Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus In the context of 1 Corinthians 14, Paul is talking about avoiding tongues which do not edify. Like, if someone blasts notes from an instrument carelessly, how does it produce a meaningful tune?

forgot it was speaking of tongues. Was mainly focused on ‘without life giving sound’. I’m so confused and not understanding soul and spirit. Was primarily studying ‘the last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) spirit’
1 Corinthians 14:7 helps ‘And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?’

Charity. Without Charity, without ‘the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit’ ... though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit), I am nothing. [3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit), it profiteth me nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:2-3

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity (the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit)...


1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

 

[farouk]

forgot it was speaking of tongues. Was mainly focused on ‘without life giving sound’. I’m so confused and not understanding soul and spirit. Was primarily studying ‘the last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) spirit’
1 Corinthians 14:7 helps ‘And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?’

Charity. Without Charity, without ‘the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit’ ... though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity (the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit), I am nothing. [3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit), it profiteth me nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:2-3

1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow after charity (the last Adam made a quickening (life giving) spirit)...


1 Corinthians 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

@VictoryinJesus 1 Thessalonians 5.23 has an interesting reference to spirit, soul and body: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[bbyrd009]

belief has the power to give life?

of a sort, sure; you use dollars, dont you? Belief is the only reason why!

not understanding soul and spirit.

life and soul are the same root in Scripture, ViJ

 

[justbyfaith]

I just want it point out that the last Adam became a quickening spirit in Luke 23:46...

 

[bbyrd009]

I just want it point out that the last Adam became a quickening spirit in Luke 23:46...

hmm, i woulda placed that at today I have become your Father myself--although i see the argument, equally true from another perspective i guess?--but interesting that Jesus did not commit His soul to Yah imo. Also no ghosts were given up, in the original.

 

[justbyfaith]

Notice that that Jesus was speaking of the temple of His body when he said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

 

[john t]

If you have to say "not being snarky"...

You could stand to dim your caps, btw.

I will post as I see fit. As long as the stuff I post does not break any rules here, your complaint about my writng style are of no matter to me


You remind me on another poster on another site to whom I gave the answers to the questions he asked. He also refused to look at them and learn something new.

I solved that issue by no longer posting to or seeing the poster's posts. The poster over there was an uneducated know nothing. wallowing in fear of something upsetting his erroneous belief system.

I am not posting about you, but I am doing that about the other poster on another web site..

 

[john t]

is adventist.org the official website for the SDA ?

Yes.

They copyrighted many variations of their name (and Ellen White) so that they can sue anyone who improperly uses their site name or her name.

 

[john t]

But not smug condescension.

Copy-and-paste all you like. In my 30 years as an Adventist, I have never been taught that the wicked are permanently destroyed at Christ's 2nd coming, nor that hellfire is an unbiblical doctrine. And neither has any other Adventist.

It is one thing to say (personal experience) "I have never been taught that doctrine." I have no reason to doubt your personal experience
It is quite a different matter to say that the SDA church does teach annihilation, and provide proof from official SDA websites which I did earlier

 

[BarneyFife]

Please cease your foolishness. If you continue as you have here, I have no difficulty in posting official contradictions of your untrue statements that "We SDAs do not believe XYZ nor do we teach that XYZ"

You have misinterpreted your copy-and-paste blurbs if you conclude that Adventists teach that the final destruction of the wicked occurs at the 2nd advent of Christ. And Adventists do not negate the doctrine of hellfire as you say; they simply teach it properly as taught in Scripture. I never claimed they don't teach annihilationism. Did I mention I've been an Adventist for 30 years of my adult life? Do you actually believe I don't know what they teach about end-time events? Really? You have to know it before you can join the church membership. I've resigned myself to your ill-mannered nature of communication so I'm going to try to ignore that from now on. No promises. You're pretty unruly.

 

[BarneyFife]

I am not posting about you, but I am doing that about the other poster on another web site..

Yes, you've been very successful and cunning about technically not insulting people. So you think.

 

[Brakelite]

mostly SDA) doctrine who believe that the dead heathens shall cease to exist when Christ returns.

Like I said. And I'll say it again. Make sure you know what you are talking about before criticising someone's beliefs. SDAs do not teach that sinners cease to exist when Christ returns.

 

[Brakelite]

meh, so then contradict Scripture, ok with me, speak as if you know, i am not offended
i even understand. i was raised to reason in hegelian myself, how can i condemn? You are forgiven, apparently. Good News, huh? But fwiw Samuel attests to merely rest right, who is it that disturbs my rest

you might consider that "live, die," we have only a poor grasp of these concepts anyway, maybe

but i would at least consider the optics there,
Yah: you do not yet know what you will become
Brakelite: actually, we do...guess you didnt notice i have a Cardinal as my avatar, pal, and like that see

which i made personal there, but that is of course common to us all i guess

My friend, I don't know of any other alternative other than life or death... Regardless of what those mean. I agree that life is unknown to us. No man has seen, heard, nor imagined what God has prepared etc. Yep, we don't know what will become as far as life is concerned.
But death... That's a little clearer although we cannot imagine what gnashing of teeth and wailing truly means that leads to that death.

 

[Giuliano]

No, blood is the soul/life of the flesh.

Specifically, the life is in the blood. Yes, we can say the blood is the life, but that's because the life is part of the blood or in the blood.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

The blood of animals has the same kind of life that human blood has. So the blood of animals could "atone" for humans in the way animals are like men. It could not fix other problems. The blood of Christ is a different kind of blood with a different kind of life.

 

[Giuliano]

seems to me that you have dodged the Q rather than repied to it, wadr
we are told that we are already gods, even though we are not immortals?

Ah, there is a problem there, or so it seems, no?

The gods can "die" when they take on human bodies. Their spirits do not die, but they still die like men since those bodies are not immortal.

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

 

[bbyrd009]

My friend, I don't know

...likely being the operative phrase there? :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Ah, there is a problem there, or so it seems, no?

The gods can "die" when they take on human bodies. Their spirits do not die, but they still die like men since those bodies are not immortal.

Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

so then put on immortality right, any three year old can show you how imo :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

we cannot imagine what gnashing of teeth and wailing truly means that leads to that death.

Maybe not but gnashing of teeth ‘we cannot imagine’; consider bitter blind hatred, biting and devouring leads to death?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The gods can "die" when they take on human bodies.

your post makes me think of: Philippians 2:7-8 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[Enoch111]

And Adventists do not negate the doctrine of hellfire as you say; they simply teach it properly as taught in Scripture. I never claimed they don't teach annihilationism.

So how can it be "properly as taught in Scripture" if it is Annihilationism? That is NOT what is taught in Scripture at all. No one is vaporized in hellfire.

THEOPEDIA
Annihilationism is the belief that the final fate of those who are not saved is literal and final death and destruction. It runs counter to the mainstream traditional Christian understanding of hell as eternal suffering and separation from God.

In contrast to the more traditional view, which holds that the wicked will remain conscious in hell forever, annhilationism teaches that, whether or not God may use hell to exact some conscious punishment for sins, he will eventually destroy or annihilate the wicked completely, leaving only the righteous to live on in immortality.