Explain Revelations So Even I Can Understand It

[Marty fox]

You won't find any such thing in Revelation. After the first three chapters (addressed to specific churches, not the Church) there is no mention of "the Church" (nor "churches"). Why? Because the Church is already in Heaven at that time, and the prophecies are about the divine judgments ON EARTH. That is the bulk of Revelation.

You won't find any such thing in Revelation. After the first three chapters (addressed to specific churches, not the Church) there is no mention of "the Church" (nor "churches"). Why? Because the Church is already in Heaven at that time, and the prophecies are about the divine judgments ON EARTH. That is the bulk of Revelation.

Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

 

[nenagana]

(First the Ark of the Covenant was "purple and blue and gold".........then the ark was "blue and gold".............finally the ark was called "scarlet and gold, then it was finished)

(Joshua 2 talks about a "scarlet thread and three days of darkness"..................God has no association to those genetic lines and the lamb/jesus, that is the big change from the exodus, to the events of revelation...................they will all die in mass, but first the jews should have the most sick deaths, and displacing them, those unclean genetic lines that remain should also die but may not as quickly)

(jeremiah 4, 8 ..... zechariah 14 ...... humanity piles dead flesh at specific geographic areas for pleasure in nullifying the earth's field...............they will die in considerable numbers without god having to do anything really, or, without the son of man having to do anything really)

(based on mass deaths only, with humainty that is the only correct way to deal with it in its climax of suidcide pleasure at the end of time..................the son of man won't have to kill as many to get things into motion for the good of the people................I could just ignore one area, and as they die more quickly and suffering increases more quickly, I won't have to do much in terms of euthanasia to get things started.................) (even when humanity dies worthless, that is its right with god to be worthless in dead flesh, suicide pleasure, and even at the end of time) (because of pleasure, humanity does not have the same fundament experiences the son of man would, in the issue of suicides/dead flesh, until god reveals that argument more fully, that is mostly by choice and for pleasure)

 

[Enoch111]

Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Very cute. But these concluding remarks hark back to chapter 1. They have no bearing on what we are discussing i.e. the absence of the Church from earth after the opening of the 7th seal.

 

[Davy]

There was a time when that was important since the nation was divided. So? You really think that was supposed to mean that tribes are lost now?

You mean you think our Heavenly Father lied... when He gave through His prophets the various prophecies that He would gather the lost ten tribes back with the house of Judah in final, like in Ezekiel 37 for one?

It's obvious by your words that you do not like the Bible history about the two separate houses of Israel, the "house of Israel" which represents the ten northern tribes that were scattered by God, and the "house of Judah" which represent the JEWS today, and are still just a SMALL PORTION of the total number of Israelites. When Lord Jesus returns, that probably will be when you will understand this...

Isa 11:12-13
12 And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
KJV

... until then, just believe whatever agenda of men you want.

 

[Marty fox]

Very cute. But these concluding remarks hark back to chapter 1. They have no bearing on what we are discussing i.e. the absence of the Church from earth after the opening of the 7th seal.

Actually unlike the epistles there is no farewell to the 7 church’s after chapter 3 so Jesus himself shows us in the very last chapter of revelation that the whole message was also to the 7 churches

 

[Davy]

Maybe all that you just wrote answers my question that I asked you, but I'd like to hear you say it more clearly.

Are you saying that we gentiles who have accepted Christ, are in any way connected with the 10 Tribes that Hosea was addressing?

Or is it more of a figurative thing you are saying, that the Gentiles are similar to the 10 Tribes that God disowned?

I'm trying to see the connection that you have "alluded to".

You are a Christian right, a believer on Jesus Christ? If so, then how is it you missed Apostle Paul's teachings on Gentile believers becoming co-inheritors in God's Plan of Salvation? And did you not know that God's Old Testament prophets were given to point to that even before Christ's 1st coming? (see Isaiah 49:6; Isaiah 49:22; Isaiah 54:3; Isaiah 54; Isaiah 60; ).

Remember in Ephesians 2 with Paul speaking to how believing Gentiles have come 'nigh' to the covenants and promises God gave to Israel, and have become part of the "commonwealth of Israel"...

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV

Therefore, per the above, just what intention did Apostle Paul have in quoting from Hosea to the Gentile Roman Christians in Romans 9?

In final, at Christ's return in the future, His Kingdom is going to include the believing Gentiles also, along with the restored 12 tribes of Israel. Do you not remember what He promised to His 12 Apostles that they each would sit upon a throne ruling over the 12 tribes? (Matthew 19:27-28). In Ephesians 2, Apostle Paul said the Apostles and prophets and Jesus as The Cornerstone was the 'foundation' of Christ's Church. So who else than His Church would His coming Kingdom manifest on earth with, but both believing Israel and believing Gentiles as one body, just as His Church on earth is today?

What Paul's quoting from Hosea about the final status of the house of Israel, did, was to point to both believing Israel and believing Gentiles as Christ's future Kingdom, what Paul also called the "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2 when speaking to... Gentile believers!

 

[Davy]

Actually unlike the epistles there is no farewell to the 7 church’s after chapter 3 so Jesus himself shows us in the very last chapter of revelation that the whole message was also to the 7 churches

Yes, and all 7 Messages are still in effect upon today's Churches.

