Wrong, wrong, wrong.
How is it that a remarried man is NOT the husband of one wife? Unless he has several wives.
We like to project modern western culture on the Bible. It doesn't work.
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Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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How is it that a remarried man is NOT the husband of one wife? Unless he has several wives.
We like to project modern western culture on the Bible. It doesn't work.
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3 Resurrections
Active Member
This statement gave me pause for thought. We know that the gospel is making inroads within Muslim countries, where multiple wives is not only practiced but is the usual case. Suppose the husband becomes converted to Christianity. Now he must make a decision concerning his multiple wives. Does he cast them out (with their children) to remain only with the first wife that he married? Or would he dump the excess wives and keep all their children for the first wife to care for ? (which would seem utterly cruel and / or burdensome to all of those wives). Would that not create severe hardship on those cast-out wives and their children so that they are completely destitute?
What if the converted husband doesn't have the financial means to set up his other wives with independent housing and sustenance separated from him? What if these wives cannot possibly return to their parent's home? And if he doesn't take care of those other wives and children financially, that would put him in the category of being "worse than an infidel" according to Paul. This converted husband is caught between a rock and a hard place. Let alone eliminating him from ever being in a position of leadership. In a Muslim community, if there are limited options for Christian leadership, this would create yet another problem for churches to deal with, if most or all of the husbands have had multiple wives. Are they to remain without a leader forever?
And that doesn't even address what a converted Muslim wife is facing if she should happen to be wife number 2 or number 3, etc...
He should stay with his first wife. He has supported multiple wives all that time, with their children. He should create different dwellings for them all (with their children) on his property and support them, yet not sleep with them. And he has an obligation to share the Gospel with them.
Hopefully, his treatment of them will drastically change, and they will be given rights such as education and certain freedoms.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
@ TLHKAJ, have you any thoughts or scriptural solutions for this dilemma that I mentioned above?
Ideally, that would be the case, but setting up multiple separate homes all in one setting is not an automatic possibility, either financially or space-wise in all cases, I am sure. But certainly sharing the gospel with them all would be a responsibility.
He can provide for them exactly the way he previously did, only NOT SLEEP WITH THEM. Simple. lol
Yes. Exactly as stated. He is expected to provide for his household ...which would be for his wife (the first wife) and ALL of his children. But morally, he should provide for them all, and if possible set the other wives in a position where they can earn a living for themselves...meanwhile, he should provide for them. Even if he cannot create separate dwellings, he should do that... he doesn't have to sleep with them to continue providing for them.
Ultimately, I would expect he would pray and God would lead him and give him resources to do what is required.
If he wants to lead a church, he should set the other wives free of their marriage obligation and stay with only the first wife. That doesn't require him to send them out destitute.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul is teaching the requirements that the Local Assembly is to look for, when deciding on a Pastor
See, sometimes a community of real Christians........a "Local" Assembly, like Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, Thessalonica, ....
(Paul's Epistles), often were written to these Local Churches that Paul the (Apostle-Missionary) had "planted".
To Plant a church, means to start one .
So, there are rules that are Paul's Doctrine, that explain this process, and of course the main situation is "how do we choose a Pastor"..(The Head of the Local Assembly).
And the reason that Paul said...."He must be a man who is married, yet only married to one wife, ONCE... (never divorced) is because this settles a certain status regarding the man's faithfulness...
And we understand that the Devil is always looking for an inroad to try to "bring down" what is "upright", so, in the case of a Man who is wanting to be a Pastor.....if this one is married "a few times" then that speaks to some issues he has regarding His own personal choices and personal life, that indicate that there is a lack of something that the Devil can exploit., including all the gossiping ladies who will gossip about him "being married a lot of times".. which will cause unrest and "issues" in the Church if that one is chosen.
Paul understands this, and denied the devil the opportunity.
So, Paul is not only Graced by Jesus to write all Church Doctrine, but Paul is also a incredible intellect, and most of all, regarding His discernment, he has a incredibly insightful spirituality that allows Him to see people as they really are, vs how they would want to be perceived.
