Electing New Pope

[BeyondET]

Bottome line:
If you don't know anything about the Catholic Church - and it's obvious that you don't - then you shouldn't go around making up false claims about it.

You shouldn't make false claims about ANYBODY or ANY group.

Cause you don't believe it and probably others think it's false that the Catholic have made changes over the years I've read another one is in the moral laws of the church. They don't admit it for what ever reason.

History shows the church has changed its moral teachings
The List: The Catholic Church's Biggest Reversals

 

[BeyondET]

The part about compassion that I mentioned isn't probably wide spread idea I apologize for that but this catholic below mentions it which I can't see the compassion idea but i do like the idea of it being catastrophic if the party wasn't a hit for the family would of been bad for years. And I think mary was related to the people having the wedding maybe a niece or nephew the whole family went so.

Catholiceducation.org
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

 

[BeyondET]

Since four rounds of balloting are taken every day until a candidate receives two-thirds of the vote. In the past, 15 to 20 days after a papal vacancy, the cardinals gathered in St. Peter's Basilica for a Mass invoking the guidance of the Holy Spirit in electing a new Pope. Only cardinals under the age of 80 are eligible to vote in a conclave.

Question: What makes a "cardinal" incorruptible?

For example, a Pope is voted in by cardinals, what makes a cardinal worthy? is it an exam or test he must pass? And, if so, then couldn't anyone pass that same exam and then be worthy to vote in a Pope. Haven't some early Popes bought their way into the papacy?


Is not the Pope voted into an incorruptible office by corruptible man? And, once in power, have not a few proceeded to become drunken with power, deeming heresies? And, being equal to scripture authority may say NO MORE SOLA SCRIPTURA?


Athanasius Creed:
Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

That's quite a statement. Is that designed to keep life long customers? And, this is coming from an incorruptible office?

I love the Catholic people, but hate certain doctrines of those in authority over them.

Been a few changes in that doctrine as well over the years. In the early years they didn't have much control over the Roman empire. the choice was really that of the emperor: He chooses the pope and the clergy does the rubber stamping.

 

[Illuminator]

Buncha commentary garbage.

Quote the scripture.

The link is loaded with scripture, you are just afraid to read it.
No Papacy in the NT? Think Again (vs. Jason Engwer)

 

[Illuminator]

Been a few changes in that doctrine as well over the years. In the early years they didn't have much control over the Roman empire. the choice was really that of the emperor: He chooses the pope and the clergy does the rubber stamping.

Another empty airhead assertion with no evidence.

 

[Illuminator]

The part about compassion that I mentioned isn't probably wide spread idea I apologize for that but this catholic below mentions it which I can't see the compassion idea but i do like the idea of it being catastrophic if the party wasn't a hit for the family would of been bad for years. And I think mary was related to the people having the wedding maybe a niece or nephew the whole family went so.

Catholiceducation.org
Knowing Mary Through the Bible: New Wine, New Eve

Thank you for that excellent article.

 

[BeyondET]

Another empty airhead assertion with no evidence.

Instead of making a airhead statement why don't you look up the history before speaking about something you didn't know yourself.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Papal Elections
After Constantine had given peace to the Church, the Christian Roman emperors often took part in the institution of a new pope and at times their influence was very marked. From the fourth century onwards, therefore, a new force had to be reckoned with. The occasion for the interference of the Roman emperors and later of the kings of Italy was afforded by disputed elections to the papal chair.

 

[BeyondET]

Thank you for that excellent article.

Your welcome I enjoyed the article myself and agree with alot that was said.

 

[Truther]

The link is loaded with scripture, you are just afraid to read it.
No Papacy in the NT? Think Again (vs. Jason Engwer)

Commentary garbage.

All religions are introduced via commentary.

There is a slice for every tastebud.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not talking about an apostolic mandate. Where did that come from? I'm talking about an institution that literally altered the ten commandments to suit it's own agenda, and to harmonize with the popular traditions of pagan Rome. And that change had zilch to do with any perceived fulfillment of Christ and the Sabbath. Any tangible justification for that particular theory vanishes into vapor the moment you write it down. And no-one in catholicism attempts to justify Sunday on account of any biblical reasoning. As those quotes above testify. You need to read a little history from your church's own councils to discover it's attitude to Sabbath keeping. It encompasses the same belligerence and hatred for the Sabbath as you do..

