Emotion replacing study

[bbyrd009]

now, in the interests of fairness i am sure willing to start over if you like, ok...

 

[bbyrd009]

you infer that you know some truth that deserves approval by everyone, can i ask what that is?

^

 

[bbyrd009]

What might someone not agree with that another has to share? How about the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

"Ghost?" Casper is a ghost, ok, and the Hebrews had a term for ghost that you cannot Quote from Scripture, "shade" or something similar is how we would xlate it today, and "Ghost" is just another way to disrespect the Holy Spirit imo, another Catholic heresy. No offense but you are the ghost, ok, and the Holy Spirit is spirit, which term you do not even know the definition of yet, as could be easily demonstrated, firstly by this ignorant use of "ghost" i guess, sorry

How about tithing?

how about reinstating the Theocracy first then? Dont we all get "tithed" at about the 10% going rate? Its just called "income tax" in our Empire, but exact same diff bro. Surely you dont mean for me to give even more of my hard earned money to Some Guy who signed a Contract for Jesus and is now in league with the Empire, i mean do you? So that he can tell me all the stuff, the complete crap, that he insists that i believe? too?

How about once saved always saved?

wow, you got it way worse than i though bro, if you think you are going to foist this dreck off as Absolute Truth? (Actually i would agree with this one, as long as we all understand that no one present is saved yet; but im guessing that would not fit with your little program of self-serving now, would it)

ok, do we need to continue, prolly not huh
notice how all of your imaginations here are completely Scripture-free? too?

 

[Hope in God]

While I do agree with much of your OP, the title gave me a different impression. Too much study without the Holy Spirit is as bad as too much emotion without the Holy Spirit, which is as bad as knowledge without charity/love!

When Paul writes of study, as does even Solomon, they do not interject the idea of the Spirit being present. They are the only two verses that use that word to mean the searching of the Scriptures. Also, the words "search the Scriptures" are mentioned only twice. (John 5:39; Acts 17:11)

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Ecclesiastes 12:12
And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

Although we know that the Holy Spirit is given unto to us to lead and guide us into all truth, in regards to study, I don't see the mentioning of the Spirit's involvement while the person actually sits at his desk to read and examine the Scriptures. What I mean is not that the Spirit does not have His place, but there is nowhere we are encouraged to not take an academic, scholarly approach to learning. And yet, a warning against it seems to saturate the church surrounding the long-time insistence to avoid "the letter of the law".

We can ever learn and not come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Tim. 3:7), granted, but that speaks, really, of not having a heart to the truth. That isn't to say a simple student's approach to study must not be attempted, that somehow some mystical presence must be present during our mere reading or the rehashing of notes we took from a sermon.

The greatest reason why believers do not study is because they have never been taught, and then when they hear that they could be wasting their time with the letter of the law, that does little to encourage right study habits. I was a Christian for seven years before I l learned how to search the Scriptures. It developed as a result of my attending twice daily teachings for over a year, and going over my notes. Sadly, that sort of setting is not used in many places of worship, and the teachings, if there are any, are not systematic and based on principles found throughout the Bible, as opposed to a verse-by-verse approach.

 

[bbyrd009]

frustrated professors :rolleyes

 

[Hidden In Him]

I believe it is just Laodicean apathy. They simply don't care! I suspect that fewer than 5% of Christians have read the entire Bible even once!

Yes. Now I believe that many don't read it because they don't understand it, but even this seems to me to be a reflection of how much they truly desire the things of God. Just because it requires study, which can be hard work, if you truly love the word of God and want to learn from Him, isn't that effort you would nevertheless put in in order to do so? I think many say they love God, but the scant amount of time they actually spend at His feet may be revealing something different (unfortunately).

 

[Hidden In Him]

But, on the other hand, some people lean too much on their study of the written scriptures without the balancing Life giving Holy Spirit. The best of Bible students is still dead in the eyes of God without the quickening of what he has consumed with his mind by the Holy Spirit!

Certainly. But I've found that even when led of the Holy Spirit, as He reveals to you true interpretation from false, study can be a lot of hard work. There's a ton of checking and cross-checking, and often the need to dig into extensive amounts of reference material. An interpretation has to coincide with an exacting analysis of the original languages or the languages will expose it as false.

Being led of the Spirit is primary. But after this, scholarship and education become necessary in confirming what the Spirit is showing you regarding scripture interpretation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The greatest reason why believers do not study is because they have never been taught, and then when they hear that they could be wasting their time with the letter of the law, that does little to encourage right study habits. I was a Christian for seven years before I l learned how to search the Scriptures. It developed as a result of my attending twice daily teachings for over a year, and going over my notes. Sadly, that sort of setting is not used in many places of worship, and the teachings, if there are any, are not systematic and based on principles found throughout the Bible, as opposed to a verse-by-verse approach.

