False Teaching: Mary died a virgin. Biblical Proof Mary had children.

[Sigma]

Sigma,

Can you tell me the reason for the prayer

Holy Mary Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
Amen.

???

You could've googled it, if you really wanted to know, and I don't think you do, because when I said you should google what the Catholic Church actually teaches about prayer and confession, etc., you said "Nah." That is a perfect example of willful ignorance and it's that willful ignorance that's the reason why many people have a misguided view on the Catholic Church and its traditions, etc.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

If Joseph and Mary were "approved" to have sexual relations, then why was Mary surprised by Gabriels announcement that she would give birth to the son of God?

Hi Mary,

I was only responding to your question of why was Mary surprised. You replied to me just above with...

Hey rella,

In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed[a] to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.

As you can see they were betrothed BEFORE the visit by Gabriel. That means Mary knew she was "approved" to be with a man and have "sexual relations"! She would not be surprised that she could give birth to a child unless she was a professed virgin.

As you initially posted and I agree... Mary was surprised by Gabriels announcement..... and I had always assumed because it was going to be a child not from her betrothed.....

Luke 1 tells us...

26Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32“He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Oh well.... I am wrong, yet again...............................................

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

You could've googled it, if you really wanted to know, and I don't think you do, because when I said you should google what the Catholic Church actually teaches about prayer and confession, etc., you said "Nah." That is a perfect example of willful ignorance and it's that willful ignorance that's the reason why many people have a misguided view on the Catholic Church and its traditions, etc.

First of all, no one can pray for your forgiveness or your salvation....that falls squarely on your own shoulders. And that is what this prayers ultimate end is.

Next, I pray directly to my savior.... not His mother. It was His blood shed for me..... and it is by His blood I am saved. Someone praying to her son for me is not going to make it.

 

[Sigma]

First of all, no one can pray for your forgiveness or your salvation....that falls squarely on your own shoulders. And that is what this prayers ultimate end is.

Next, I pray directly to my savior.... not His mother. It was His blood shed for me..... and it is by His blood I am saved. Someone praying to her son for me is not going to make it.

Thank you for showing again why you should google what the Catholic Church actually teaches about prayer, etc., but as long as you continue to say "Nah" you choose to remain willfully ignorant, and thus misguided.

 

[Sigma]

Luke 1 tells us...

26Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And coming in, he said to her, “Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.” 29But she was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was. 30The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32“He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”

The Blessed Virgin Mary replied saying, "How shall this be done, because I know not man?" In other words, "How shall I have a child when I don't have sexual intercourse? And, She said that as a woman already betrothed to Joseph. If She had any intention of having sexual intercourse with Her spouse, then She wouldn't have asked that.

 

[David in NJ]

The Blessed Virgin Mary replied saying, "How shall this be done, because I know not man?" In other words, "How shall I have a child when I don't have sexual intercourse? And, She said that as a woman already betrothed to Joseph. If She had any intention of having sexual intercourse with Her spouse, then She wouldn't have asked that.

Joseph and Mary were betrothed and the official ceremony did not take place as yet.
Thus we have Mary saying “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

Furthermore, we have God specifically telling Joseph(via by Angel) to marry Mary which includes God given sexual intercourse.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
and Joseph did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.
And he called His name Jesus

 

[Sigma]

Joseph and Mary were betrothed and the official ceremony did not take place as yet.
Thus we have Mary saying “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.

The Blessed Virgin Mary replied saying, "How shall this be done, because I know not man?" In other words, "How shall I have a child when I don't have sexual intercourse? And, She said that as a woman already betrothed to Joseph. If She had any intention of having sexual intercourse with Her spouse at any point, then She wouldn't have asked that.

Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
and Joseph did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.