Ahhhhh – so, since YOU haven’t quoted any Catholics with regard to the Scriptural evidence for Sunday observance – you automatically come to the conclusion that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify it with Scripture.

This is nothing bur arrogance on YOUR part – but has NO BASIS in fact.

The Didache
1. But every Lord’s day do ye gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.
(Didache Chapter XIV.11 —Christian Assembly on the Lord’s Day. 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
Further, He says to them, “Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure.” Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with ness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.(The Epistle of Barnabas Chapter XV.—The false and the true Sabbath. [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master
(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught
them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian
“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).
It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary. For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do
therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath
(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Cyprian
For because the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, was to be that on which the Lord should rise again, and should quicken us, and give us circumcision of the spirit, the eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath, and the Lord’s day, went before in the figure; which figure ceased when by and by the truth came, and spiritual circumcision was given to us.
(Epistle LVIII.2 To Fidus, on the Baptism of Infants. 4)

Eusebius of Caesarea
“They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing Sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things”
(Church History 1:4:8 [A.D. 312]).
“[T]he day of his [Christ’s] light . . . was the day of his resurrection from the dead, which they say, as being the one and only truly holy day and the Lord’s day, is better than any number of days as we ordinarily understand them, and better than the days set apart by the Mosaic law for feasts, new moons, and Sabbaths, which the apostle [Paul] teaches are the shadow of days and not days in reality”(Proof of the Gospel 4:16:186 [A.D. 319]).

Council of Laodicea
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord’s Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.(Canon Canon XXIX. [A.D. 360]).

Augustine of Hippo
So he says elsewhere, “Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon or of the sabbath-days, which are a shadow of things to come.” Here also, when he says, “Let no one judge you” in these things, he shows that we are no longer bound to observe them. And when he says, “which are a shadow of things to come,” he explains how these observances were binding at the time when the things fully disclosed to us were symbolized by these shadows of future things.
(Reply to Faustus the Manichæan. Book VI-2

So much for your FALSE claims that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify it with Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, Jesus would NEVER have been quoted but for books.
Moronic, to say the least.

Ummmm, that’s NOT what Luke 1o:16 says.

Jesus said whoever lietens to or rejects His Church listens to or rejects HIM.
Congratulations, Einstein – that’s exactly what you’ve done.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Cause you don't believe it and probably others think it's false that the Catholic have made changes over the years I've read another one is in the moral laws of the church. They don't admit it for what ever reason.
History shows the church has changed its moral teachings
The List: The Catholic Church's Biggest Reversals

FIVE TIMES now - and you're STILL completely unable to name a SINGLE doctrine.

Complete FAIL . . .

 

[Brakelite]

Ahhhhh – so, since YOU haven’t quoted any Catholics with regard to the Scriptural evidence for Sunday observance – you automatically come to the conclusion that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify it with Scripture.

Actually, I quoted Catholic sources that stated quite categorically that there is no scriptural foundation for Sunday observance. And I agree with them.

So much for your FALSE claims that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify it with Scripture.

8th day?

• Give me one biblical example from the NT wherein the 8th day is a day of holy convocation.
• Give me one example of apostolic teaching that states the 1st day (not the 8th) replaces the 7th as a holy day.
• Give me one statement from scripture that incorporates a "thus sayeth the Lord" , suggesting the Creator, that is Jesus (the Lord of the Sabbath) had removed the sanctity and holiness from the 7th day.

Those people you quote mean nothing to me if they need to invent concepts (8th day) in order to establish doctrine, and cannot, not once any of them, actually quote scripture with any relevance.
One actually suggests creation as the foundation of the week, then suggests the week has 8 days. Give me a break.

 

[Illuminator]

Cause you don't believe it and probably others think it's false that the Catholic have made changes over the years I've read another one is in the moral laws of the church. They don't admit it for what ever reason.

History shows the church has changed its moral teachings

Fr. Curran should be grateful he didn't get thrown out of the priesthood. He got a job teaching Methodists who are in a state of schism over moral issues.

The List: The Catholic Church's Biggest Reversals

A bit of truth mixed in with false histories. Looks like a lefty political site.

 

[Enoch111]

Is not the Pope voted into an incorruptible office by corruptible man?

Right. Instead of electing a new pope, the cardinals should say "An end to popery. Enough of this farce. Look at the damage Francis has done".