Yes. It's much more now about cherry picking a few verses here and there and then extrapolating a message out of them that sounds "relevant" to modern times. In the process, however, the verses quoted are taken completely out of context because the context is never discussed in the sermon. Therefore, not only are the verses taken out of their own internal context but Christian teachings on numerous subjects then become divorced from their true New Testament surroundings.

The result is that Biblical illiteracy just breeds more Biblical illiteracy.

 

[bbyrd009]

frustrated professors :rolleyes

look i apologize but we imo debate "giving" 10% rather than contemplate giving it all ok. Beware of what you know, brother, esp what you are absolutely sure of. Meat has a funny way of rotting on you, yeh?

so how bout i dont judge your beliefs and you...do what you like, insist if you insist, but see how you then have to run and hide ok

 

[bbyrd009]

if you believe that you know a spiritual AT--other than "Yah" that is--that can be stated in terms whose definitions we have books for, right, then bam pls say it, that we might all understand. Name a single one. And then understand what trees means.

 

[Jenniferdiana3637]

In my Bible reading today, I came upon a verse that reminded me of another passage. Psalms 45:8 which speaks of the fragrances of the garments of the Bride of Christ (truth). They "smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia..."

In contrast, speaking of the strange woman in Proverbs 7:17, she states, "I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon."

Notice the difference? There is a replacement. So, just who is that strange woman, besides being a lady of the evening?

She is false doctrine. This speaks pointedly to a present day dilemma. So much error today is cloaked with the fragrance of truth, but in reality, cinnamon has replaced cassia.

We must be vigilant, especially now that so much of the truth is being laid aside for the sake of peace among the brethren. Truths have become rewritten and watered down by the use of good sounding phrases and promises.

What has evolved is a widespread belief that the only path to peaceful relationships among believers with varying doctrinal emphases is to believe that no truth deserves approval by everyone.

In other words, one can’t make a claim that the truth that he/she holds deserves belief by everybody. And, so to maintain unity, if that is indeed the goal, we must abandon agreement.

In many cases emotion has replaced the deep search for truths, because, after all, an insistence on a truth is seen as arrogance, not love, and must be set aside for community.

Or probably the same one who made herself clean...if the fragrance smells good it must be good right?

 

[friend of]

I'm admitting lacking when it comes to studying the scriptures. I'm aware that there is much I don't know and so much of my efforts put toward study are still lacking. I pray this won't be held against me, but idk. Perhaps any other person who has put as much time in reading and searching the scriptures for real, living spiritual truth would have fared better than me. I am a great sinner who wouldn't consider himself an academic unlike so many members here. I know that Jesus is the great savior of sinners like me. I pray that my simplicity is acceptable before God and that He will make up what I'm lacking.

 

[Stan B]

Yes. Now I believe that many don't read it because they don't understand it, but even this seems to me to be a reflection of how much they truly desire the things of God.

Maybe a child's 'version' like the Living Bible might be a starting point for some. I really enjoy Kenneth Taylor's paraphrase, because as I read through it, sometimes things would be revealed to me that I didn't know was in Scripture. So, I would go and check it out in a translation to see if it was so. So, it was a very educational adventure for me.

 

[Hope in God]

I'm admitting lacking when it comes to studying the scriptures. I'm aware that there is much I don't know and so much of my efforts put toward study are still lacking. I pray this won't be held against me, but idk. Perhaps any other person who has put as much time in reading and searching the scriptures for real, living spiritual truth would have fared better than me. I am a great sinner who wouldn't consider himself an academic unlike so many members here. I know that Jesus is the great savior of sinners like me. I pray that my simplicity is acceptable before God and that He will make up what I'm lacking.

I was as you are at one time in my life, friend. And even today, just because I've learned to search the Scriptures, I am still not where I want to be in regard to knowing the Word. Have you watched the competition on TV called the Bible Bee where 15-17 year old teenagers are asked to recite entire passages of Scripture after hearing merely a few words of each seven to ten verses requested of them? They memorize 250 complete passages, each five to ten verses long, such as what is found in Ephesians 6 where it details the whole armor of God.

I'm floored when I watch them and know that what they have in them will be the catalyst that will propel them toward contacts and jobs where the Lord will use their knowledge.

For me, it wasn't competition that started my memorization of Scripture. It was songs. The emphasis in the 70s on singing songs written from verses, most of which were from Psalms, built in me a foundation. Now, when I pray, many of those words come to me, and I will recite them as part of my conversation with the Lord. Maranatha songs are, for the most part, Scripture songs, which I highly recommend to those who want to memorize. Also, a person can write his/her own Bible based songs.

