Examine Yourselves

[Nancy]

This subject I am sure has been done many times before but, what I've come to believe is that to "examine ourselves" before partaking of the Lords Supper has nothing to do with, looking down and trying to "get right with God", ask forgiveness for all the sins we might have forgotten so we can be forgiven and cleansed. Well, Isn't the purpose of The Lords Supper what should be seen as a reminder and a celebration of those very things?
These meals were not just a bit of bread and a tiny cup of grape juice...they were whole meals! The Corinthians were getting drunk and were gluttons, they got there ahead of many of the poor and hungry. And, I think that is why so many are weak, get sick and or even die. The Corinth Church was partaking in an "unworthy manner"...not that the Corinthians were unworthy in and of themselves as God had already redeemed them.
The early Church had allot of bickering and divisions...'this one baptized by Paul, this one Apollos" and so on. Also, what's with the "gift on the alter" thing that Christians seem to think mean what it does not? Should we leave a Heifer at the alter of our Church's while we go make nice with someone we have issues with?? I see that as old testament...and BTW-why do we even have alters in Church's anyhow?? The final sacrifice is finished?
Just some musings from my readings

 

[Episkopos]

This subject I am sure has been done many times before but, what I've come to believe is that to "examine ourselves" before partaking of the Lords Supper has nothing to do with, looking down and trying to "get right with God", ask forgiveness for all the sins we might have forgotten so we can be forgiven and cleansed. Well, Isn't the purpose of The Lords Supper what should be seen as a reminder and a celebration of those very things?
These meals were not just a bit of bread and a tiny cup of grape juice...they were whole meals! The Corinthians were getting drunk and were gluttons, they got there ahead of many of the poor and hungry. And, I think that is why so many are weak, get sick and or even die. The Corinth Church was partaking in an "unworthy manner"...not that the Corinthians were unworthy in and of themselves as God had already redeemed them.
The early Church had allot of bickering and divisions...'this one baptized by Paul, this one Apollos" and so on. Also, what's with the "gift on the alter" thing that Christians seem to think mean what it does not? Should we leave a Heifer at the alter of our Church's while we go make nice with someone we have issues with?? I see that as old testament...and BTW-why do we even have alters in Church's anyhow?? The final sacrifice is finished?
Just some musings from my readings

The way I see this is that the organic church will have some very heated discussions...as we do in ours from time to time! :) When it comes to breaking the bread and the communion part....unless we all are in agreement or having love for one another...we shouldn't partake given those times.

There have been times where I felt NOT to partake as there were guests who had basically ruined the meeting with the kind of antics we see on the forums so often. No respect for the body...or for any authority but themselves and their religious opinions. No humility or fear of the lord. So I refuse to break bread with these. I see God's displeasure and I don't want to pretend that all is well when it isn't. Normally we never see those people again. They are destined to wander about unless they repent.

And this is the cost of having freedom in the gatherings. We have free speech to allow the Holy Spirit to intervene. Where the Spirit is there is freedom. And the times that disorder has come is not to be compared to when the Spirit speaks and visitation occurs.

So then there's not much point to the warning to settle our accounts with the brethren unless there is the freedom to disagree in the meetings themselves. THAT is the biblical way. But the flesh doesn't find this comfortable. They prefer control over freedom....as do the religious institutions.

 

[Nancy]

The way I see this is that the organic church will have some very heated discussions...as we do in ours from time to time! :) When it comes to breaking the bread and the communion part....unless we all are in agreement or having love for one another...we shouldn't partake given those times.

There have been times where I felt NOT to partake as there were guests who had basically ruined the meeting with the kind of antics we see on the forums so often. No respect for the body...or for any authority but themselves and their religious opinions. No humility or fear of the lord. So I refuse to break bread with these. I see God's displeasure and I don't want to pretend that all is well when it isn't. Normally we never see those people again. They are destined to wander about unless they repent.

And this is the cost of having freedom in the gatherings. We have free speech to allow the Holy Spirit to intervene. Where the Spirit is there is freedom. And the times that disorder has come is not to be compared to when the Spirit speaks and visitation occurs.