 

[Truther]

Ummmm, that’s NOT what Luke 1o:16 says.

Jesus said whoever lietens to or rejects His Church listens to or rejects HIM.
Congratulations, Einstein – that’s exactly what you’ve done.

Luke is a book.

LOL

 

[Illuminator]

Right. Instead of electing a new pope, the cardinals should say "An end to popery. Enough of this farce. Look at the damage Francis has done".

It's up to the laity to pray that the cardinals listen to the Holy Spirit to elect the best man for the job. Pope Francis deals head on with the concerns of today, not your 16th century politics that you are a slave to. What damage, exactly, are you referring to? The "damage" according to hysterical reactionaries?

I haven’t found yet where he is at fault in these 10 million clueless accusations thrown at him (certainly not in any major way). People can say that I simply defend him no matter what if they wish. I was accused of the same with regard to St. John Paul the Great, too. Nothing new under the sun. I’ve done the research and made the arguments; including writing an entire book about it. Anyone is welcome to try to overthrow them, rather than simply say, “well, hey, ten of my friends think his foot is permanently in his mouth, too!”

I’ve yet to find a seriously troubling thing from this pope. But because of the above shortcomings and the stupid, cynical “narrative” that has been created by a long string of these trumped-up, ridiculous “incidents” (fed and fueled by the equally uncomprehending secular media, whose ramblings people enthusiastically sop up like a sponge), the current “feeding frenzy” will, unfortunately, continue.

We make a spectacle of ourselves the longer we do this. Here I’m trying my best as an apologist to defend Holy Mother Church as the fullness of truth and the best, biblical ecclesiology, and we have so-called Catholic “conservatives” out there every day bashing the pope because he said something that they, in their infinite wisdom, have the greatest difficulty in reading, interpreting, and comprehending. It’s asinine and absurd.

I truly wonder, and would ask people who think like this: “if you can’t handle a pope and a papacy and you are unwilling to submit yourself to it, and him, and show proper consideration and respect, why do you bother being a Catholic at all? Why are you not consistently part of a communion that doesn’t recognize the papacy?”

If all you think of the papacy is that it must always be a person who agrees with you in every jot and tittle and triviality, then that’s not a papacy at all. It’s an idol of your own making: having rejected the true Catholic notion of willing submission to God-given authority, and having adopted purely Protestant private judgment, where you have the final say in everything, rather than Holy Mother Church and the Holy Father who leads the One True Church.

In fact, I think it’s gone well beyond merely acting like Protestants or modernists. I would have never acted so stupidly even as an evangelical Protestant. I had far more respect for the pope than these clowns do.
The Ridiculous “Anti-Francis” Mentality: My Theory in Brief

Pope Francis vs. the Gospel? Outrageous & Absurd Lies!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually, I quoted Catholic sources that stated quite categorically that there is no scriptural foundation for Sunday observance. And I agree with them.

8th day?

• Give me one biblical example from the NT wherein the 8th day is a day of holy convocation.
• Give me one example of apostolic teaching that states the 1st day (not the 8th) replaces the 7th as a holy day.
• Give me one statement from scripture that incorporates a "thus sayeth the Lord" , suggesting the Creator, that is Jesus (the Lord of the Sabbath) had removed the sanctity and holiness from the 7th day.

Those people you quote mean nothing to me if they need to invent concepts (8th day) in order to establish doctrine, and cannot, not once any of them, actually quote scripture with any relevance.
One actually suggests creation as the foundation of the week, then suggests the week has 8 days. Give me a break.

WRONG.

YOU falsely claimed that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify Sunday observance in place of the Sabbath in Scripture.
I gave you SEVERAL Church Fathers who did just THAT.

Some of them used the term, “8th Day” in a purely symbolic sense – NOT in a literal sense, since there are only SEVEN days in a week. Some of them use the term “1st Day”, alluding to Sunday – and some of them flatly state, “SUNDAY”.

Finally – I don’t care if these people mean “Nothing” to YOU. That wasn’t the point.
YOU made a FALSE claim that “NO ONE in Catholicism” attempts to justify Sunday observance using Scripture – and you got exposed for lying.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luke is a book.
LOL

Yes, one that you have apparently never read Einstein . . .

 

[amigo de christo]

Keep resisting the lies of the CC my friends . And let us point to Christ .