DOES NO ONE WANT TO BE CORRECTED?

[Ronald Nolette]

I have already been too kind to you--but your first statement there above is not correct. You repeat the woe of the lawyers of Jesus' time, of taking "away the key of knowledge." Your stated position does not allow for hearing "what the Spirit says", or what "must be spiritually discerned." Why should I keep correcting you when you speak against what is written and of Christ?

As for the word of God passed down--it is ever valid, as it has always been. But only One translation is correct, which is of the Spirit.

And you will use that "what the spirit says", to retranslate the Scriptures and push your personal opinion.

Teh Holy spirit will never contradict the Scriptures. NEVER!

 

[GodsGrace]

And you will use that "what the spirit says", to retranslate the Scriptures and push your personal opinion.

Teh Holy spirit will never contradict the Scriptures. NEVER!

I don't know what personal opinions you're speaking of ... but I agree that the Holy Spirit will never contradict scripture.
HOWEVER, we must also apply this to OURSELVES.
Seems to me Protestants are not united in what we believe.
Wish I had a good Protestant church near me...unfortunately I don't.
Wish we all agreed on doctrine.
Unfortunately, we don't.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't know what personal opinions you're speaking of ... but I agree that the Holy Spirit will never contradict scripture.
HOWEVER, we must also apply this to OURSELVES.
Seems to me Protestants are not united in what we believe.
Wish I had a good Protestant church near me...unfortunately I don't.
Wish we all agreed on doctrine.
Unfortunately, we don't.

Well we afre living in teh last days and doctrine is the thing thatr suffers most.

But I belong to a conservative Southern Baptist church.

I don't agree 100% but they are bible believing, bible teaching, people loving, soul winning church. they are dispensational hold to a literal hermeneutic so they are awesome in my book.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Apparently not. Things are looking a whole lot like the time of Jesus' first coming, when the Priests, Leaders, and Pharisees thought they were beyond reproach. And when Jesus went about correcting them, the established leaders rejected Him.

Then came the times of the church and of "the spirit of anti-Christ already at work" during those early days when Jesus had "somewhat against" 5 out of the 7 churches mentioned in Revelation; Peter foretold of "false teachers" bringing "destructive doctrines" into the church; and Paul foretold the believing of a "lie" causing "strong delusion" and great apostacy. And yet few if any seem to have taken it to heart--that corrections would need to come, or the church would be found apostate.

And worse, most seem determined to defend those foretold realities of false doctrines on a grand scale, to the death.

It is absolutely crazy that there is such a disregard for the warnings--when they too are written and true!

Well most here follow your example. You loathe correction so why are you so concerned others follow your lead?

 

[GodsGrace]

Well we afre living in teh last days and doctrine is the thing thatr suffers most.

But I belong to a conservative Southern Baptist church.

I don't agree 100% but they are bible believing, bible teaching, people loving, soul winning church. they are dispensational hold to a literal hermeneutic so they are awesome in my book.

Sounds like a nice/good church.
But I hope you also agree with their doctrine since there are many types of Baptist churches.
But not a conversation for here....

 

[ScottA]

I accept that 98% of the NT is for all of us,,,,but some of it is not.
John 16 and 17 is Jesus speaking to His Apostles.
Note John 15:27 Jesus states that "YOU HAVE BEEN WITH ME FROM THE BEGINNING".

The Holy Spirit in us helps us to understand scripture since it is spiritually discerend (1 cor 2:15),,,
but I don't believe Jesus meant that we read something and come up with our own private interpretation.

In local and cursory view, yes. But...that is not "all truth." All truth would be the reason it was included in the greater word of God for all eternity. Which is to say, "the words are spirit" as Jesus made clear regarding the words that He spoke to the apostles. That greater "all truth" version would then also include the "finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophet." Which is by the Spirit, and what I have been telling you.

