BeyondET
Well-Known Member
I'm certainly not protestant, they are mentioned in the bible.
False Teaching: Mary died a virgin. Biblical Proof Mary had children.
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Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me who it was that Jesus said while on the cross.....
"Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household."
Unless memory fails me was this not John... Jesus' beloved disciple???
But again, John was never called a brother of Jesus'
However... PAUL in Gal 1:
18 Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to 1become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days.
19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
Question ~ Who was this James that Paul called by name?
Matthew 13:55-56 names Jesus’ brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas and mentions sisters (plural), so He had at least six siblings.
Answer ~ Mathew says James is Jesus' brother and as he is always named first seems to be the oldest of Jesus' siblings.
James – The Brother of Jesus, James was a brother of Jesus and the son of Mary and Joseph (Matthew 13:55).
Also, Josephus’ story of the death of James, the Lord’s brother, suggests that he was a leader in the early church (Josephus Antiquities xx. 9. 1; cf. Vol. V, p. 71). In addition, Christian tradition, at least from the 2d century, recognizes James, the leader of the church at Jerusalem, as the Lord’s brother (Hegesippus, quoted by Eusebius Ecclesiastical History ii. 23).
Now.... I have not found anywhere that tells us James was a cousin to Jesus. I also have read that Mary was likely between 12 and 16 years old when she gave birth to Jesus, as by Jewish law she could not marry before the age of 12. Most articles written suggest that Joseph likely was around 20.
6 kids plus Jesus. If the six were step brothers and sisters.... That would mean they all were older then Jesus
as well as if Joseph was around 20... it would be impossible.
But... from How old were Joseph & Mary when they marrried?
duckduckgo.com
"Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household."
Unless memory fails me was this not John... Jesus' beloved disciple???
But again, John was never called a brother of Jesus'
However... PAUL in Gal 1:
18 Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to 1become acquainted with Cephas, and stayed with him fifteen days.
19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
Question ~ Who was this James that Paul called by name?
Matthew 13:55-56 names Jesus’ brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas and mentions sisters (plural), so He had at least six siblings.
Answer ~ Mathew says James is Jesus' brother and as he is always named first seems to be the oldest of Jesus' siblings.
James – The Brother of Jesus, James was a brother of Jesus and the son of Mary and Joseph (Matthew 13:55).
- 54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
- 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Also, Josephus’ story of the death of James, the Lord’s brother, suggests that he was a leader in the early church (Josephus Antiquities xx. 9. 1; cf. Vol. V, p. 71). In addition, Christian tradition, at least from the 2d century, recognizes James, the leader of the church at Jerusalem, as the Lord’s brother (Hegesippus, quoted by Eusebius Ecclesiastical History ii. 23).
Now.... I have not found anywhere that tells us James was a cousin to Jesus. I also have read that Mary was likely between 12 and 16 years old when she gave birth to Jesus, as by Jewish law she could not marry before the age of 12. Most articles written suggest that Joseph likely was around 20.
6 kids plus Jesus. If the six were step brothers and sisters.... That would mean they all were older then Jesus
as well as if Joseph was around 20... it would be impossible.
But... from How old were Joseph & Mary when they marrried?
The list of links that say about 20 can be found here
How old was Joseph when he married mary at DuckDuckGo
DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
Joseph and Mary married when She was sixteen and he was about thirty.
The apostle James that Paul referred to was Jesus's cousin the apostle James of Alphaeus. I've proven this in my thread.
You are ignorant of the scriptures,
John 7:5,
- for even Jesus' brothers did not believe in Him.
Fact: these brothers were unbelievers!!!
This proves they were Jesus' brothers in the flesh!!!
Part 1
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Part 2
John 7:5,
Brothers in John 7:5 is not Jewish brethren but Jesus' mothers children!!!!
There is two groups of people Jesus is speaking to in chapter 7 of John.
John 7:9,10,11
- When Jesus had said these things to them(jews), He remained in Galilee
- But when His brothers had gone up, He also went up to the feast...
- Then the jews sought Him at the feast and said where is He
Jews are brethren in nationality
In this context the jew is there and Jesus' brothers from His mother Mary.
The Context distinguishes the two!
John 7:5,
Brothers in John 7:5 is not Jewish brethren but Jesus' mothers children!!!!
There is two groups of people Jesus is speaking to in chapter 7 of John.
John 7:9,10,11
- When Jesus had said these things to them(jews), He remained in Galilee
- But when His brothers had gone up, He also went up to the feast...
- Then the jews sought Him at the feast and said where is He
Jews are brethren in nationality
In this context the jew is there and Jesus' brothers from His mother Mary.
The Context distinguishes the two!
And you're ignorant of the fact that the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) has multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "kinsman", e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, or uncle, etc. So, the word itself doesn't prove anything on its own. You need to show how the definition "kinsman" applies to the word "ἀδελφός" in Jn. 7:5, and that they were Jesus's siblings, but I know you won't be able to because of the following:
I know they weren't Jesus's siblings from Jesus Himself who showed Maria Valtorta that scene in full, and she wrote down what she saw and heard. From her writings I know Jesus's brothers in Jn. 7:3;5 were two of His kinsmen, specifically two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus, who at that time were unbelievers, though they later came to believe (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. IV, ch. 476, pp. 249-253).
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Mariolatry is idolatry and SIN
Turn away from idolatry and turn to JESUS, who ALONE can save your soul.
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Acts 4:12
The context of chapter 7 of John shows us Jesus' kinsman are referred to as jews,
And His brothers are there.
Two groups with Jesus!!!
John 7:1,2,3
- After these things Jesus walked in Galilee for He did not want to walk in Judea, because the jews sought to kill Him,
- Now the Jews feast...
- His brothers therefore said to Him, depart from here.....
Jews(kinsman)
Brothers(siblings)
The book The Poem of the Man-God is Scripture because they come from Jesus as well. The Book of John is vague regarding this scene, so vague in fact the writer doesn't even name who the brothers in Jn. 7:3;5 are, and the word "ἀδελφοὶ" in itself doesn't indicate which of it's definition applies. So, neither of us can prove our case using the Book of John alone, but I'm not completely without Scripture, because I just quoted from some.
The context of John 7 does reveal to us that His brothers are different from the Jews who are there also.
You are not studying the context!!!
To worship anything or anyone as a god is idolatry, and Catholics, like myself, don't worship Jesus's Mother or anyone/any thing else as a god. If you don't either then good.
Would you bow before a king? If you did, would that automatically mean you worship him as a god?
Catholics bow down to idols made by hands all the time. I've seen it in many countries.
Acts 10:25-26,
- as Peter was coming in Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshipped him
But Peter lifted him up saying Stand up I myself am also a man
We're not bowing to Her as if she were a god. Would you bow before a king? You prob would, would that automatically mean you worship him as a god? Prob not. And, we're not praying to Mary in the same way as we pray to God. We're asking for Her intercession, the way we ask our brothers and sisters for prayers.
I've watched catholics bow down to idols made with hands and pray outloud to it!!!
I would never bow down to an idol of ANY king and pray to it!!!
You are not fooling me
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Catholics are idolaters for they worship Mary, pray the Rosary beads, and pray to Saints.
Matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
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