Explain how God can exist

[newbirth]

That's avoidance. You did not answer my questions.

How so???? scripture answers a lot better than I can...do you not believe scripture???

 

[OzSpen]

How so???? scripture answers a lot better than I can...do you not believe scripture???

My questions at #98 were:

So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?

Did the universe have a beginning or not?

You have not answered these.

 

[newbirth]

My questions at #98 were:

You have not answered these.

but I have shown you one without beginning of days or end of life...if you do not believe scripture ...How can I answer you??? scripture says the world has a beginning... the world includes the universe...which is possible because He created the stars...the heavens and the earth...but He who created the world has no beginning...
Hebrews 7:2-4King James Version (KJV)
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

 

[newbirth]

This argument also discusses how the universe cannot be infinite. See 'Maths and the finitude of the past'.

so the argument is saying life cannot be eternal.....this is the argument ....everything has a beginning...... so God has a beginning...whatever has a beginning has an end ...so God has an end...If one trust in God they can see this type of garbage coming from miles away....

 

[OzSpen]

so the argument is saying life cannot be eternal.....this is the argument ....everything has a beginning...... so God has a beginning...whatever has a beginning has an end ...so God has an end...If one trust in God they can see this type of garbage coming from miles away....

so the argument is saying life cannot be eternal.....this is the argument ....everything has a beginning...... so God has a beginning...whatever has a beginning has an end ...so God has an end...If one trust in God they can see this type of garbage coming from miles away....

With respect, everything does not have a beginning. These were my two questions. I'll give them again:

1. So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?
2. Did the universe have a beginning or not?

Do you care to answer them specifically?

 

[newbirth]

With respect, everything does not have a beginning. These were my two questions. I'll give them again:

1. So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?
2. Did the universe have a beginning or not?

Do you care to answer them specifically?

The Word existed before He was made flesh....Christ's beginning was not caused by anything or anyone else....and His kingdom has no end


John 1:10-12King James Version (KJV)
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


and the universe had a beginning...God made it....

 

[OzSpen]

The Word existed before He was made flesh....Christ's beginning was not caused by anything or anyone else....and His kingdom has no end
John 1:10-12King James Version (KJV)
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:


and the universe had a beginning...God made it....

Since you refuse to answer my two plain questions, I say bye, bye.

 

[KingJ]

Since you refuse to answer my two plain questions, I say bye, bye.

Your questions are not plain and simple. There are like a million ways to answer ''Did the universe have a beginning or not''.

 

[OzSpen]

Your questions are not plain and simple. There are like a million ways to answer ''Did the universe have a beginning or not''.

King J,

The questions are plain and simple:


1. So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?

• Did your kitchen table have a beginning? Was it caused (brought into existence) by a carpenter?
• Did that cat have a beginning in its mother's womb? Who caused it to be conceived?
• What about the PC I'm using to type this message? Who caused it to come into existence at IBM?

2. Did the universe have a beginning or not?

• What is the evidence for the Big Bang?
• Is the universe running down, which suggests that it had a beginning?
• Who caused it to exist? Macro-evolution, God, or someone else?
• What is the evidence that the universe was created and is not an eternal thing?

If you want a Stephen Hawking explanation, you can read his perspective from science in, 'The beginning of time'.

If you want a Christian explanation, check out, 'The existence of God and the beginning of the universe', by William Lane Craig.

I don't find it at all difficult to consider that it is a plain question to ask about the beginning of the universe. However, with the resistance I'm experiencing here, I'm concluding that I'm possibly assuming too much.

Oz

 

[KingJ]

King J,

The questions are plain and simple:


1. So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?

• Did your kitchen table have a beginning? Was it caused (brought into existence) by a carpenter?
• Did that cat have a beginning in its mother's womb? Who caused it to be conceived?
• What about the PC I'm using to type this message? Who caused it to come into existence at IBM?

2. Did the universe have a beginning or not?

• What is the evidence for the Big Bang?
• Is the universe running down, which suggests that it had a beginning?
• Who caused it to exist? Macro-evolution, God, or someone else?
• What is the evidence that the universe was created and is not an eternal thing?

