Dogmatic Christianity
- Thread starter Episkopos
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Certainly having grace as a default position is Christ-like and a great position to take as a Christian--at least for most Christians.
However, for those who are called to correction or prophecy or proclamation by the spiritual gift of God, it would be a disservice to God to water down the words of the Holy Spirit who speaks through them. In other words, yes, love and kindness, and consideration and even tact are best when the words are our own...but. But there is an exception. An example would be to consider what we would now have if any of the biblically named prophets were to have screened or edited the Spirit words that now make up the scriptures, with their own compromising terms whether for love or for fear. It would have resulted in no plumb line, no great contrast between light and darkness, and no clear reality, but rather the lukewarm mush of well intended men respecting men rather than God.
Don't misunderstand me however...most should never be so bold or foolish to speak their own understanding as the undisputable truth from God. Indeed, many do and that is an equally great disservice to God. Many make the gauge of their enthusiasm a license to speak with authority they do not have...at least not from God.
So, just as we should not assume to be forthright with our convictions based on our own understanding, we should also never assume to muzzle the Holy Spirit which was to include utterances from God unto all truth until the end. On the contrary, we should be expectant and inclined to yield if not make a way.
However, for those who are called to correction or prophecy or proclamation by the spiritual gift of God, it would be a disservice to God to water down the words of the Holy Spirit who speaks through them. In other words, yes, love and kindness, and consideration and even tact are best when the words are our own...but. But there is an exception. An example would be to consider what we would now have if any of the biblically named prophets were to have screened or edited the Spirit words that now make up the scriptures, with their own compromising terms whether for love or for fear. It would have resulted in no plumb line, no great contrast between light and darkness, and no clear reality, but rather the lukewarm mush of well intended men respecting men rather than God.
Don't misunderstand me however...most should never be so bold or foolish to speak their own understanding as the undisputable truth from God. Indeed, many do and that is an equally great disservice to God. Many make the gauge of their enthusiasm a license to speak with authority they do not have...at least not from God.
So, just as we should not assume to be forthright with our convictions based on our own understanding, we should also never assume to muzzle the Holy Spirit which was to include utterances from God unto all truth until the end. On the contrary, we should be expectant and inclined to yield if not make a way.
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Hello @Episkopos,
Listened here to your video, and would say dogmatic christianity is not where it is as. Where people point the finger and judge. Many people believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, but there are many people who are perhaps not mature yet and still children of God, and yet to fully get to the son or daughter part of their life in Christ yet. Encouragement and support is needed in those areas that are lacking for children, just as a parent would their children if they give them the time or day.
This is why the idea of 'subjective Christainity' works better, because it leaves it up to individuals if they are going to seek out or not, even though there are time where you are the one personally sharing things you know by the spirit which had come from the bible to others, they have to be willingly and decide to go and seek out that information.
There are those who need help though and can not read, too, and it's good to help those who are in need being poor like that, and not just poor money wise.
Those are just some of my thoughts, ideas, and opinion,
All the best,
Matthew
Listened here to your video, and would say dogmatic christianity is not where it is as. Where people point the finger and judge. Many people believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, but there are many people who are perhaps not mature yet and still children of God, and yet to fully get to the son or daughter part of their life in Christ yet. Encouragement and support is needed in those areas that are lacking for children, just as a parent would their children if they give them the time or day.
This is why the idea of 'subjective Christainity' works better, because it leaves it up to individuals if they are going to seek out or not, even though there are time where you are the one personally sharing things you know by the spirit which had come from the bible to others, they have to be willingly and decide to go and seek out that information.
There are those who need help though and can not read, too, and it's good to help those who are in need being poor like that, and not just poor money wise.
Those are just some of my thoughts, ideas, and opinion,
All the best,
Matthew
Agreed. And this is a constructive way to look at something we all need to consider.
What I see lacking is a proper balance in teaching. Most teachers have a bias....whether conservative or liberal. \as such these are just doing what people do in the power of the flesh...in their own understanding. What I encourage and support is to self-question all that one takes as truth...and listen to opposite or contrary teachings...in order to get some perspective. When we find something that is supported by the WHOLE counsel of God...then we are on to something.
What about a "spiritual Christianity?"..where intimacy with God is both encouraged and nurtured. God is Spirit. Those who would know Him intimately must do so in Spirit and truth.
Of course we are free to follow Christ from whatever distance we are comfortable with. No one forces people to surrender all to Christ. That is on a voluntary basis, as the Lord wills.