Slightly off topic, but is a real eye-opener concerning the role of women in the early church and today.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Pastors have to be "the husband"...so, that excludes even she-males that have had all the procedures.
Other than that, a woman, can do everything else.. regarding The Contemporary Ministry.
Can she give messages from the Pulpit?
of course.
Evangelist, Teacher, ... ?
of course.
TV ministry?
of course.
Missionary?
of course
Deaconess ?
Yep.
Whatever the "office" she's good to go, but because She can't be "the Husband of one wife", then She can't be a Pastor.
This is not "God refusing to be politically correct".. This is God's established order, regarding the head of the chruch and the head of the household.
Reader, God is "No respecter of persons" so, that means he's not interested in abiding by the "civil rights" as defined by some country or some legislature or some Gay Pride group.
IV. In the case of trigamy and polygamy they laid down the same rule, in proportion, as in the case of digamy; namely one year for digamy (some authorities say two years); for trigamy men are separated for three and often for four years; but this is no longer described as marriage at all, but as polygamy; nay rather as limited fornication. It is for this reason that the Lord said to the woman of Samaria, who had five husbands, he whom thou now hast is not your husband. He does not reckon those who had exceeded the limits of a second marriage as worthy of the title of husband or wife.
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 188 (St. Basil)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
CHURCH FATHERS: To His Wife (Tertullian)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
CHURCH FATHERS: Letter 217 (St. Basil)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
why did anti-polygamy laws exist?
And thus, from the time of Abraham, the custom of marrying with sisters has ceased; and from the times of the prophets the contracting of marriage with several wives has been done away with; for we read, Go not after your lusts, but refrain yourself from your appetites; Sirach 18:30 for wine and women will make men of understanding to fall away; Sirach 19:2 and in another place, Let your fountain be blessed; and rejoice with the wife of your youth, Proverbs 5:18 manifestly forbidding a plurality of wives. And Jeremiah clearly gives the name of fed horses Jeremiah 5:8 to those who lust after other women; and we read, The multiplying brood of the ungodly shall not thrive, nor take deep rooting from bastard slips, nor lay any fast foundation. Wisdom 4:3
CHURCH FATHERS: Banquet of the Ten Virgins, Discourse 1 (Methodius)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
LOL
"the Husband of one wife" requirement is for Elder, not Pastor. And it really was only appropriate for that time and culture.
Besides, look at all the women church leaders in the white paper. See below.
Biblical Examples of Women in Ministry
Old Testament history includes accounts of strong female leadership in many roles. The following are striking examples: Miriam was a prophet to Israel during the Exodus, alongside her brothers Moses and Aaron (Exodus 15:20). Deborah, both a prophet and a judge, directed Barak to lead the army of Israel into successful combat against Israel’s oppressors (Judges 4 to 5). Huldah, also a prophet, authenticated the scroll of the Law found in the temple and helped spark religious reform in the days of Josiah (2 Kings 22:14–20; 2 Chronicles 34:22–28).The New Testament also shows that women filled important ministry roles in the Early Church. Tabitha (Dorcas) initiated an effective benevolence ministry (Acts 9:36). Philip’s four unmarried daughters were recognized prophets (Acts 21:8,9). Paul singled out two women, Euodia and Syntyche, as “women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers” (Philippians 4:2,3). Priscilla was another of Paul’s exemplary “fellow workers in Christ Jesus” (Romans 16:3,4). In Romans 16, Paul greets numerous ministry colleagues, a large number of them women. In these greetings, the word Paul uses to speak of the work (kopiao), or labor, of Mary, Tryphena, Tryphosa, and Persis (Romans 16:6,12) is one he uses extensively for the labor of ministry (1 Corinthians 16:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:12; 1 Timothy 5:17).