So then there's not much point to the warning to settle our accounts with the brethren unless there is the freedom to disagree in the meetings themselves. THAT is the biblical way. But the flesh doesn't find this comfortable. They prefer control over freedom....as do the religious institutions.

"unless we all are in agreement or having love for one another...we shouldn't partake given those times." <---In this case, I don't see much breaking of bread. I find not one person in agreement with each other 100%. Not to mention, Jesus Himself broke bread with Judas...

"So I refuse to break bread with these. I see God's displeasure and I don't want to pretend that all is well when it isn't. Normally we never see those people again. They are destined to wander about unless they repent." <--- A good thing you never see those people again. We cannot go against our own consciences. Yet, it is our own hearts that need to be examined and regardless if there are some who are contentious, can we not eat and give thanks and glory to God despite those who are causing factions?

 

[Willie T]

I think you are going to find some different replies. LOL (Relax. I'm just "lurking.")

 

[Nancy]

I think you are going to find some different replies. LOL (Relax. I'm just "lurking.")

Haha, I am SURE there will be some different replies. And, not all in agreement, that's okay. Just throwing some of my thoughts out there, as to where the scriptures and other sources lead me. We all can see so much in a different light...I call it SHARING

 

[marks]

This subject I am sure has been done many times before but, what I've come to believe is that to "examine ourselves" before partaking of the Lords Supper has nothing to do with, looking down and trying to "get right with God", ask forgiveness for all the sins we might have forgotten so we can be forgiven and cleansed. Well, Isn't the purpose of The Lords Supper what should be seen as a reminder and a celebration of those very things?
These meals were not just a bit of bread and a tiny cup of grape juice...they were whole meals! The Corinthians were getting drunk and were gluttons, they got there ahead of many of the poor and hungry. And, I think that is why so many are weak, get sick and or even die. The Corinth Church was partaking in an "unworthy manner"...not that the Corinthians were unworthy in and of themselves as God had already redeemed them.
The early Church had allot of bickering and divisions...'this one baptized by Paul, this one Apollos" and so on. Also, what's with the "gift on the alter" thing that Christians seem to think mean what it does not? Should we leave a Heifer at the alter of our Church's while we go make nice with someone we have issues with?? I see that as old testament...and BTW-why do we even have alters in Church's anyhow?? The final sacrifice is finished?
Just some musings from my readings

HI Nancy,

Here's the passage, or one, for reference . . .

1 Corinthians 11
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

Eating 'this' bread, and drinking 'this' cup shows the Lord's death till he come.

There is the Lord's supper, but these take their own supper.

The complaint is that some fill up, leaving nothing for others. He says to fill your hunger at home, but when you come together, wait for each other.

I'm thinking of this as examining whether you are counting this bread and wine as something special, or just another meal. Much like in Hebrews where those who think they can return to sacrificing animals are treating Jesus' shed blood as no better then the blood of animals.

Is this a remembrance of Jesus, shared with others? Or self satisfaction?

Not discerning the Lord's body . . . not discerning that the bread and wine are the body and the blood? Not discerning that those we are sharing with are His body?

Good topic!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Haha, I am SURE there will be some different replies. And, not all in agreement, that's okay. Just throwing some of my thoughts out there, as to where the scriptures and other sources lead me. We all can see so much in a different light...I call it SHARING

Amen!

 

[Enoch111]

This subject I am sure has been done many times before but, what I've come to believe is that to "examine ourselves" before partaking of the Lords Supper has nothing to do with, looking down and trying to "get right with God", ask forgiveness for all the sins we might have forgotten so we can be forgiven and cleansed.

Sorry, Nancy, but this post of yours is seriously veering away from the truth (which is rather surprising). We need to see the context of examining ourselves before the Lord's Supper and the consequences of not examining ourselves.