We can't help anyone unless their ego gets out of the way. But in general, agreed! :)
Peace <><
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Episkopos,
I noticed a lot of people on the forum here give you a lot flack. You're just as human as the rest of us, and from my perspective I have come to realize the dogmatic stances and also the dogmatic uses of scripture are not constructive and in some way can damage others. I believe it is possible that the damage of a lot of people has been done by my own beliefs and criticisms, shared here on this board. And many people are skeptical of dealing with me at this point which is a joy because when rarity comes about its a joy to participate in questions, even if I could be wrong. That is the humble part of us letting God work on the individual and also give them room to seek and search for an answer and not just believe - me - cause I will always let you down.
The same perspective you see there, resides with me too. Yes you are right, teachers do have a bias, however all of us as humans do. There are several definition of types of biases, Information bias, selection bias, confirmation bias and confounding bias. There could be more, with-in those three types - like prejudice, judgemental, sexist, exploitation, probably or I could be getting the information mixed up; perhaps you could share with me your thoughts on this.
The thing that gets me, yes, there is very conservative or liberal as you mentioned in the video which makes a lot of since, one of them dealt with holiness, and one with righteousness. Is again I suppose the issues with being biases in the first place.
It tends to leave - well they dont believe like me - or they said something that I did not like, therefore they are attacking my character or something to that effect, as Christians everything should be done gently and with love, and with the ability for people to seek, and do the work themselves, if they so desire to learn and grow about what the bible does say if they so desire that you know, and as being brothers of believers, to encourage is a good thing and that is something that I can support always.
The whole bible, is better than just verse here verse there, though some verses can be selective and taught during a teaching of a full context, you know? At least I believe that is helpful in manners of teaching and I believe God will let anyone teach if they are going by the spirit - on any matters - such as Gods wrath, or any other subject matter in the bible, and some things are literal, figurative, and there are some thing needed to be understood spiritually. I dont even know everything but I have ideas from what the bible in a whole gives - love. Always, your enemies, encourage and support to keep faith and not fall in to disbelief.
There is nothing wrong with that title, as all Christians become spiritually born again, however, individually - (As I dont see the need for Pastors or even teachers though we can consider what they say), people are able to go to God, and read the bible (if they are able to read). There are literal, figurative, and spiritual things all founded in the bible, and a lot of information to consider. There is nothing wrong with learning from others, as you make some good points in my opinion, and I have no qualms with nor see the reason to have qualms with you, as a brother who is a believer in the DBR. It is true that those who worship God, must worship him in spirit and truth, and when they come to the truth, that truth should be able to give them liberty in Christ, to think, and also be encouraged by others even if their opinion or their view may be slightly off, - to love is so important because without it we are nothing and that is why I suggested "subjective" as a title.
All the best in love to you, thank you for even taking a moment to comment,
Matthew
This is a fallacy, there is no such thing as ' spiritual christianity '.
Jesus said if you Love me, you will Obey my commands and Jesus's commands are all about living and loving people in the world.
To use an old saying:-
" Those who are most Heavenly minded, are of Most earthly use. "
The truth has a depth of its own. There is no bias when the decision has already been made from the outset a system of values that are not arbitrary. It's like sorting out coins. The pennies go in the penny jar. The nickels go in the nickel jar....etc. No one is going to argue over the value of a coin...unless that coin is foreign to us. And that's the point. Most believers have little to no experience with deeper truth. The only way to consider the value of something foreign to us...spiritual values...is to examine the scriptures and let the bible lay things out. All I ask, as someone who is trying to bring light into darkness...is that the scriptures be taken seriously.
If we want to value a rupee, let's say, then we need to look at its comparative value to the dollar. Comparing like with like.
But if we arrive at our beliefs through a dogmatic bent...an indoctrination...logic and reason go out the window.
The bible is NOT against reason. That's why the bible is so big. What we see are unreasonable people railing against anything outside their own narrow bandwidth of comparative values. So for these...foreign currencies have NO value at all. however, if these people visited a foreign place, then they would soon see the value of those currencies.
I am speaking as someone who has indeed visited a foreign place...the kingdom realm of the Spirit. As such, I have a value system that allows me to evaluate spiritual things in a much better light than someone who is merely being dogmatic with only a temporal religious understanding. Of course, I am mocked for NOT being limited to worldly values...as my critics tend to be.
Spoken as someone who is fully non-conversant in spiritual things.
God is Spirit. Those who walk as Jesus walked (in the power of the Spirit) are NOT limited to earthly powers. There are spiritual faculties with which to interact with God in an intimate way. The very rarity of these gifts and subsequent walk shows how the modern state of the church is almost exclusively carnal in nature. Your response shows that this is true in your case...as in many cases here. Why limit God to your own experience? Why not seek to progress in Christ?