John Darby and Edward Irving in the 1830's were first to preach to a Church congregation the false pre-trib rapture theory. And Darby created a brand of Dispensationalism that included an idea like Christ's 7 Messages in Revelation were meant as "Church ages". That was Darby's idea, not really what God's Word shows.

The reason why man's tradition of "Church ages" is not Biblical is because it treats the 7 Messages as historical eras for the Church, and that means when each historical era is completed, then those Messages no longer apply. They believe Christ's last Message, to the Church of the Laodiceans, is about their so-called 'Laodicean Church Age' for the end of this world.

But in reality, all... 7 Messages are still applicable for today, in general, for every Church. This is why Lord Jesus gave prophecy in those Messages involving the time all the way up to His return, and His rewards to the faithful among them. Therefore, we are to LOOK at our Church we attend, and determine if it fits any of those things He gave in those 7 Messages. And only TWO Churches He had no rebuke for, which brethren ought to understand represents those He was completely happy with.

 

[Keraz]

Very cute. But these concluding remarks hark back to chapter 1. They have no bearing on what we are discussing i.e. the absence of the Church from earth after the opening of the 7th seal.

The Christians are seen in Revelation 12:17 When the AC persecutes them.

The vast multitude which John sees; Revelation 7:9, is on earth, nowhere is it said that the Church is taken to heaven.

 

[dad]

You mean you think our Heavenly Father lied... when He gave through His prophets the various prophecies that He would gather the lost ten tribes back with the house of Judah in final, like in Ezekiel 37 for one?

It's obvious by your words that you do not like the Bible history about the two separate houses of Israel, the "house of Israel" which represents the ten northern tribes that were scattered by God, and the "house of Judah" which represent the JEWS today, and are still just a SMALL PORTION of the total number of Israelites. When Lord Jesus returns, that probably will be when you will understand this...

Isa 11:12-13
12 And He shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
KJV

... until then, just believe whatever agenda of men you want.

There was a time when the kingdom was divided. What has that got to do with now?

 

[Enoch111]

The Christians are seen in Revelation 12:17 When the AC persecutes them.

These are the Tribulation saints (Christians saved by the preaching of Moses and Elijah). But the Church is already in Heaven.

 

[Wrangler]

Because of a reply like unto yours there should I have stated a fact.

Some reply likened unto, "True? Why would you answer it's true? Can you prove it? If you could, why didn't you?"

What doublespeak. Sad attempt to invoke KJV type language.

 

[Pythagorean12]

What doublespeak. Sad attempt to invoke KJV type language.

That's intellectually lacking as a cogent response.
Though it is the first I've witnessed an anti-KJV use that version as a means of personal attack against a Christian.

 

[Truth7t7]

He asked us to explain Revelation in a paragraph or two. Not what it is, but what it means.

I did give my explanation, perhaps you disagree

Revelation is a detailed description of end time events, leading up to the second coming of Jesus Christ and end of this world

 

[Keraz]

These are the Tribulation saints (Christians saved by the preaching of Moses and Elijah). But the Church is already in Heaven.

Assumption 1 - Revelation 12:17 is not referring to new converts. It is the half of the Christian people who did agree to a treaty with the Anti-Christ. Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:32 Also seen in Zechariah 14:2
The half who kept their faith and trust in the Lord, are taken to a place of safety on earth, Revelation 12:6 & 14

Assumption 2 - We are not told who the two Witnesses will be. I believe they will be two godly men, who are probably alive on earth, now. It is doubtful whether they convert anyone. They surely upset them! And get killed for it.

Assumption 3 - The Church in heaven? Where does the Bible say that? What we ARE told is: we must endure until the end, until Jesus comes. Then we will be with Him; in Jerusalem.

 

[Enoch111]

Actually unlike the epistles there is no farewell to the 7 church’s after chapter 3 so Jesus himself shows us in the very last chapter of revelation that the whole message was also to the 7 churches

Except that neither "church" nor "churches is found from Revelation 4 to 21. Search all you want to, you will not find "the Church" or "churches" mentioned until Rev 22 closes the book. Which means they are ABSENT when the 6th and 7th seal judgments are operational.

 

[Marty fox]

Except that neither "church" nor "churches is found from Revelation 4 to 21. Search all you want to, you will not find "the Church" or "churches" mentioned until Rev 22 closes the book. Which means they are ABSENT when the 6th and 7th seal judgments are operational.

Then who is the great uncountable multitude from every nation or who does the beast persecute?

 

[Enoch111]

Assumption 3 - The Church in heaven? Where does the Bible say that?

I will not respond to the other comments but this one passage should suffice: For our conversation [citizenship] is in Heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

So where are all the saints who have passed on since the time of Abel? In Heaven (within the New Jerusalem). And the reason our bodies will become glorious immortal bodies is so that they may dwell in Heaven.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Then who is the great uncountable multitude from every nation or who does the beast persecute?

The nominal Christians.
The Jews, who after Jesus crucifixion cursed themselves and all generations after saying, let his blood be on our heads and those of our children .

 

[Wrangler]

That's intellectually lacking as a cogent response.

Ditto.

 

[Wrangler]

the absence of the Church from earth after the opening of the 7th seal.

Wow!