Election, Reprobation, as taught in Church History.

[Iconoclast]

Election and Calling: A Biblical/Theological Study (Dr. Greg Welty, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary

Election is grounded in God’s will Election is grounded in God’s will, specifically, his will to love us, his will to be gracious to us, and his will to fulfill his purpose for us. Far from some cold, analytical move on God’s part, it was “In love [that] He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (vv. 45). It was “to the praise of the glory of his grace” (v. 6) that he so predestined us, indeed, “according to the riches of His grace” (v. 7).
Notice that in this passage our will and what we do with it is never mentioned as the basis of God’s choice. In fact, Paul repeatedly and emphatically draws our attention to God’s will as the foundation of our salvation. “He predestined us to adoption as sons,” not according to (or on the basis of) our will to choose him, but “according to the kind intention of His will” (v. 5). What is relevant in explaining the divine gift of salvation is “the mystery of His will” and “His kind intention” toward us (v. 9), not the mystery of our will or our kind intention toward him.7 Paul says “He chose us” (v. 4), and God chose us not because we were holy enough to make the right choice for him, but so “that we would be holy and blameless before him” (v. 4). In other words, election is unto holiness, not because of holiness. Verse 11 is especially clear that election is grounded in God’s will: “having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will” (v. 11). In other words, God is a certain kind of God – a God “who works all things after the counsel of His will” – and it is “according to the purpose” of that kind of God that we have “been predestined.”

Thus, Paul understands and accounts for the spiritual predestination of individuals in light of the broader, more general truth that God works (‘ενεργεω’) “all things” (not just some things) according to the purpose, intention, plan (‘βουλη’) of his will. Our particular predestination to salvation is just part of a larger purpose that embraces all events. Unconditional election is not some perplexing anomaly in our portrait of God, something to be explained away or passed over in embarrassment. Rather, in v. 11 Paul sees it as a natural consequence of his larger doctrine of God and his providence.

 

[Iconoclast]

J. L.Dagg;
As Dagg rightly asserts, it is the testimony of Scriptures we must square our theology. Following his introduction, Dagg shows how the Scriptures:

1) “clearly teach, that God has an elect or chosen people” (309)
2) “teach expressly, that God’s people are chosen to salvation” (309)
3) “plainly teach that the election of grace is from eternity” (310)
4) “teach that election is of grace, and not of works” (311)
5) “teach that election is according to the foreknowledge of God” (312)
Concerning election based on foreseen faith, Dagg writes:

From the views which have been presented, it necessarily follows, that election is not on the ground of foreseen faith or obedience. On this point, the teachings of Scripture are clear. They are chosen not because of their holiness, but that they may be holy; not because of their obedience, but unto obedience. As the discrimination made in effectual calling is God’s work, and antecedent to all holiness, faith, or acceptable obedience; the purpose to discriminate could not be on the ground of acts foreseen, which do not exist as a consideration for the execution of the purpose. The discriminating grace which God bestows, is not on the ground of faith and obedience previously existing, bur for a reason known only to God himself. This unrevealed reason, and not foreseen faith and obedience, is the ground of election (312).

I think many Southern Baptists do not realize that the doctrine of unconditional election (along with the entire doctrines of grace) is historic Baptist theology. Yet it is to no one’s surprise that the doctrine of election received a considerable amount of opposition as it does today. As a follow-up to Dagg on election, I will share how he handles the issue of reprobation and double predestination.

 

[Truman]

I am what I am, a child of the great I Am, by the blood of the Lamb, the Lamb who was slain.
I'm precious in His sight, the apple of His eye, I am fearfully and wonderfully made!
You knew me, You formed me, You chose me, You called me.
You love me, just like You love Yeshua, You delight in me!

Thank You, Father, for each unique individual made in Your image!

 

[Stumpmaster]

It is not Predetermined Reprobation that is declared in John 3:16-21, but Predetermined Condemnation of Voluntary Reprobation

• Joh 3:16-21 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (17) For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. (21) But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

 

[Iconoclast]

It is not Predetermined Reprobation that is declared in John 3:16-21, but Predetermined Condemnation of Voluntary Reprobation

• Joh 3:16-21 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (17) For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. (21) But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Good post, on topic and adds to the discussion.

