

Sorry jbf, the above was intended for RN. I do not know how that happened. I could delete this post and copy it to RN, but that is like talking to a brick wall. I would rather talk to a living tree than that. A tree has an afterlife, and although we would not recognise it as a tree in the afterlife, I want to be with Jesus like he was before He came down from heaven.
.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is no contradiction.

The Father inhabits eternity; and it is the nature of eternity that if anyone dwells there, they dwell there eternally even if they were descend out of eternity into time.

Jesus and the Father are the same Spirit and of the same essence.

God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24)

God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

Therefore if Jesus is God, He is the one Spirit and therefore the same Spirit as the Father. And He is God (Hebrews 1:8-9).

The distinction between the Father and the Son being in that the Son is here in flesh and the Father is an eternal Spirit without flesh; yet they are the same Spirit.

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:14).

The Person who inhabits eternity and the Person who is come in the flesh are the same Person; yet they are distinct from each other in such a manner that they can exist side-by-side. Jesus sits at His own right hand; a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of Him who is the eternal Spirit; Himself being that same eternal Spirit dwelling in human flesh.

It has to do with the spatial difference between eternity and time.

If you think about what it might mean for someone to move from eternity to time and then back again to eternity, you might see how the same eternal God can exist right next to Himself in that same eternity.

I think in all that word spaghetti, you cited that the one God exists in three persons. Saying the same thing I did in a more complicated way, that half of which you can't possibly know for certain.

 

[Cooper]

False conclusion on your part!

To say Jesus is His own Father is to say He used sleight of hand at His Baptism, and He was intentionally deceptive when He said He was going back to His god and Father. also He is deceptive when in 1 cor. 15 , when death is finally conquered He cedes the kingdom back to His Father.

YOu would say He is giving it back to HImself? That is foolish and no one can draw that conclusion!

When God said He would not give His glory to another- another also means anyone else!

You also forget that Elohim and Adonai are plural nouns.

You also forget in teh shema that the word one is the one used of "compound one".

also JOhn 1:1

John 1:1
King James Version

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

According to you this should read : "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with HImself, and the Word was Himself."

...............In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God.
.