I used to play a bass to help lead worship, and used a standard guitar to write simple Scripture songs. I wrote a few that I still sing today, or recite when needed. An example is from Eph. 3:6-10, "Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints...And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"

As for learning to study, I strongly believe it requires adopting a systematic approach, not the hit and miss or shotgun method that you write about. I have a website that I used to diligently work on to help lead believers to learn the first principles mentioned in Heb. 6. It can be found here: Shiloh Sanctuary The website went through some changes over the years due to new owners which caused me to have to rewrite and reorder the lessons, but if you stick with the teachings found under the "Preliminary to the First Principles", I think it can be a good start for you. Let me know if you decide to use my lesson notes, please. I'll try to give you a launching pad.....In Christ, David

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm admitting lacking when it comes to studying the scriptures. I'm aware that there is much I don't know and so much of my efforts put toward study are still lacking. I pray this won't be held against me, but idk. Perhaps any other person who has put as much time in reading and searching the scriptures for real, living spiritual truth would have fared better than me. I am a great sinner who wouldn't consider himself an academic unlike so many members here. I know that Jesus is the great savior of sinners like me. I pray that my simplicity is acceptable before God and that He will make up what I'm lacking.

You dont need to be smart, even Jesus said,

Luk_10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

When you are driving, walking, showering, whatever, talk to Him, ask the questions, than you will see, He who is the truth will reveal the truth.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

[amadeus]

When Paul writes of study, as does even Solomon, they do not interject the idea of the Spirit being present. They are the only two verses that use that word to mean the searching of the Scriptures. Also, the words "search the Scriptures" are mentioned only twice. (John 5:39; Acts 17:11)

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Ecclesiastes 12:12
And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh."

What Solomon wrote regarding study, even study of the scriptures, in our flesh alone is a weariness. What Apostle Paul wrote admonished us to read and to study, but the purpose shown is to meet with God's approval by our obedience, NOT in order to learn. God provided another way to learn.

A person reading and studying the Bible with the wrong attitude, that is with the wrong spirit [Not the Holy Spirit] will obtain also the wrong result. Consider how much an atheist receives when he reads the Bible only with the purpose of convincing true believers that they are in error. If he is really seeking truth, God may allow him to see some Light, but if his wrong attitude continues, his wrong results will continued to be obtained.

The Way to Truth is seen here:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

If a person quenches the Holy Spirit of God in favor of the carnal ability his own mind alone, he is asking for and will receive trouble!

Although we know that the Holy Spirit is given unto to us to lead and guide us into all truth, in regards to study, I don't see the mentioning of the Spirit's involvement while the person actually sits at his desk to read and examine the Scriptures. What I mean is not that the Spirit does not have His place, but there is nowhere we are encouraged to not take an academic, scholarly approach to learning. And yet, a warning against it seems to saturate the church surrounding the long-time insistence to avoid "the letter of the law".

The Spirit needs to be involved eventually in everything we do. Early in our walk with God we must learn, but the learning is not by our flesh [our brain] alone. If that were the case, people with the best brains and the best study habits would be the closest to God. God knows what he gave to each person. What He expects and desires from us is all that we have whether we are above average or below average in intelligence as men measure it. Yes, it includes the use of our minds, but only as He directs and leads. Jeremiah words also still apply:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23
People in Jeremiah's day had brain just like we do. What they needed is what we need, a Director to lead us along His Way!

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Ps 119:5

We can ever learn and not come to the knowledge of the truth (2 Tim. 3:7), granted, but that speaks, really, of not having a heart to the truth. That isn't to say a simple student's approach to study must not be attempted, that somehow some mystical presence must be present during our mere reading or the rehashing of notes we took from a sermon.

You can name it "some mystical presence", but I name it the Holy Spirit that gives Life to that which we consume from the words of a Bible teacher/preacher or the words of the Bible that read or study:

"[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

The greatest reason why believers do not study is because they have never been taught, and then when they hear that they could be wasting their time with the letter of the law, that does little to encourage right study habits. I was a Christian for seven years before I l learned how to search the Scriptures. It developed as a result of my attending twice daily teachings for over a year, and going over my notes. Sadly, that sort of setting is not used in many places of worship, and the teachings, if there are any, are not systematic and based on principles found throughout the Bible, as opposed to a verse-by-verse approach.

Hey, I am not against studying. I do it myself, but study without the Holy Spirit is dead and will have only dead results. The results are seen all around us: the results of the dead studies of men that build apparently great things but are unable to fix the broken and evil hearts of men.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Maybe a child's 'version' like the Living Bible might be a starting point for some. I really enjoy Kenneth Taylor's paraphrase, because as I read through it, sometimes things would be revealed to me that I didn't know was in Scripture. So, I would go and check it out in a translation to see if it was so. So, it was a very educational adventure for me.