 

[Iconoclast]

From A Baptist Catechism with Commentary,by W.R. Downing

Quest. 64: Did God leave all mankind to perish under condemnation in the state of sin and misery? A

ns: God having, out of his good pleasure from eternity, elected some to everlasting life, did enter into a Covenant of Grace to deliver them out of the state of sin and misery, and to bring them into a state of salvation by a Redeemer. Rom. 3:24–26. 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 2 Thess. 2:13–14. 13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. Eph. 1:3–7. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

See also: Jn. 17:1–10; Acts 4:12; Rom. 3:19–25; 5:11–21; 8:11–23, 28–39; 9:6–24; 11:5–6; Eph. 2:11–19; Col. 2:9–14; 1 Thess. 1:4–5; 5:9; 1 Pet. 1:1–2, 18–20. 117 COMMENTARY How may sinners be declared righteous in God’s sight and have their sins forgiven? How can we be reconciled to God? How can we be freed from the guilt, penalty, pollution and reigning power of sin? How can we escape the necessary, certain and dreadful judgment of God (Matt. 3:7; 2 Thess. 1:7–9; Heb. 10:26–31)? How can we obtain forgiveness of our sins?
These questions are answered in the glorious biblical truth that God in free and sovereign grace, according to his eternal purpose, chose some in Christ—a multitude which no man can number—to be redeemed from among fallen mankind (Rom. 8:28–39; Eph. 1:3–14; Rev. 7:9). He accomplishes this redemption— forgives, justifies and reconciles sinners to himself, adopts them and sanctifies them, and yet remains holy, righteous and immutable—through the Lord Jesus Christ, the God–Man, the Mediator and only Redeemer (Rom. 3:21– 26). Salvation, or the redemption of sinners, derives from God, not man. It is not the sinful, miserable state of man by nature that is the source or root cause of salvation; it is rather the moral self–consistency [absolute righteousness] of God.
The glorious message of the gospel is that there is deliverance from self, from the reigning power of sin, from the wrath and condemnation of God, through the Person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ. This gospel came from God in his loving kindness,
not man in his willful state of sinful misery and rebellion.
The redemptive work of our Lord—his active and passive obedience—has answered the just claims of God against sinners for whom he died, enabling God to be morally self–consistent, yet loving, gracious and forgiving (Rom. 3:25–26).
The purpose of God to redeem sinners was not an afterthought; it did not begin when or after man fell and apostatized in Adam. God’s redemptive purpose is eternal. It began before the beginning of time in the eternal counsel of the triune God
It was manifest in time and history in the redemption accomplished by our Lord Jesus Christ in his earthly life, suffering, death and resurrection. It is being evidenced in time and experience as God calls, regenerates, converts justifies and sanctifies his people. It will be consummated in future glory in the full, final redemption of God’s elect in their glorification (Rom. 8:17–23; 1 Jn. 3:1–3).

Quest. 78: What is the ministry of Divine grace in the salvation and experience of the believer? 143 Ans: The ministry of Divine grace in the salvation and experience of the believer is comprehensive: electing, redeeming, calling, renewing, enabling, justifying, adopting, sanctifying, resurrecting and glorifying the believer.

 

[marks]

If you google the term it has been used to describe the 5 links of this unbreakable chain. We are not glorified yet, but for a blood-bought Child of God that is part of our inheritance with the saints in love.
29
1]For whom he did foreknow,

2] he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

3]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:

4]and whom he called, them he also justified:

5]and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Do you find it interesting that ALL are in the same past tense?

Much love!

 

[Iconoclast]

ibid;
The Scriptures distinguish between an outward or external, general call to salvation which is to be made through the free offer of the gospel to all men without discrimination or distinction, and the personal, internal, effectual call to salvation. This distinction is made by context and implication, i.e., the doctrinal context in which the term occurs (e.g., Jn. 6:44–45; Rom. 8:28–30; 1 151 Tim. 1:9; 1 Pet. 2:9), the implications of that context (e.g., Rom. 9:23–24; Eph. 4:1; Heb. 9:15), or the contrast with the general call (e.g., Matt. 22:14) serve to make the necessary distinction.
This individual, internal or effectual call to salvation has been variously termed “the effectual call,” “effectual calling,” “irresistible grace,” “infallible grace,” or “efficacious grace” to distinguish it from the outward and general call through the gospel. The gospel is to be preached to all men without distinction or discrimination (Matt. 28:18–20; Mk. 16:15; Lk. 24:47; Acts 1:8; 17:30–31).
This gospel proclamation—the “free offer” of the gospel—declares that God is absolutely righteous and holy, and that he is sworn to punish sin; that man by nature is fallen, sinful, and under Divine wrath and condemnation; and that redemption has been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ for sinners through his active and passive obedience. Sinners are urged to turn from their sin in repentance and look to Jesus Christ in faith as Lord and Savior, and thus be forgiven of their sins and be reconciled unto God through the imputed righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. Sinners must believe (Acts 16:31), and they must repent (Mk. 1:15; Acts 17:31; 26:18–20). If sinners come to Christ in saving faith and repentance, they will be saved—delivered from and forgiven of their sins and be reconciled to a righteous, just and holy God (Jn. 6:37; Rom. 3:23–26)

 

[Iconoclast]

marks,

[Do you find it interesting that ALL are in the same past tense?]

From the Divine side it is finished and certain.
It unfolds in real time.
You see the same language used in Lk and Mt, when Jesus birth was being announced;

66 And all they that heard them laid them up in their hearts, saying, What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him.

