Fear God or Presume acceptance

[Episkopos]

No the pharisee is the one who uses His works to justify Himself, seeing to be doing cleaning the outside. You should read your bible. No one can justfy sin, but than few understand what Christ has done too and seems christianity wants to condemn teh world and them,selves with it.

So who is lazier...the one who has to work for being able to justify himself?...or else the one who does exactly the same justification of self...but this time he is too lazy to work...but just uses his own beliefs to do the same thing? Either way it is the same hypocrisy and self-justification. The one is justifying himself because of his works...and the other is justifying himself because of his beliefs. Same outcome. So it is...you justify yourself by your works...but I have it much easier...I justify myself by my beliefs. So we have the new version of hypocrisy that seems superior to the old. From bad law practice we have progressed to bad grace practice.

So then modern day religious Pharisees are even more spoiled than the Judean ones...because although they both practice the same hypocrisy...the modern ones are more spoiled and lazy.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Then how can you say that you can become a slave of sin, if you are now a slave of righteousness. Did you make yourself a slave to righteousness, or were you made to be a slave to righteousness?

We were slaves to sin, and now we have been purchased by a new Master. Isn't this the teaching of the Bible?

Did you not get the post where I've answered this referring to Peter and a dog returning to his own vomit? I feel you are not understanding me again.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You have confidence in how you live and what you do.
Even you constant - " I get all my prayers answered" ...to me is boasting...not boasting in the LORD as Paul did...but pride in trying to show everyone here how special and spiritual you are.

Yet you keep saying you don't sin.

According to YOU you don't . But that sure looks like you fall short, yet boast in yourself to me and how well you live your christian life.

12 "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise."

God is the only one who can measure how well we are doing.


I can only boast in Knowing all He has done for me..and His keeping power however many times I may slip and fall.

Your accusation is not valid, no more than Satan's constant accusing of the brethren before God.

Your verse in 2 Corinthians 9, is not the blanket foundation you think it is. That verse means that if some here on the forum say "we will always sin while in this body of flesh," that is because they have no power over sin themselves, so it doesn't matter to them that the Bible says the opposite; they believe their experience.

What I was saying that you accused me of boasting was my confirming that the word of God is true (that is boasting in the Lord that He is without error), and my experience proves it, not that my experience is true and the Bible false as the person believes who sins.

 

[marks]

That is deflecting.

That is invalidating.

 

[marks]

Did you not get the post where I've answered this referring to Peter and a dog returning to his own vomit? I feel you are not understanding me again.

So you can just leave your master, the one who purchased you, who owns you, you can just go off on your own?

Not much of a slave!

 

[marks]

Did you not get the post where I've answered this referring to Peter and a dog returning to his own vomit? I feel you are not understanding me again.

The dog returns to its own vomit, and the pig to it's wallow, and the child of God to God.

If you are a dog, you will go back and lick up your vomit. But will you if you are not a dog? Is that what Peter is saying? He's saying each will be true to their nature, to what they are. If you are a slave of sin, then that's what you are. But if you are a slave of righteousness, then That is what you are.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

So you can just leave your master, the one who purchased you, who owns you, you can just go off on your own?

Not much of a slave!

If you choose a new master, then you forfeit the original, and must repent all over again. That is why OSAS is a dangerous doctrine. It is who we belong to at the end that matters.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The dog returns to its own vomit, and the pig to it's wallow, and the child of God to God.

If you are a dog, you will go back and lick up your vomit. But will you if you are not a dog? Is that what Peter is saying? He's saying each will be true to their nature, to what they are. If you are a slave of sin, then that's what you are. But if you are a slave of righteousness, then That is what you are.

Much love!

Read Peter in context. He is referring to a Christian (not an animal) who turns away again to the world.

 

[marks]

So who is lazier...the one who has to work for being able to justify himself?...or else the one who does exactly the same justification of self...but this time he is too lazy to work...but just uses his own beliefs to do the same thing? Either way it is the same hypocrisy and self-justification. The one is justifying himself because of his works...and the other is justifying himself because of his beliefs. Same outcome. So it is...you justify yourself by your works...but I have it much easier...I justify myself by my beliefs. So we have the new version of hypocrisy that seems superior to the old. From bad law practice we have progressed to bad grace practice.

So then modern day religious Pharisees are even more spoiled than the Judean ones...because although they both practice the same hypocrisy...the modern ones are more spoiled and lazy.

By what act are we justified?

There is a clear Biblical answer to this.

 

[mjrhealth]

So who is lazier...the one who has to work for being able to justify himself?...or else the one who does exactly the same justification of self...but this time he is too lazy to work...but just uses his own beliefs to do the same thing? Either way it is the same hypocrisy and self-justification. The one is justifying himself because of his works...and the other is justifying himself because of his beliefs. Same outcome. So it is...you justify yourself by your works...but I have it much easier...I justify myself by my beliefs. So we have the new version of hypocrisy that seems superior to the old. From bad law practice we have progressed to bad grace practice.

So then modern day religious Pharisees are even more spoiled than the Judean ones...because although they both practice the same hypocrisy...the modern ones are more spoiled and lazy.

That depends on whose "work" one is doing, remember Jesus .