1 CORINTHIANS 11:27-32: A WARNING TO ALL BELIEVERS

1. THERE IS SUCH A THING AS PARTAKING UNWORTHILY
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [Note: it is a sin to partake unworthily]

2. SELF-EXAMINATION IS COMMANDED,NOT AN OPTION
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [Note: self-examination is for serious examination of all sins and failures, confession, and repentance]

THOSE WHO PARTAKE UNWORTHILY BRING JUDGMENT UPON THEMSELVES
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [judgment, condemnation] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

THERE ARE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FOR PARTAKING UNWORTHILY
30 For this cause many are [1] weak and [2] sickly among you, and [3] many sleep. [DIE PREMATURELY]

EITHER WE JUDGE OURSELVES, OR BRING JUDGMENT UPON OURSELVES
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

THIS JUDGMENT IS NOT DAMNATION BUT CHASTENING
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

There's a lot more about your post that is incorrect, but let's focus on this. Then perhaps you can see for yourself that your musings and ramblings are self-generated.

 

[marks]

2. SELF-EXAMINATION IS COMMANDED,NOT AN OPTION
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [Note: self-examination is for serious examination of all sins and failures, confession, and repentance]

THOSE WHO PARTAKE UNWORTHILY BRING JUDGMENT UPON THEMSELVES
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [judgment, condemnation] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Just to be clear, you are saying that we need to make confession of sins so we can receive forgiveness each time before partaking of the Lord's supper?

Much love!

 

[Enow]

This subject I am sure has been done many times before but, what I've come to believe is that to "examine ourselves" before partaking of the Lords Supper has nothing to do with, looking down and trying to "get right with God", ask forgiveness for all the sins we might have forgotten so we can be forgiven and cleansed. Well, Isn't the purpose of The Lords Supper what should be seen as a reminder and a celebration of those very things?

It is as you say because the unworthy manner was that believers were coming to church and getting their fill from eating the bread and getting drunk by drinking the wine to satisfy their appetites when they should be eating at home for that purpose.

These meals were not just a bit of bread and a tiny cup of grape juice...they were whole meals!

Actually, that is all that they were because remember how Paul reminded them what the bread was for and what the wine was for. Nothing else was mentioned for how they were to take communion.

The Corinthians were getting drunk and were gluttons, they got there ahead of many of the poor and hungry. And, I think that is why so many are weak, get sick and or even die. The Corinth Church was partaking in an "unworthy manner"...not that the Corinthians were unworthy in and of themselves as God had already redeemed them.

Well, the unworthy manner was that they were diving in to the bread and the wine before church service and communion began to satisfy their appetite for why when everybody has arrived, they were hungry and thirsty too because they had the mindset to do the same thing, but somebody else beat them to it for why Paul asks the question.. 22 "What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?"

So there was no feast, but believers were treating the breaking of the bread and the drinking of the wine as something not for communion, but to beat everybody else in satisfying their hunger and thirst by at church. They were treating it as free food and drinks.

1 Corinthians 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. 21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?

The early Church had allot of bickering and divisions...'this one baptized by Paul, this one Apollos" and so on. Also, what's with the "gift on the alter" thing that Christians seem to think mean what it does not? Should we leave a Heifer at the alter of our Church's while we go make nice with someone we have issues with?? I see that as old testament...and BTW-why do we even have alters in Church's anyhow?? The final sacrifice is finished?
Just some musings from my readings

Paul explained what communion was for why there was nothing else to eat but bread and the wine to drink.

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

It is a judgment to avoid from God for why believers should not be looking to treat communion as a means to satisfy their appetites. That is why some have "died" as in gone to sleep while others have gotten sick. So they were not sick or dead because they were dying from hunger and thirst, because they had homes to eat in, but rather because they were eating the bread & the wine in an unworthy manner for why God judged them to get sick and die. If we judge ourselves for how we take communion, and it would be pretty hard today to take it to satisfy our appetites with that little piece of bread and tiny cup of wine, but then again, if a deacon or elder was drinking and eating in the back room while setting it up on the trays,.. who knows maybe that is why they got sick and have died, and nobody connected the two together for the cause.