If you believe Scripture "plainly states" in Matt. 1:25 that Joseph and Mary didn't have intercourse and more children until after Mary gave birth to Jesus it doesn't; rather, it states they didn't have intercourse "until she brought forth her firstborn son." The word "until" has multiple definitions. For the sake of argument, say the word "until" was used to mean Joseph and Mary had intercourse after Jesus's birth, that in itself wouldn't prove Mary bore more children because, for example, having vaginal intercourse doesn't lead to procreation for some men and women. Sometimes the woman is barren or the man is sterile, etc. Your interpretation that the gospel writer, after writing about the long-anticipated messianic prophecy coming to fruition, basically threw in the tidbit, "After the birth of the Savior, Joseph had intercourse with Mary and 6+ more kids," at the end is quite random. It also isn't in line with the context of Matt. 1:20-25:

"But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled that which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Behold, a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. And Joseph, rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took to him his wife. And he knew her not until she brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name Jesus."

The context of Matt. 1:25 is Joseph's accepting as his spouse the virgin who conceived the Savior of mankind by the Holy Spirit. The gospel writer concludes the passage by stating that Joseph didn't have intercourse with Mary until Jesus's birth, to dispel any belief that he was the father. In other words, since the gospel writer's intent at the end was to show what Joseph didn't do until a certain point, so as to dispel any belief that Jesus was conceived by him, and not begotten by the Holy Spirit, they stated he remained chaste until Jesus's birth. Why would implying Joseph had or didn't have intercourse with Mary after Jesus's birth be relevant, when it's only about Jesus's paternal origin? It's not relevant, which is another reason why the definition of "until" that you're applying doesn't fit here, but rather "up to the time that," because it informs us what Joseph didn't do until a certain point, not what occurred after that point. The importance of Matt. 1:20-25 is that it primarily pertains to the messianic prophecy, not the sexual relationship, or lack thereof, between Joseph and Mary.

 

[David in NJ]

The Blessed Virgin Mary replied saying, "How shall this be done, because I know not man?" In other words, "How shall I have a child when I don't have sexual intercourse? And, She said that as a woman already betrothed to Joseph. If She had any intention of having sexual intercourse with Her spouse at any point, then She wouldn't have asked that.



If you believe Scripture "plainly states" in Matt. 1:25 that Joseph and Mary didn't have intercourse and more children until after Mary gave birth to Jesus, but it doesn't; rather, it states they didn't have intercourse "until she brought forth her firstborn son." The word "until" has multiple definitions. For the sake of argument, say the word "until" was used to mean Joseph and Mary had intercourse after Jesus's birth, that in itself wouldn't prove Mary bore more children because, for example, having vaginal intercourse doesn't lead to procreation for some men and women. Sometimes the woman is barren or the man is sterile, etc. Your interpretation that the gospel writer, after writing about the long-anticipated messianic prophecy coming to fruition, basically threw in the tidbit, "After the birth of the Savior, Joseph had intercourse with Mary and 6+ more kids," at the end is quite random. It also isn't in line with the context of Matt. 1:20-25:

"But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled that which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Behold, a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. And Joseph, rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took to him his wife. And he knew her not until she brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name Jesus."

The context of Matt. 1:25 is Joseph's accepting as his spouse the virgin who conceived the Savior of mankind by the Holy Spirit. The gospel writer concludes the passage by stating that Joseph didn't have intercourse with Mary until Jesus's birth, to dispel any belief that he was the father. In other words, since the gospel writer's intent at the end was to show what Joseph didn't do until a certain point, so as to dispel any belief that Jesus was conceived by him, and not begotten by the Holy Spirit, they stated he remained chaste until Jesus's birth. Why would implying Joseph had or didn't have intercourse with Mary after Jesus's birth be relevant, when it's only about Jesus's paternal origin? It's not relevant, which is another reason why the definition of "until" that you're applying doesn't fit here, but rather "up to the time that," because it informs us what Joseph didn't do until a certain point, not what occurred after that point. The importance of Matt. 1:20-25 is that it primarily pertains to the messianic prophecy, not the sexual relationship, or lack thereof, between Joseph and Mary.

It is a very evil thing to twist the Truth that you may prop up an idol.

In this case, substituting worship that only belongs to God for a woman who needed a Savior to cover her sins.

 

[Sigma]

It is a very evil thing to twist the Truth...

I didn't twist anything. You just don't like what I said because it isn't what you'd rather believe.