Phoebe, a leader in the church at Cenchrea, was highly commended to the church at Rome by Paul (Romans 16:1,2). Unfortunately, translation biases have often obscured Phoebe’s position of leadership, calling her a “servant” (NIV, NASB, ESV). Yet Phoebe was diakonos of the church at Cenchrea. Paul regularly used this term for a minister or leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, diakonos is usually translated “deacon” or “minister.” Though some translators have chosen the word deaconess (e.g., RSV, because Phoebe was female), the Greek diakonos is a masculine noun. Therefore, it seems likely that diakonos was the designation for an official leadership position in the Early Church and the proper translation for Phoebe’s role is “deacon” (TNIV, NLT, NRSV) or “minister.”
Moreover, a number of translations reflect similar biases by referring to Phoebe as having been a “great help” (NIV) or “helper” (NASB) of many, including Paul himself (Romans 16:2). The Greek term here is prostatis, better translated by the NRSV as “benefactor” with its overtones of equality and leadership.
Junia was identified by Paul as an apostle (Romans 16:7). Beginning in the thirteenth century, a number of scholars and translators masculinized her name to Junias, apparently unwilling to admit that there was a female apostle. However, the name Junia is found more than 250 times in Rome alone, while the masculine form Junias is unknown in any Greco-Roman source. Paul clearly was a strong advocate of women in ministry.
These instances of women filling leadership roles in the Bible should be taken as a divinely approved pattern, not as exceptions to divine decrees. Even a limited number of women with scripturally commended leadership roles affirm that God does indeed call women to spiritual leadership.
Source
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Leviticus 21:7
Easy-to-Read Version
7 “A priest serves God in a special way, so he must not marry a woman who has had sexual relations with any other man. He must not marry a prostitute or a divorced woman.1 Peter 2:5
You also are like living stones, and God is using you to build a spiritual house. You are to serve God in this house as holy priests, offering him spiritual sacrifices that he will accept because of Jesus Christ.
To pious and discerning readers of the sacred Scriptures evidence of the chastity of the holy men who are said to have had several wives is found in this, that Solomon, who by his polygamy gratified his passions, instead of seeking for offspring, is expressly noted as chargeable with being a lover of women. This, as we are informed by the truth which accepts no man's person, led him down into the abyss of idolatry.
www.newadvent.org
CHURCH FATHERS: Contra Faustum, Book XXII (Augustine)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
CHURCH FATHERS: De Spiritu Sancto (Basil)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
CHURCH FATHERS: Recognitions, Book IX (Clement of Rome)
Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
just poking around the early church fathers on polygamy
Why does the Apostle Paul require that
church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if
polygamy wasn't common in the church?
Titus 1:5-6 ESV
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might
put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—
6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,[a]
and his children are believers[b] and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I understand it, polygamy laws are supposedly based on the Bible.
Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?
When did this change?
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church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if
polygamy wasn't common in the church?
Titus 1:5-6 ESV
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might
put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—
6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife,[a]
and his children are believers[b] and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As I understand it, polygamy laws are supposedly based on the Bible.
Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?
When did this change?
[
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The scriptures never put an end to polygamy or concubinage and it is a historical fact that Jewish-Christians practiced them for a while and the Jews practiced them for nearly a millennium after the biblical era.
The discussion on divorce in the Gospels reflect on some of this. Christ was talking to Jews who could have had several wives. The discussion was about the Mosaic Law.....the letter of Divorcement......a custom that Christianity did not continue. If they divorced a wife they could not marry another. It was common for Jews to divorce their older wives and marry younger wives....which was very cruel.
A divorced Jewish woman could not remarry and was shunned by the Jewish community and she did not take property or her children with her. A lot of times they would turn to prostitution.
His disciples say to Him, “If the case of the man with the wife is like this, it is not expedient to marry!” Matthew 19:10
The discussion on divorce in the Gospels reflect on some of this. Christ was talking to Jews who could have had several wives. The discussion was about the Mosaic Law.....the letter of Divorcement......a custom that Christianity did not continue. If they divorced a wife they could not marry another. It was common for Jews to divorce their older wives and marry younger wives....which was very cruel.
A divorced Jewish woman could not remarry and was shunned by the Jewish community and she did not take property or her children with her. A lot of times they would turn to prostitution.
His disciples say to Him, “If the case of the man with the wife is like this, it is not expedient to marry!” Matthew 19:10
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