As for "from the beginning"--this is true, but true from both their beginning and the advent of Christ in the immediate sense, and also true in "the" beginning--in the greater sense. Which is true of all who "were" crucified with Christ (as it is written), for He is "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world"--the Beginning.

Regarding the Holy Spirit helping us understand the scriptures--that is also true, but still comes "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little" at the appointed time.

 

[ScottA]

Not sure what you mean by the MYSTERY OF GOD.
Is it the mystery that has been revealed to us that Paul speaks of?
This would be the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles being broken down, no?

Read Revelation chapter 10. The "mystery of God" refers to all that was ever unknown about God, which He has been revealing "here a little there a little" since the beginning.

 

[ScottA]

But the heretical doctrines in the early church were eradicated by the church.
I don't see that happening these days.
There really isn't A CHURCH anymore....if someone believes something differently
they just go and begin their own church. This is why there are so many denominations.

Who says "the heretical doctrines in the early church were eradicated by the church"--those who were taught by those teaching false doctrines?

On the contrary, it is written that "strong delusion" and "great apostacy" and "a falling away" would ensue--not a quick eradication. Which would not be finished until "He who restrains is taken out of the way."

 

[GodsGrace]

In local and cursory view, yes. But...that is not "all truth." All truth would be the reason it was included in the greater word of God for all eternity. Which is to say, "the words are spirit" as Jesus made clear regarding the words that He spoke to the apostles. That greater "all truth" version would then also include the "finish of the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophet." Which is by the Spirit, and what I have been telling you.

You're going to have to post scripture. Where did Jesus say the words are spirit?
Is that ALL He meant?
When He sent the Apostles out on the Great Commission, Matthew 28:19,,,what do you think they were supposed to teach all nations?

All the truth is contained in the bible Scott.
You also didn't reply to what you mean by THE MYSTERY.
The ONLY mystery paul speaks of is the dividing wall between the Jews and Gentiles has been torn down.
Gentiles can now be a part of "Israel"...or God's church...or the Bride (take your pick).

Colossians 1:25-29
25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,
27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.
29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.

As for "from the beginning"--this is true, but true from both their beginning and the advent of Christ in the immediate sense, and also true in "the" beginning--in the greater sense. Which is true of all who "were" crucified with Christ (as it is written), for He is "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world"--the Beginning.

OK,,,but you're going to be ONLY spiritual and not take any of the NT literally? It is historical, right?
Jesus was speaking to His Apostles that had been with Him from the beginning of His ministry...not from the beginning of the universe.
The Lamb was slain from before the foundation: means that Jesus died for ALL,,,,those that came before the cross and those that came after because with God there is no time.

We humans should be careful when speaking about the beginning...for instance we say that God was in existence FROM THE BEGINNING...except that with God there is NO beginning...it's just our way of trying to understand eternity.

Regarding the Holy Spirit helping us understand the scriptures--that is also true, but still comes "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little" at the appointed time.

No appropriate time Scott.
The time came and went, we just have to learn what God wanted us to know.
I don't really know your belief system but what I'm posting here is FOR OUR OWN GOOD.
And, we can't argue this too much - because I'm not sure it's a salvation topic,
and because we just can't learn from each other.
Not that I expect YOU to learn from ME,,,,but we sure can learn still
but everything has to go back to scripture.
I left a denomination due to this.

 

[GodsGrace]

Read Revelation chapter 10. The "mystery of God" refers to all that was ever unknown about God, which He has been revealing "here a little there a little" since the beginning.

I'm not good with Revelation Scott...not good with eschatology.
Too much poetic stuff going on...
too much symbolism upon which I see little agreement.

Please post literal verses from the NT or I won't be able to say much.
Which is fine...

 

[GodsGrace]

Who says "the heretical doctrines in the early church were eradicated by the church"--those who were taught by those teaching false doctrines?

On the contrary, it is written that "strong delusion" and "great apostacy" and "a falling away" would ensue--not a quick eradication. Which would not be finished until "He who restrains is taken out of the way."