 

[Enoch111]

Just to be clear, you are saying that we need to make confession of sins so we can receive forgiveness each time before partaking of the Lord's supper?

It is not what I am saying. It is what the Lord is saying to every believer. And this Scripture addressed to Christians applies:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Ezra]

examine ourselves 1. we need do this all the time. 2. it is for the Lord Supper/communion its a time of reflection what Christ Done for us. we simply just need get things squared away with the Lord before partaking of communion

Just to be clear, you are saying that we need to make confession of sins so we can receive forgiveness each time before partaking of the Lord's supper?

yes its called repentance not to man but as 1 john 1:9 states. also a practice we should do all the time not just at communion . communion should be took in the most serious manner there is.

 

[marks]

It is not what I am saying. It is what the Lord is saying to every believer. And this Scripture addressed to Christians applies:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

I guess I never realized that you thought this way.

So then the sins you commit today are unforgiven until you confess? Am I understanding you correctly?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

"unless we all are in agreement or having love for one another...we shouldn't partake given those times." <---In this case, I don't see much breaking of bread. I find not one person in agreement with each other 100%. Not to mention, Jesus Himself broke bread with Judas...

"So I refuse to break bread with these. I see God's displeasure and I don't want to pretend that all is well when it isn't. Normally we never see those people again. They are destined to wander about unless they repent." <--- A good thing you never see those people again. We cannot go against our own consciences. Yet, it is our own hearts that need to be examined and regardless if there are some who are contentious, can we not eat and give thanks and glory to God despite those who are causing factions?

I think there is a difference between not agreeing and having hostility. I have a number of people here on ignore. I would certainly not break bread with these as I see them as hostile to the truth. They wouldn't want to meet anyway. But that doesn't mean that I agree with everyone else. As long as there is civility and love between brethren we can break bread together. It's the hostility that keeps us apart. And Jesus did come to bring a sword and fire after all. So there should be no surprise there.

The churches are made up of Cains and Abels. Of Jacobs and Esaus. That's just the way things are.

 

[Willie T]

I guess I never realized that you thought this way.

So then the sins you commit today are unforgiven until you confess? Am I understanding you correctly?

Much love!

That's a pretty standard Church of Christ belief.

 

[Willie T]

Just to be clear, you are saying that we need to make confession of sins so we can receive forgiveness each time before partaking of the Lord's supper?

Much love!

Scary, huh?

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑
Just to be clear, you are saying that we need to make confession of sins so we can receive forgiveness each time before partaking of the Lord's supper?

Scary, huh?

Devastatingly so, for those who believe that, imo.

What happens with the sin you forget? The one you didn't realize? The one you didn't think was sin, until a week later?

What do you do when you've just shared communion, and Then you realize . . . I forget to confess _________!

I'm not trying to be flippant. Either sin is forgiven or it's not, and if we need to confess every sin and receive fresh forgiveness, who can do that?

 

[Nancy]

Sorry, Nancy, but this post of yours is seriously veering away from the truth (which is rather surprising). We need to see the context of examining ourselves before the Lord's Supper and the consequences of not examining ourselves.

1 CORINTHIANS 11:27-32: A WARNING TO ALL BELIEVERS

1. THERE IS SUCH A THING AS PARTAKING UNWORTHILY
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [Note: it is a sin to partake unworthily]

2. SELF-EXAMINATION IS COMMANDED,NOT AN OPTION
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [Note: self-examination is for serious examination of all sins and failures, confession, and repentance]

THOSE WHO PARTAKE UNWORTHILY BRING JUDGMENT UPON THEMSELVES
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [judgment, condemnation] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

THERE ARE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES FOR PARTAKING UNWORTHILY
30 For this cause many are [1] weak and [2] sickly among you, and [3] many sleep. [DIE PREMATURELY]

EITHER WE JUDGE OURSELVES, OR BRING JUDGMENT UPON OURSELVES
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

THIS JUDGMENT IS NOT DAMNATION BUT CHASTENING
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

There's a lot more about your post that is incorrect, but let's focus on this. Then perhaps you can see for yourself that your musings and ramblings are self-generated.