 

[BeyondET]

Protestant defined: a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth

Soooo you accept the "universal authority of the Pope"?

I'm not a member of any of those denomination, including the pope.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Thank you for showing again why you should google what the Catholic Church actually teaches about prayer, etc., but as long as you continue to say "Nah" you choose to remain willfully ignorant, and thus misguided.

REPLY PART ONE.............

Once and for all....

Here is the drop down list of the links that I looked into on Catholic prayer......and I will surprise you by saying that what is said in these links is 100% in agreement with protestant praying.......

What does the Catholic church really teach about prayer at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

ESPECIALLY ...How Do You Pray? What Should You Pray For? What Will Happen When You Pray? Ways to Develop a Life of Prayer What Is Prayer? People often say that prayer is just talking to God as you would to anyone else. It's true that a relationship with God contains many of the same ingredients as other relationships.

HOW:
First, know that there is no secret formula to pray. God simply delights in us coming to Him in honesty.

You can start by addressing God directly in a way that acknowledges His uniqueness.

People will say things such as, “Father God,” “Heavenly Father” or “Almighty God.” How you choose to address Him will remind you of who you are talking to and what He represents in your life.

What position should I be in to pray?​

You can bow, kneel, stand or walk around when you pray. God will hear you whatever you do, so choose a position that helps you focus.

Kneeling or bowing your head are great ways to focus your body and mind on God. It’s a symbolic way to demonstrate that you respect His authority. John 17:1 also describes Jesus looking toward Heaven when praying.

I personally have great prayer as I am driving.............

Do I pray to God the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit?​

This is completely up to you. Choose one or try praying to each member of the Trinity at different times, because they all listen to you. If you are a Christian, the Holy Spirit is the presence of God living within you. So you can address Him directly, with confidence that He is as close as He could be.

Romans 8:26 says, “And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don’t know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words” (NLT).

Find out more about how to understand the Holy Spirit’s role in your life.

See.... you are a protestant and just don't know it IF this is the way you pray.....

BUT IT DOES NOT STOP HERE... AS YOU WILL SEE WHAT THEY SAY IN MY PART TWO REPLY TO YOU.

 

[David in NJ]

The Blessed Virgin Mary replied saying, "How shall this be done, because I know not man?" In other words, "How shall I have a child when I don't have sexual intercourse? And, She said that as a woman already betrothed to Joseph. If She had any intention of having sexual intercourse with Her spouse at any point, then She wouldn't have asked that.



If you believe Scripture "plainly states" in Matt. 1:25 that Joseph and Mary didn't have intercourse and more children until after Mary gave birth to Jesus it doesn't; rather, it states they didn't have intercourse "until she brought forth her firstborn son." The word "until" has multiple definitions. For the sake of argument, say the word "until" was used to mean Joseph and Mary had intercourse after Jesus's birth, that in itself wouldn't prove Mary bore more children because, for example, having vaginal intercourse doesn't lead to procreation for some men and women. Sometimes the woman is barren or the man is sterile, etc. Your interpretation that the gospel writer, after writing about the long-anticipated messianic prophecy coming to fruition, basically threw in the tidbit, "After the birth of the Savior, Joseph had intercourse with Mary and 6+ more kids," at the end is quite random. It also isn't in line with the context of Matt. 1:20-25:

"But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled that which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: Behold, a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. And Joseph, rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took to him his wife. And he knew her not until she brought forth her firstborn son, and he called his name Jesus."

The context of Matt. 1:25 is Joseph's accepting as his spouse the virgin who conceived the Savior of mankind by the Holy Spirit. The gospel writer concludes the passage by stating that Joseph didn't have intercourse with Mary until Jesus's birth, to dispel any belief that he was the father. In other words, since the gospel writer's intent at the end was to show what Joseph didn't do until a certain point, so as to dispel any belief that Jesus was conceived by him, and not begotten by the Holy Spirit, they stated he remained chaste until Jesus's birth. Why would implying Joseph had or didn't have intercourse with Mary after Jesus's birth be relevant, when it's only about Jesus's paternal origin? It's not relevant, which is another reason why the definition of "until" that you're applying doesn't fit here, but rather "up to the time that," because it informs us what Joseph didn't do until a certain point, not what occurred after that point. The importance of Matt. 1:20-25 is that it primarily pertains to the messianic prophecy, not the sexual relationship, or lack thereof, between Joseph and Mary.