Because all too often those claiming to be ' spiritual' when faced with practical problems with a spiritual root, only look for spiritual answers, ignoring the practical problems.
To paraphrase James," you hare spiritual, show me your spirituality, while I by my works will show my spirituality".
To paraphrase James," you hare spiritual, show me your spirituality, while I by my works will show my spirituality".
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
sadly. some people live in the world where they think Gods speaks directly to them, and God has shown them the truth.
then they will attack anyone who disagrees with them as how did he put it, "non conversant in spiritual things"
James was concerned with maintaining righteousness. Loving one's neighbour as oneself. Paul was concerned with holiness. Maintaining the teachings of Jesus and the kingdom realm.
Both of these standards must be maintained. Hence, the purpose of the video.
I stated that a conservative believer will transgress righteousness by judging others too harshly....and a liberal believer will go easy on others but transgress holiness.
James is warning the conservatives. And Paul is warning the liberals.
Even unbelievers in the world expect spiritual people to be spiritual. Not so the unbelievers in the churches. The carnal man has been mollycoddled by false teachers for so long now, that sound doctrine is no longer tolerated by almost anyone. People like yourself just want affirmation....for what?...for nothing. A hospital model of the church sees you taking your meds on time and doing nothing to further the truth...even sheltering people FROM the truth..because it hurts. There, there, take your meds and get some more sleep. That's the idea. Don't disturb the spiritually dead ones.
The modern "snow-flake" mentality and cancel culture is alive where uncrucified flesh is catered to....where truth is seen as being "violent". I am attacked. I attack no one. So your senses are fully out of whack with reality. No wonder you can't hear any truth at all. It amazes me in a way...but the bible testifies of this state of affairs.
I think we are just about ready for the final judgment.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You can't comprehend that you are one of those false teachers.
news flash. I do not need affirmation.. His spirit has confirmed with my spirit that I am his son.. he did that 40 years ago. and has continued since.
LOL. I indeed have a different Spirit than the modern religious institutions. I certainly hope so! I have "another Spirit." It pleases God that the few are rejected by the many. So continue to judge from yourself. It must be so. I'm happy to be marginalized. :) That proves I'm spot on.
I have been following Christ...in reality.... for 43 years. It's not so much about the amount of time one maintains something....but where that is taking you.
remain as you are. No one is forcing you to give up your religious schemes.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am not sure who you follow
but its not Christ
if you followed Christ. You would preach is gospel.
Instead, you Mock him at every turn,
Your right, you do have a different spirit. a spirit of self desception is one.. I think you have many spirits though
You certainly don't know who I follow. As you see so you are.
Episkopos,
You know, while it boils down to a weight scale of what one desire, more world, more spirit. My contention is to seek for the spiritual things that have everlasting value, and store treasures of heaven, while banking on the Lord Yeshua. There is nothing that compared to the conversion of a person who understands that God loves them, and that they are able to have newness of life through Him by that spirit.
However, that faith, is just the first step. I agree with you the Bible and the scriptures should be looked at, with reason and logic, and questioned even however sought for an answer if possible to find one, be it by comparing scripture with scripture or asking God, what does Jesus mean here. While taking in the literal, figurative, and spiritual - even Spiritual principles, and placing them all in a good order just like the coins you mentioned.
In order to have at stable foundation when one is standing in faith in the cornerstone that holds the pillar together and can not be crushed like mans ideas, or mans thinking or a store barn with items in it, and desiring those spiritual principles, and to walk by faith, and walk by the spirit. It will always be first and primary.
The second is the Bible. Therefore God first, loves ones neighbor as their self, and encourages to go and look and seek and to become mature. Everyone has a place be it watering, or feeding the hungry (spiritually poor), but it's God who gives the increase to a broken heart, and contrite spirit, that is willingly to receive the truth, that leads to liberty in Yeshua.
All the best and in love, thank you again for taking time,
Matthew
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I am finding it hard to read all the posts here. But the reason is not because much of it is not true, but rather because of the great number who take would-be God-give gifts upon themselves to make claims without such authority, and most of what is posted seems to be against the Spirit. And certainly the many have it coming. But it hurts to think that because of this many have taken the position of resisting the Spirit as if many members of the church are guilty of crying wolf...because so many are.
I suppose the caution here, is that we not actually extinguish the flame, for God is spirit and we should rather aspire to be like Him.
I suppose the caution here, is that we not actually extinguish the flame, for God is spirit and we should rather aspire to be like Him.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
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