History states that heretical doctrine was eradicated by the early church.
I'm talking about history....not Acts.

And the strong delusion comes because someone or other is offering the delusion.
Also, you're speaking what is riddles to me...

 

[TLHKAJ]

tell me what you think is freaky? ....and why it would be applied to those who think quietly?

LOL ....most of us do think quietly!

 

[ScottA]

I'd part here,,,,maybe,,,,but don't wish to derail.
I'll just say that Jesus is still giving a choice as Joshua spoke of, for instance...but let's move on. (or in the Mosaic Covenant).
When is SHORTLY THEREAFTER? When did the church begin to accept false doctrine?
The church fought heresies from the beginning and wiped them out or we wouldn't be here today.
However, these SAME heresies are in circulation today and no church is doing anything about it.
In fact, some churches are FEEDING the heresies.

The early church began telling the "lie" warned of by Peter and written of also by Paul, resulting in their choosing to follow Peter (flesh and blood) rather than what Jesus told them He would build His church by as being what came specifically from our Father in heaven...which they began to do by adopting a system and line of succession following Peter in flesh and blood to follow flesh and blood men, which continues to this day.

The church fought for flesh and blood--first, falsely claiming to walk in the spirit. They did not wipe them out--they glorified them, and all but wiped out the spiritual church of Christ. And, yes, we are where we are today because of their false teachings and leading. As for other heresies--there are many...many of whom believe in some of those same false teachings.

 

[GodsGrace]

The early church began telling the "lie" warned of by Peter and written of also by Paul, resulting in their choosing to follow Peter (flesh and blood) rather than what Jesus told them He would build His church by as being what came specifically from our Father in heaven...which they began to do by adopting a system and line of succession following Peter in flesh and blood to follow flesh and blood men, which continues to this day.

The Apostles followed the leader.
Peter was the leader as is apparent in scripture.
If a car is going to be built....a factory is necessary.
I'm having this exact discussion with another member on a different thread that wants the church
to be SPIRITUAL.....ONLY.
This is not possible.
MAYBE if man were perfect, but we're not.

And Jesus meant that Peter was to build the church.
He gave the keys to Peter....keys...authority.
I mean, we Protestants dislike the CC so much we can't even read clearly
or accept history clearly. This should stop.

The early church was following what the Apostles taught.
It went wrong, or started going wrong, after the church got involved with earthly government after
Nicea in 325. Maybe they were just so happy not to be persecuted anymore....

To this day?:
The CC is trying to regain some territory but looks like it won't happen.
The Protestants can't agree with each other on many topics, doctrine, etc.
I don't know what the future holds for us.

The church fought for flesh and blood--first, falsely claiming to walk in the spirit.

When was this? What time period are you referring to?
The church was trying to grow.
Churches were being set up everywhere in that area (Israel and north and south).
Teachers/preachers were going to their death. Ignatius wrote his letters while on his
way to Rome to be fed to the lions....and yet he still wrote fiercely. No one around these days
that are like those Christians were.

They did not wipe them out--they glorified them, and all but wiped out the spiritual church of Christ. And, yes, we are where we are today because of their false teachings and leading. As for other heresies--there are many...many of whom believe in some of those same false teachings.

The heretics were glorified?
Which ones?

 

[GodsGrace]

@ScottA

Must sign off.
Tomorrow...

 

[ScottA]

But churches ARE made up of men of flesh and blood.
It's those that want to retain the original church that should be speaking out against those that
are attempting to destroy Jesus' church.

No, false churches are made up of flesh and blood, but the Church built by Christ is not, but is made up of those born of the spirit of God. Many of whom in flesh and blood physically attend churches of flesh and blood men, even against the spirit of God in them, even unknowingly. For this is the great divide as light from the darkness cast upon the gentiles, which continues to great extent unto the end.