Absolutely. I got saved reading a Living Bible actually. Granted, I eventually found it to be a terrible mess when I got into serous studies later in life, but I'm not the type to go around saying God can't use the paraphrases. He has, does, and will. You just have to recognize them for what they are is all. At higher levels of education in the things of God, they need to be set aside.

Never heard of the Kenneth Taylor paraphrase, btw.

 

[amadeus]

Certainly. But I've found that even when led of the Holy Spirit, as He reveals to you true interpretation from false, study can be a lot of hard work. There's a ton of checking and cross-checking, and often the need to dig into extensive amounts of reference material. An interpretation has to coincide with an exacting analysis of the original languages or the languages will expose it as false.

Being led of the Spirit is primary. But after this, scholarship and education become necessary in confirming what the Spirit is showing you regarding scripture interpretation.

This study thing is simply a part of using all that God has given us... but why is it that so often two or more earnest Bible students will have contradictory conclusions based on their Bible studies? Paul's words simplify the answer:

"Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:17

Are we studying more than we are praying?

"Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!" Phil 4:4

Are we studying more than we are rejoicing?

Why are we not praying and rejoicing at all times during our studies?

Impossible man says, but...

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

And then...

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

Why is He is us... if He is? How about to do the impossible things, such as praying and rejoicing continuously without interruption?

But then although the Holy Spirit is in us and Jesus is in us, we quench the Holy Spirit and we wonder why there are disagreements between men..., Each one may say that he always puts the kingdom and righteousness of God first but does he really? Is each of them, that is each of us, selfless always or selfish much of the time?

 

[Stan B]

Absolutely. I got saved reading a Living Bible.

Never heard of the Kenneth Taylor paraphrase, btw.

Dr. Kenneth Taylor was the one who wrote ‘The Living Bible’ as a Bible his kids and other children could understand. The stress of this undertaking, damaged his vocal cords beyond repair, which left him with the inability to communicate verbally for the remainder Of his life. An awesome icon of the Faith!

 

[Hope in God]

What Solomon wrote regarding study, even study of the scriptures, in our flesh alone is a weariness. What Apostle Paul wrote admonished us to read and to study, but the purpose shown is to meet with God's approval by our obedience, NOT in order to learn. God provided another way to learn.

A person reading and studying the Bible with the wrong attitude, that is with the wrong spirit [Not the Holy Spirit] will obtain also the wrong result. Consider how much an atheist receives when he reads the Bible only with the purpose of convincing true believers that they are in error. If he is really seeking truth, God may allow him to see some Light, but if his wrong attitude continues, his wrong results will continued to be obtained.

The Way to Truth is seen here:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26study habits would be the closest to God. God knows what he gave to each person. What He expects and desires from us is all that we have whether we are above average or below average in intelligence as men measure it. Yes, it includes the use of our minds, but only as He directs and leads. Jeremiah words also still apply:.

As I maintain, as long as there is another prescription for putting all our ducks in a row, for dotting all our i's and crossing all our t's, the opening of the Word of God to a naive Christian will mean he must sufficiently adopt a presumed methodology. Just read and let the Lord do as He has promised, to lead and guide into all truth, for it is God Who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. It is He that will make our way perfect, Who will perfect that which is lacking in our faith, and the One Who will arise from off the pages, for they testify of Him.

One of the major failings of the church today is the insistence upon formulas and methodologies that will force God to move when all we need do is to love the Lord our God with all our hearts, and with all our souls, and with all our MINDS. Within the soul is the mind, the heart, emotions, intents, imaginations, and will. I'm not assuming we are addressing atheists on this forum. The people here are Christians, if I have that right. They have regenerated spirits, are learning slowly to mortify the deeds of the flesh, lay aside every weight, run the race, and, through proper study habits will begin to understand what is not wood, hay and stubble.

Ravi Zacharias' great effort to reach the world is through the intellect, the mind. It is the part that he rightly judges to be the least exercised in the body of Christ. There are huge pockets of anti-intellectuals throughout the body of Christ, which has slowed the ability to answer many of the hard questions posed by the world to believers. The mind is a terrible thing to waste, and he well knows this by the title of his programs, "Let My People Think".

As a young Christian I was very early told that there was no value to my reading until God breaths on it. Much time I wasted waiting for that breath to turn anything I read into flesh, or revelation. Instead, I learned that it is good for me to take His yoke upon me and LEARN of Him, partially by giving heed to reading, and let God be God.