If you want a Stephen Hawking explanation, you can read his perspective from science in, 'The beginning of time'.

If you want a Christian explanation, check out, 'The existence of God and the beginning of the universe', by William Lane Craig.

I don't find it at all difficult to consider that it is a plain question to ask about the beginning of the universe. However, with the resistance I'm experiencing here, I'm concluding that I'm possibly assuming too much.

Oz

I agree Oz. I was just being sarcastic. Perhaps I was not being plain and simple :).

Of late I am wanting yes or no replies. It is amazing how some just can't answer a simple question.

Thanks for the effort in the post above. Made for a good read.

 

[newbirth]

Since you refuse to answer my two plain questions, I say bye, bye.

I answered your questions ....you seem not to understand my answers....

 

[Born_Again]

I heard this one today. You can ask "If Christianity were real, would you become a Christian?" Remembering, Atheist are supposedly reasonable people.

I thought that was an interesting question.

 

[OzSpen]

I agree Oz. I was just being sarcastic. Perhaps I was not being plain and simple :).

Of late I am wanting yes or no replies. It is amazing how some just can't answer a simple question.

Thanks for the effort in the post above. Made for a good read.

KingJ,

Thanks for your explanation. I didn't get the sarcasm as there can be so much resistance to basic questions that need answers when we face apologetic situations.

Because I live in the real world of a very secular Australia, the questions from Aussies are not ho-hum for which there is a yes-no answer. Many want me to pursue answers in interaction with them. Perhaps I'm expecting too much on this forum by wanting more than yes/no answers.

 

[River Jordan]

Have you considered using The Kalam Cosmological Argument (Philosophy of Religion) for the existence of God? It has the following logical structure:

(1) Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.

That doesn't work because in the world of quantum mechanics, things (particles) pop into and out of existence all the time, with no identifiable cause.

(4) If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God.

That doesn't work because it's just an empty assertion. An atheist could just as easily assert "then that cause is a quantum fluctuation".

 

[River Jordan]

Personally, I love the banana argument! That kinda made my day. Haha.

It's an incredibly stupid and embarrassing argument for one simple reason....the modern banana is the product of human-driven artificial selection, not creation by God. Cameron and Comfort are an embarrassment to Christians everywhere.

 

[Born_Again]

It's an incredibly stupid and embarrassing argument for one simple reason....the modern banana is the product of human-driven artificial selection, not creation by God. Cameron and Comfort are an embarrassment to Christians everywhere.

The modern Banana? :blink: Banana's have looked the same to me for the last 30 years. I'll agree Cameron is a bit of goober, but he doesn't embarrass me. Anywho, I still think it's funny. :)

 

[River Jordan]

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

That doesn't work because in the world of quantum mechanics, things (particles) pop into and out of existence all the time, with no identifiable cause.
.

Not really true. They don't "pop in and out of existence" at all. They change from an energy to a position but they remain unchanged.

It is dishonest to portray that this is "settled science" because it is not.

The cosmological argument is a very strong argument. You should watch the Craig/Krause debates.
Quantum particles cannot be the cause because they are part of this universe. You cannot logically argue that they are timeless. Nor do they have the complexity to create anything.

 

[newbirth]

Not really true. They don't "pop in and out of existence" at all. They change from an energy to a position but they remain unchanged.

It is dishonest to portray that this is "settled science" because it is not.

The cosmological argument is a very strong argument. You should watch the Craig/Krause debates.
Quantum particles cannot be the cause because they are part of this universe. You cannot logically argue that they are timeless. Nor do they have the complexity to create anything.

How does something change from something to something else but remain unchanged???....or did it just change positions....so the question is do they change from an energy to a position without any identifiable cause.???

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

They are caused. They are designed to do what God designed them to do. This is not rocket science. This is quantum mechanics.

You are falling into the Flying Spaghetti Monster fallacy. An entity that has God's qualities is God. You can't call it something else because you are uncomfortable with God.