As for those who want to retain the original church, many do not know what that was--which I have told you just as Jesus stated it, is in spirit only, even as Paul as much as said, to "be silent in church." In other word, not teaching the teachings of men, but allowing only the Holy Spirit to speak--as He does, most of which is lost within the great chorus of eagles gathered around a carcass--of which it is written.

But do not be deceived, Jesus had "somewhat against" 5 out of 7 of the early churches, Peter and Paul gave warning, and John as much as said that anti-Christ spirit was "already at work."

For this reason--no, there are few who want to be corrected.

 

[ScottA]

Scot....
I'm sure you've been told this before:

THERE AIN'T NO NEW REVELATION.

Revelation ended with the book of Revelation.

There might be some new UNDERSTANDING....
but God is NOT giving us anything NEW.

Here are some guys that received new revelation:

MUHAMMAD
JOHN SMITH
CHARLES RUSSELL
HELEN WHITE

and others that began their own cult sects that are NOT Christian.
Christianity has already been around for 2 thousand years and its tenets will not be changing.

You are not listening--so don't be surprised if I stop responding to you.

New and continued revelation is written of by Daniel, promised by Jesus, spoken of by Paul, and specifically identified by John in the book of Revelation. So are false revelations foretold.

Do your homework before making such erroneous claims.

 

[ScottA]

And you will use that "what the spirit says", to retranslate the Scriptures and push your personal opinion.

Teh Holy spirit will never contradict the Scriptures. NEVER!

I have told you for the last time: I am not giving my "personal opinion." Believe it or not--according to your own will, that is what shall be.

Nor have I ever said or indicated that the Holy Spirit has ever "contradicted the scriptures." Apparently--you are not even paying attention.

 

[ScottA]

You're going to have to post scripture. Where did Jesus say the words are spirit?
Is that ALL He meant?
When He sent the Apostles out on the Great Commission, Matthew 28:19,,,what do you think they were supposed to teach all nations?

All the truth is contained in the bible Scott.
You also didn't reply to what you mean by THE MYSTERY.
The ONLY mystery paul speaks of is the dividing wall between the Jews and Gentiles has been torn down.
Gentiles can now be a part of "Israel"...or God's church...or the Bride (take your pick).

Colossians 1:25-29
25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints,
27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.
29For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me.


OK,,,but you're going to be ONLY spiritual and not take any of the NT literally? It is historical, right?
Jesus was speaking to His Apostles that had been with Him from the beginning of His ministry...not from the beginning of the universe.
The Lamb was slain from before the foundation: means that Jesus died for ALL,,,,those that came before the cross and those that came after because with God there is no time.

We humans should be careful when speaking about the beginning...for instance we say that God was in existence FROM THE BEGINNING...except that with God there is NO beginning...it's just our way of trying to understand eternity.

No appropriate time Scott.
The time came and went, we just have to learn what God wanted us to know.
I don't really know your belief system but what I'm posting here is FOR OUR OWN GOOD.
And, we can't argue this too much - because I'm not sure it's a salvation topic,
and because we just can't learn from each other.
Not that I expect YOU to learn from ME,,,,but we sure can learn still
but everything has to go back to scripture.
I left a denomination due to this.

You should really do your own homework--read the Bible.

Until you know if and where things are written you have no business making demands of things I need to do. I often quote the scripture, sometimes with chapter and verse, sometimes only italicised,, sometimes not, sometimes only paraphrased...but I shouldn't have to...as it is written: "My sheep hear My voice."

I am happy to discuss things with you--but not if you rattle on with many errors and making many claims that are not true. And it doesn't help that you then presume to give challenge, not always or fully knowing what you are talking about. You have gone on and on like Martha.

 

[ScottA]

I'm not good with Revelation Scott...not good with eschatology.
Too much poetic stuff going on...
too much symbolism upon which I see little agreement.

Please post literal verses from the NT or I won't be able to say much.
Which is fine...

"Please" is good, but "literally" every word from God is spirit, and given in parable. Which I do not say to patronize, but rather to recommend that you consider every word from God--not to be in your language, but to be in a new language.