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

King James Version (KJV)

 

[GISMYS_7]

Do not try to deny the Truth of God's Word.
Yes!! 1 Timothy 2:4

God==“Who wants all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
Why not accept the gift of God? But your choice accept or reject!

 

[Iconoclast]

Do not try to deny the Truth of God's Word.
Yes!! 1 Timothy 2:4

God==“Who wants all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
Why not accept the gift of God? But your choice accept or reject!

I do not at all. I just know Jesus saves ALL the Father gives to Him.
No more,no less.
Jesus taught that...jn 6 :37

Looks like you are avoiding 25 posts of biblical teaching and parroting one verse

 

[marks]

From the Divine side it is finished and certain.

So written as "past tense" but meaning "future tense"? It says already done, but it means not yet done?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Looks like you are avoiding 25 posts of biblical teaching and parroting one verse

Massive blocks of writing, when the answer is simple.

:)

 

[marks]

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Aren't these statements of intent?

Whereas . . .

Romans 8:29-30 KJV
29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30) Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Called . . . Justified . . . Glorified.

Which one is not like the others?

I mention this because it goes towards how we read and interpret the Bible. I ask myself, is it possible it might mean what it actually says?

Given that we have a celestial body now, living eternal in the heavenly realm, that we are seated in that realm with Christ, hid with Christ in God, might this not be glory? Might we just not be seeing the glory God has already given us, in Christ?

Just as we don't "see" our calling, we don't "see" our justification, but we accept them as real by faith, why not glorification?

I'm not saying there isn't more glory that God may bestow, I think there is. I'm not dogmatic on whether this passage refers to glory promised, or glory given. But I don't know why not to read it just like it is written.

Much love!

 

[marks]

From the views which have been presented, it necessarily follows, that election is not on the ground of foreseen faith or obedience.

Actually, Jesus is the "Elect Servant",

Isaiah 42:1-4 KJV
1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4) He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

And we are elect in Him,

Ephesians 1:4 KJV
4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God did not pick out some to live with Him in joy and love eternally, and some to suffer in shame and torment eternally. God desires all to come to salvation.

We receive such blessings as we receive "in Christ", and nothing outside of Christ.

Ephesians 1:3 KJV
3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

We receive "election" "in Christ". If any be in Christ he is a new creation. We believe and are baptized - immersed - into Christ.

We receive the forgiveness of sins.
We receive new life.
We receive all Christ has. He shares with us, including that Jesus Christ is the Elect Servant, and in Him, we likewise are Elect.

We aren't, as it were, being gathered to the Father. We are being gathered together into Christ, and in Him we share what He has. The Father loves us just as He loves the Son.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In other words, God is a certain kind of God – a God “who works all things after the counsel of His will” – and it is “according to the purpose” of that kind of God that we have “been predestined.”

Rather,

Romans 10:9-10 KJV
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If you do these things. Not if they are done for you. If you do them.

It seems to me that God's immutable will is that Man must choose.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I just know Jesus saves ALL the Father gives to Him.
No more,no less.
Jesus taught that...jn 6 :37

John 6:35-40 KJV
35) And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36) But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:28-33 KJV
28) Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29) The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30) Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31) Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33) This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Until the cross, the Father drew people to Jesus. After the cross, Jesus draws all men to Himself.

Matthew 28:18-19 KJV
18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jesus came to do the Father's will, and submitted Himself accordingly. Now authority is given Him. Before, it was the Father's will to draw certain ones to Jesus. Now, Jesus draws all men to Himself.

What does He say? "All authority is given me. So go and make disciples of all nations."

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

3. It is once used for a choice made of' salvation by an individual. Luke 10:42. "Mary hath chosen the good part which shall not be taken away from her."

How can this Scripture be used to support election unto salvation? Lazarus, Mary, and Martha were all saved by grace through faith before this was stated. They had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. Mary was more intent on hearing what Jesus had to say while Martha was more intent on serving Him.

Election cannot possibly be for salvation, since God commands all men everywhere to repent. Which means that God desires the salvation of all human beings.

 

[marks]

Election is grounded in God’s will Election is grounded in God’s will, specifically, his will to love us, his will to be gracious to us, and his will to fulfill his purpose for us. Far from some cold, analytical move on God’s part, it was “In love [that] He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (vv. 45). It was “to the praise of the glory of his grace” (v. 6) that he so predestined us, indeed, “according to the riches of His grace” (v. 7).

Something key to understanding this, I think, is that all things that come to us from God come through Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, He Who is our brother and our judge, our Creator, and our Lover. And Jesus invites everyone come to Him, all who are weary, and His offer is not disengenuous, some cover or disguise for what God is really doing.

Those who come to Jesus are predestined to be adopted. When we believe "into" Christ we share His Sonship. We share all He has, and we have nothing outside of "in Christ". This is so important to understand so we can know what our life in Christ really is.

Much love!

 

[Iconoclast]

It might help if you work through the material that is offered because just making things up doesn't make them be true.
I will address these errors in a little while