Joh_5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

that is the works we are supposed to do, our own, this bit,

Luk 17:9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

account for nought,

but when it comes to.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

well what can one say, people love to boast, Look at me God look at what I did, am I not so good", you know "selfish".

that bit about grace that none shall boast

 

[Episkopos]

By what act are we justified?

There is a clear Biblical answer to this.

We are justified by God only. No one can justify themselves by their works OR their religious beliefs. No man can justify himself for any reason. You have missed the whole message.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We are justified by God only. No one can justify themselves by their works OR their religious beliefs. No man can justify himself for any reason. You have missed the whole message.

At what point is an unbeliever justified? And when sanctified?

cc: @marks

 

[mjrhealth]

That means that if some here says we will always sin while in this body of flesh, that is because they have no power over sin themselves, so it doesn't matter to them that the Bible says the opposite; they believe their experience. What I was saying that you accused me of boasting was my confirming that the word of God is true, and my experience proves it, not that my experience is true and the Bible false as the person believes who sins.

Everyone sins, some just refuse to admit it, seems to many, grace is not sufficient and that need to be seeing to be doing, men love to boast, If you ever bother to ask Jesus to remove a thorn, the only response you will ever get is, " my grace is sufficient for you". Seems we all have thorns to keep us humble so that we have nothing to boast of, except Jesus Christ,
I wist that we where all perfect as He is perfect, but no one is.

Mat_5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

its more than just doing.

 

[marks]

Read Peter in context. He is referring to a Christian (not an animal) who turns away again to the world.

He's telling us why it is these people are that way.

2 Peter 2:9 "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished"

If these dogs who return to their vomit are "the godly", then the Lord isn't very effective at delivering them from temptations.

In a parallelism, "the godly" and "the unjust" are contrasted, making them speaking of the same thing, one in the positive, and one in the negative.

Who are these "unjust" who are being reserved for judgment?

2 Peter 2:10 "But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities."

Them that walk after the flesh. Does this mean children of God who walk after the flesh?

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

These "after the flesh" are not God's children. The contrasts in this chapter show this. There are those who are after the flesh, and those who are after the Spirit. You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF SO BE that the Spirit of God dwell in you.

2 Peter 2:10 "But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities."

They are called "dogs returning to their vomit" because they never were otherwise. That's what they are, so that's what they do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you choose a new master, then you forfeit the original, and must repent all over again. That is why OSAS is a dangerous doctrine. It is who we belong to at the end that matters.

Again, not much to this slavery thing if you can just choose who your master is.

But the whole saved, not, saved again, unsaved again, I do not find that in the Bible.

On again off again is the hallmark of the Law Covenant with Israel.

 

[marks]

At what point is an unbeliever justified? And when sanctified?

cc: @marks

And . . . How. By what are we justified. And what exactly is justification. What changes?

Yes, and when?

Love to look in depth at these question, showing Biblical answers. Love to see some responses with Scripture quotes rather than just making statements. On something so cental to Christianity!

:)

 

[marks]

We are justified by God only. No one can justify themselves by their works OR their religious beliefs. No man can justify himself for any reason. You have missed the whole message.

Who is saying we justify ourselves? Please. Stop trying to ascribe to me things I neither think nor post, that's just not right. Seems to me that you are inventing occassion to accuse.

By what act are we justified?

There is a clear Biblical answer to this.

So then because you respond to something I haven't said or asked or posted, is that to say you have no answer to the question that I did ask?

 

[Episkopos]

At what point is an unbeliever justified?

An unbeliever can only be justified on judgment day. If God deems to have mercy on a non-believer He simply doesn't blot out his name out of the book of life. God will have mercy on whomever He wills. Notice the goodness of God! :) Now of course religious types will have a snit about this kind of mercy. People are NOT very merciful...not as much as God by a long shot.

And when sanctified?

We know we are pleasing to God when He sanctifies us by giving us of His Spirit. But we can only have that kind of walk...in that power (grace) if we cease from sinning. This is a dynamic walk...not a static ticket to heaven as many presume. We must be faithful in our walk to remain in His presence. And His grace gives us that proximity to God.

Sins will ALWAYS separate us from God and grieve the Spirit. So NO ONE can ALWAYS be in the Spirit unless they have attained to the full stature of Christ. So we can go from being sanctified and not being so. Abiding in Christ means we walk in the resurrected perfection of Christ. But very few know about this. Especially in these unbelieving times.

 

[mjrhealth]

You quoted 1 John 5:18 yourself. I recognized it. So does that person commit willful sin or not?

I guess that moment when we get angry with someone,,,,, its not just about doing.

 

[Episkopos]

I wist that we where all perfect as He is perfect, but no one is.

This is to miss the entire New Covenant and the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. So a little off here. But typical of todays' lack of understanding.

Jesus came to bring us the perfect life IN Himself. So all we need to do to partake of His resurrected perfection...is to put on Christ. Easy. Now for a Sunday school lesson. :)

I can't fly...but if I enter into a plane...I can fly higher than any bird!

I can't swim across the ocean but if I get in a ship I can travel across the sea.


I can't stop being weak as a human..having sin ingrained in me. But When I enter into Christ I walk EXACTLY as He did...as perfect as He is perfect. And you can too!...by grace through faith. ....Good news!

Now how many actually can receive the gospel?

Eternal life is a kind of life that is experienced when we believe INTO Christ. And this is a work of God.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes INTO me has everlasting life.