You asked: Why would implying Joseph had or didn't have intercourse with Mary after Jesus's birth be relevant, when it's only about Jesus's paternal origin? It's not relevant,

It is RELEVANT and of GREAT IMPORTANCE since to deny God's Commandment is willful SIN.

 

[Cassandra]

Mary cannot hear prayers--neither can the saints. I realize some think Mary is omniscient, but only God is, and certainly the saints aren't either.
And if she could hear, why would you need to ask her to ask Christ. Christ gave up everything for us==do you really think He has to have someone like His mother to ask Him for things for you? That is absurd/
You don't need any help with intercession. go boldly to the throne of grace. Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Thank you for showing again why you should google what the Catholic Church actually teaches about prayer, etc., but as long as you continue to say "Nah" you choose to remain willfully ignorant, and thus misguided.

REPLY #2

Praying to Mary and other Saints.

Let us start with a somewhat intro.... and will be carried to part 3 due to length

Veneration of Mary in the Catholic Church - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the Roman Catholic tradition Mariology is seen as Christology developed to its full potential.[10] Mary is seen as contributing to a fuller understanding of the life of Jesus. In this view, a Christology without Mary is not based on the total revelation of the Bible. Traces of this parallel interpretation go back to the early days of Christianity and numerous saints have since focused on it.[9]

The development of this approach continued into the 20th century. In his 1946 publication Compendium Mariologiae, Mariologist Gabriel Roschini explained that Mary not only participated in the birth of the physical Jesus, but, with conception, she entered with him into a spiritual union. The divine salvation plan, being not only material, includes a permanent spiritual unity with Christ.[11][12][13] Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI) wrote: "It is necessary to go back to Mary if we want to return to that 'truth about Jesus Christ,' 'truth about the Church' and 'truth about man' that John Paul II proposed as a program to all of Christianity," in order to ensure an authentic approach to Christology via a return to the "whole truth about Mary"

Continueing

Why do Catholics Pray to Mary and the Saints?

Why Catholics Pray to Mary

www.boston-catholic-journal.com

From the Boston Catholic Journal

Why do Catholics Pray to Mary and the Saints?​

“We are Surrounded by a Cloud of Witnesses”
​

“And therefore we also have so great a cloud of witnesses over our head — laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us.” (Hebrews 12.1)​

Catholics are often asked why they pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary, or to the Saints. In a way, it is difficult to understand this question because it often comes from people who claim to have read Sacred Scripture, and who hold themselves to be quite familiar with it. Most often it is asked in sincerity and charity, but often enough in disdain. Such a practice — that is to say, intercessory prayer (from the Latin, “intercessionem” or a “going between”) —is often regarded as something verging upon, if not tantamount to, superstition at best or sheer ignorance at worst. It is regarded as a vestige of medieval spirituality fostered by the Church at a time when literacy was not wide-spread — a superstition that would be quickly dispelled once the Latin Vulgate was translated into the vernacular and such a practice would quickly be revealed as uncorroborated by the Bible.

The first happened, but the second did not. Why?

It is, to Catholics, a thoroughly perplexing question because the answer lies precisely in Sacred Scripture; an answer, moreover, that accords with both reason and common sense.

Let us answer it, then, not simply as we understand it, but as the earliest Christians understood it, as the Apostles themselves understood it. St. Paul tells us the following:

“You helping withal in prayer for us: that for this gift obtained for us, by the means of many persons, thanks may be given by many in our behalf.” (2 Corinthians 1.11)​

St. James, likewise exhorts us to,

“... pray one for another, that you may be saved.” (St. James 5.16)​

We see clearly the exhortation of two of the Apostles to pray for one another.

Despite this, the question persists: “Why should we pray for each other if it is sufficient to pray directly to God?”