"THOSE WHO PARTAKE UNWORTHILY BRING JUDGMENT UPON THEMSELVES
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [judgment, condemnation] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Well yes, of course they bring damnation onto themselves, they are living in sin. Drunkards? Gluttons? Of which none of those things will enter into His rest, unless they repent and think of the poorest and hungriest of the Body.
"Not discerning the Lords Body"
Thinking only of themselves, the total opposite of the Gospel.
BTW-I don't necessarily claim to know ALL Truth but, I do strive to :)

If you feel you just must tell me where I am WRONG and YOU are RIGHT, feel free to do so. I'm not rigid in all of my present stances. But please, don't tell me what to "believe" because, there are way too many who say the same on here. One day He WILL bring me into ALL Truth.

 

[quietthinker]

This subject I am sure has been done many times before but, what I've come to believe is that to "examine ourselves" before partaking of the Lords Supper has nothing to do with, looking down and trying to "get right with God", ask forgiveness for all the sins we might have forgotten so we can be forgiven and cleansed. Well, Isn't the purpose of The Lords Supper what should be seen as a reminder and a celebration of those very things?
These meals were not just a bit of bread and a tiny cup of grape juice...they were whole meals! The Corinthians were getting drunk and were gluttons, they got there ahead of many of the poor and hungry. And, I think that is why so many are weak, get sick and or even die. The Corinth Church was partaking in an "unworthy manner"...not that the Corinthians were unworthy in and of themselves as God had already redeemed them.
The early Church had allot of bickering and divisions...'this one baptized by Paul, this one Apollos" and so on. Also, what's with the "gift on the alter" thing that Christians seem to think mean what it does not? Should we leave a Heifer at the alter of our Church's while we go make nice with someone we have issues with?? I see that as old testament...and BTW-why do we even have alters in Church's anyhow?? The final sacrifice is finished?
Just some musings from my readings

Nancy....the Sanctuary system God gave Israel is not understood, in fact it is all but totally dismissed as being relevant, and because it is not understood many Christians are in the dark regarding many scriptural statements. This is a critical error.
God has laid out his Plan of Redemption from start to finish in the Sanctuary system.

If we want to understand the reality in the present time and ahead of us the Sanctuary arrangement needs revisiting. The Sanctuary was presented as a shadow/shadows...Where ever a shadow is a substance exists and the substance involves more than just the sacrifice.

Paul uses Sanctuary terminology to draw our attention to its intention.
Yes, the final sacrifice as depicted by the lamb slain is finished but that is not the end of the sanctuary service. There is a Priest who has yet to perform certain functions connected to the sacrifice. The Priest and his ongoing role is also a shadow of Jesus and his activity in the heavens.

If you want clarity on this make the extra effort and listen to the video presentations (around a dozen or so) posted by ReChoired towards the bottom of page 18 of his thread 'Prophetic Chart from beginning unto the ending, Prophetic studies'.....yes, they are extended yet have much detail which the presenter repeats often because we are so forgetful. It is well worth the time put in.

 

[Willie T]

"THOSE WHO PARTAKE UNWORTHILY BRING JUDGMENT UPON THEMSELVES
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation [judgment, condemnation] to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

Well yes, of course they bring damnation onto themselves, they are living in sin. Drunkards? Gluttons? Of which none of those things will enter into His rest, unless they repent and think of the poorest and hungriest of the Body.
"Not discerning the Lords Body"
Thinking only of themselves, the total opposite of the Gospel.
BTW-I don't necessarily claim to know ALL Truth but, I do strive to :)

If you feel you just must tell me where I am WRONG and YOU are RIGHT, feel free to do so. I'm not rigid in all of my present stances. But please, don't tell me what to "believe" because, there are way too many who say the same on here. One day He WILL bring me into ALL Truth.

Wow! Enoch111 has to actually discard and ignore and deny the clearly worded CONTEXT of that entire passage to come up with some arbitrary reason to justify his illusion.