Should we be praying directly to God? Of course.

But we also see that we can assist another by petitioning God on their behalf. This is part of what Catholics understand in the beautiful doctrine of the Communion of the Saints, or the unity of all God’s children — both those alive, and those who have died — who form the One Body of Christ, which is His Holy Catholic Church: both those living and those who have died. Christ was very clear about this when He told the Sadducees,

“Concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken by God, saying to you: I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” (St. Matthew 22.31-32)​

Christ is telling the Sadducees that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not dead, after all — but alive!

In the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus, we find that Lazarus is alive in Heaven, and the rich man in Hell (St. Luke 16.19-31), and even though in Hell, the rich man implores Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers. To what end would he seek this if there is no communion between the living and those who have died and are in Heaven — in this case, Lazarus?

We see, then, that the living have a vital connection to those who died before them. Unlike the case with the rich man, forever condemned to Hell, how much more so can those who are still living by the grace of God petition those in Heaven to help them in their needs?

To understand this more clearly, we need a deeper understanding of The Communion of the Saints. It is the living relationship between the Church Militant on Earth (those now living on Earth fighting as good soldiers of Christ 1), the Church Suffering (the souls in Purgatory, or those assured of Heaven but not yet prepared to enter it), and the Church Triumphant (those already in Heaven). These are not three Churches, but one Church, and each person, either in Heaven, on Earth, or in Purgatory, can assist, pray for, the other. Those in Heaven, of course, do not need our prayers, but they can — and do — pray, petition, for us. And those in Purgatory can be prayed for by the living (as well as those in Heaven), and they in turn can pray for us (the living, or the Church Militant on Earth). We are always and forever one and inseparable in Christ Jesus.

Unchanging Man​

Consider this: when we die and (hopefully) go to Heaven, do we become different people from the people that we are now? Do we cease loving those whom we now love? Do we forget those for whom we now care? If we did, then we would be different persons from the persons that we are on Earth. We would be, in a word, less than human, for it is part of our human nature to ever love whom we love and to be mindful of those we love. It is indefeasible to love and therefore indefeasible to man. If we are becoming perfect through Purgatory, or are already perfected in our humanity in Heaven — how could we be less human than we are now? Would we consider a person perfected or perfect — who no longer loves whom they loved on Earth, and who is no longer mindful of them nor cares any longer for them? We would say of such that they did not love us after all, for when apart from us they completely forget us. We are created in the imago Dei, in the image of God — Who Is Love — in Heaven, then, will we be less like God or more like God — Who Is Love? Will we love more perfectly, or less perfectly?

If imperfect, selfish and sinful people on Earth can love others and be mindful of them, ever solicitous of them, never forgetting them, and always striving to do good for them — how much more so when we are perfect in Heaven?

In the end, you really know nothing of love until you really know something of the Communion of the Saints. Some of them have gone before you, and some remain with you, but all of them never cease loving you.

Now before you get all excited that you feel I proved your point.... Part 3 continues with

SHOULD CATHOLICS PRAY TO SAINTS?

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Thank you for showing again why you should google what the Catholic Church actually teaches about prayer, etc., but as long as you continue to say "Nah" you choose to remain willfully ignorant, and thus misguided.

REPLY #3

Why Do Catholics Pray to Saints?

Catholic prayer to the saints is a recognition that our union with the saints continues even though they are in Heaven and we are on earth.

www.learnreligions.com

Should Catholics Pray to Saints?​

This is where people begin to have a little trouble understanding what Catholics are doing when we pray to saints. Many non-Catholic Christians believe that it is wrong to pray to the saints, claiming that all prayers should be directed to God alone. Some Catholics, responding to this criticism and not understanding what prayer really means, declare that we Catholics do not pray to the saints; we only pray with them. Yet the traditional language of the Church has always been that Catholic pray to the saints, and with good reason—prayer is simply a form of communication. Prayer is simply a request for help. Older usage in English reflects this: We've all heard lines from, say, Shakespeare, in which one person says to another "Pray thee . . . " (or "Prithee," a contraction of "Pray thee") and then makes a request.

That's all we're doing when we pray to saints.

IT IS STILL WRONG BECAUSE there is no where in the bible that says anyone should pray to or ask for intercession with anyone dead.

From above: It is, to Catholics, a thoroughly perplexing question because the answer lies precisely in Sacred Scripture; an answer,

What scripture????? Where?????

Paul in 1 Corinthians who was alive, talking to alive people????????????????? No one dead prayed to that netted them help.

James who was alive when he said this to those alive in James 5: 14 - 16?

14Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (alive elders to anoint a live sick person)

15and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. (prayers from live people)
16

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. (prayers from live people)

WE ARE TOLD NOT TO PRAY TO THE DEAD........... SCRIPTURALLY.........

THE MOST CONCISE EXPLANATION I COULD FIND What does the Bible say about praying to / speaking to / talking to the dead? | GotQuestions.org

Praying to the dead is strictly forbidden in the Bible. Deuteronomy 18:11 tells us that anyone who “consults with the dead” is “detestable to the Lord.” The story of Saul consulting a medium to bring up the spirit of the dead Samuel resulted in his death “because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance” (1 Samuel 28:1-25; 1 Chronicles 10:13-14). Clearly, God has declared that such things are not to be done.

Consider the characteristics of God. God is omnipresent—everywhere at once—and is capable of hearing every prayer in the world (Psalm 139:7-12). A human being, on the other hand, does not possess this attribute. Also, God is the only one with the power to answer prayer. God is omnipotent—all powerful (Revelation 19:6). Certainly this is an attribute a human being—dead or alive—does not possess. Finally, God is omniscient—He knows everything (Psalm 147:4-5). Even before we pray, God knows our genuine needs and knows them better than we do. Not only does He know our needs, but He answers our prayers according to His perfect will.

So, in order for a dead person to receive prayers, the dead individual has to hear the prayer, possess the power to answer it, and know how to answer it in a way that is best for the individual praying. Only God hears and answers prayer because of His perfect essence and because of what some theologians call His “immanence.” Immanence is the quality of God that causes Him to be directly involved with the affairs of mankind (1 Timothy 6:14-15); this includes answering prayer.

Even after a person dies, God is still involved with that person and his destination. Hebrews 9:27 says so: “…Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” If a person dies in Christ, he goes to heaven to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-9, especially verse 8); if a person dies in his sin, he goes to hell, and eventually everyone in hell will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:14-15).

God has provided His Son, Jesus Christ, to be the mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5). With Jesus Christ as our mediator, we can go through Jesus to God. Why would we want to go through a sinful dead individual, especially when doing so risks the wrath of God?

As it is NOT scriptural to pray to the dead... where did the Catholic church come up with that idea?

 

[Sigma]

IT IS STILL WRONG BECAUSE there is no where in the bible that says anyone should pray to or ask for intercession with anyone dead.

Jesus's Mother isn't dead, She's alive in Heaven, just not living physically on the earth. Those alive in Purgatory awaiting entry into Heaven aren't people we pray to, rather people we pray for: "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." (2 Maccabees 12:46)

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus's Mother isn't dead, She's alive in Heaven, just not living physically on the earth. Those alive in Purgatory awaiting entry into Heaven aren't people we pray to, rather people we pray for: "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." (2 Maccabees 12:46)

JESUS has many mothers, sisters and brothers and they are in Heaven and they are also on earth.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus's Mother isn't dead, She's alive in Heaven, just not living physically on the earth. Those alive in Purgatory awaiting entry into Heaven aren't people we pray to, rather people we pray for: "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." (2 Maccabees 12:46)

Purgatory does not exist.

You cannot pray for the dead - this also is 'unholy' and forbidden by God.

Only JESUS can 'loose' a person from their sins = BEFORE they die!

 

[Sigma]

JESUS has many mothers, sisters and brothers and they are in Heaven and they are also on earth.

Spiritually speaking yes, biologically He has one Mother and no siblings.

 

[David in NJ]

Spiritual speaking yes, biologically He has one Mother and no siblings.

Did Mary produce Jesus or did Jesus produce Mary?