Does God love those He burns in Hell "Forever and Ever"?

[PinSeeker]

Hell fire, furnace if fire, everlasting fire, the lake of fire ... Are totally literal. Jesus said so.

Absolutely. But what it really looks like we cannot really know. Speaking of Jesus... <smile>... He also spoke of this place as a place of darkness, even outer darkness (in Matthew 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30), which must be really, really, REALLY dark. Like extra-specially, super-dee-duper dark. <smile> Now, fire, as we know it, is a light source, right? I mean, flames emit light. So something has to "give," so to speak... or does it? Is the fire literal, or the darkness? Well, now, if you ask me that question, Jack, I say... yes. <smile> <shudder>

Grace and peace to you, Jack.

 

[Jack]

Absolutely. But what it really looks like we cannot really know. Speaking of Jesus... <smile>... He also spoke of this place as a place of darkness, even outer darkness (in Matthew 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30), which must be really, really, REALLY dark. Like extra-specially, super-dee-duper dark. <smile> Now, fire, as we know it, is a light source, right? I mean, flames emit light. So something has to "give," so to speak... or does it? Is the fire literal, or the darkness? Well, now, if you ask me that question, Jack, I say... yes. <smile> <shudder>

Grace and peace to you, Jack.

Hell is the absolute worse nightmare to come true! Billions of humans are following Satan to Hell and don't realize it.

 

[Scott Downey]

Well maybe so, but it is a tormented existence throughout eternity, and we agree on that, so I'm not sure why you're saying that to me, as if I think otherwise. Certainly it will be a terrible torment to them... and unending. I mean, it's frightening (to put it mildly) to even think about at all.


Yes, a fiery torment. Agree. But 'fiery'... I'm sure you know, Scott, that in chapter three of his epistle, James says "the tongue is a fire" (James 3:6), right? James is surely not saying that people's tongues are literal flames inside their mouths, right? I mean, that would be rather painful... <chuckles> I think we both know what he means by that. Now... I'm not really comparing the fire that our tongue is to the eternal fire of hell, because in the latter case, we're talking about a holy, Godly fire rather than any kind of fire that a human being can muster or inflict with his/her tongue... but it does at least start to give us some idea what this eternal fiery torment in hell really is... Again, God Himself is "a consuming fire" (Deuteronomy, Hebrews). You seem to think I'm selling this "eternal fiery torment" as far less than it really is (or will be), but no, not at all. And, with all due respect, I think you and Jack are, really, inadvertent as it may be.


I don't. Maybe you should re-read my earlier post. I think the reality of hell will be far worse than we can even imagine.

Grace and peace to you.

We get an example of the flaming fiery return of Christ in 2 Thess 1 v8.
And Peter says the same thing, the world will melt with fervent heat and everything will be burned up, on earth and in heaven. Then comes the judgement at the white throne, a place not in heaven or earth as they are gone.

Greeting​

1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,

To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s Final Judgment and Glory​

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you,

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

**********************************************

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The Great White Throne Judgment​

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [b]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Scott Downey]

All Things Made New​

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

8 But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[Scott Downey]

One proof we are not living in the New Heavens and New earth yet is the wicked have not been judged at the final judgement, as the wicked we still have around us, they are not burning in the Lake of fire.
Some say the old is gone and the new is here, but it cannot be so, as it does not agree with what Jesus says about the LAST DAY.
When Christ returns on the LAST DAY, He raises the dead and judges the world. The DAY of Christ is the end of the world, the great Day of the Lord

2 Tim 4
I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

Jude
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

6 And the angels who did not keep their [a]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [b]vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[PinSeeker]

Hell is the absolute worse nightmare to come true! Billions of humans are following Satan to Hell and don't realize it.

Agree.

Grace and peace to you, Jack.

 

[PinSeeker]

We get an example of the flaming fiery return of Christ in 2 Thess 1 v8.

Agree, but... <smile> We disagree on the nature of this fire. I would encourage you to do, using a good concordance, a wordsearch on 'fire' and 'consume' throughout the Bible.

And Peter says the same thing, the world will melt with fervent heat and everything will be burned up, on earth and in heaven.

Right, in the sense that everything will then be completely refined... made pure. Now, heaven... I mean, where God is is already that way, of course. But on that day... as the hymn cited previously says, "Earth and heaven will be one." God says it in Revelation 21:5... not "Behold I am making all new things," but rather, "Behold, I am making all things new."

Then comes the judgement at the white throne...

Yes, the final Judgment will occur at the end of the "millennium," the "thousand years," (Revelation 20:4-6) and after the return of Christ and the final defeat of Satan (Revelation 20:7-10), and just after "all who are in the tombs hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29). And it will look just as Jesus describes in Matthew 25:31-46.

... place not in heaven or earth, as they are gone.

Disagree. See above. You quoted God, Scott, in Revelation 21:5... "Behold, I make..." (or "am making"... there is no difference) "...all things new." He is not making ~ and will not make ~ new things... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[Scott Downey]

Agree, but... <smile> We disagree on the nature of this fire. I would encourage you to do, using a good concordance, a wordsearch on 'fire' and 'consume' throughout the Bible.


Right, in the sense that everything will then be completely refined... made pure. Now, heaven... I mean, where God is is already that way, of course. But on that day... as the hymn cited previously says, "Earth and heaven will be one." God says it in Revelation 21:5... not "Behold I am making all new things," but rather, "Behold, I am making all things new."


Yes, the final Judgment will occur at the end of the "millennium," the "thousand years," (Revelation 20:4-6) and after the return of Christ and the final defeat of Satan (Revelation 20:7-10), and just after "all who are in the tombs hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment" (John 5:28-29). And it will look just as Jesus describes in Matthew 25:31-46.


Disagree. See above. You quoted God, Scott, in Revelation 21:5... "Behold, I make..." (or "am making"... there is no difference) "...all things new." He is not making ~ and will not make ~ new things... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

There is no millennial reign over the wicked as there are no longer any wicked left alive. Unbelief is unrighteousness, all the unrighteous God destroys.

At Christ's return, who are experiencing everlasting destruction?
All wicked and all unbelievers are GONE


7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Malachi 4, they are completely gone

The Great Day of God​

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,

“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

 

[Scott Downey]

Recall Jacob and Esau, all should consider what God says will happen in the Last Days

Jacob was blessed of God, while Esau was cursed, and unable to obtain repentance, though he sought it with tears.
It is not of a man why a person obtains salvation, only the ELECT obtain it while the rest are blinded.

Paul uses those 2 people to talk about who obtains salvation,

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice​

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

************************************************************************

Obadiah 1 has an interesting prophecy regarding the future of those of Esau, those under wrath, versus Jacob, who God chose and blessed

About the Last Day written below

15 “For the day of the Lord upon all the nations is near;
As you have done, it shall be done to you;
Your [g]reprisal shall return upon your own head.
16 For as you drank on My holy mountain,
So shall all the nations drink continually;
Yes, they shall drink, and swallow,
And they shall be as though they had never been.

Israel’s Final Triumph​

17 “But on Mount Zion there shall be [h]deliverance,
And there shall be holiness;
The house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.
18 The house of Jacob shall be a fire,
And the house of Joseph a flame;
But the house of Esau shall be stubble;
They shall kindle them and devour them,
And no survivor shall remain of the house of Esau,”
For the Lord has spoken.

19 The [i]South shall possess the mountains of Esau,
And the Lowland shall possess Philistia.
They shall possess the fields of Ephraim
And the fields of Samaria.
Benjamin shall possess Gilead.

20 And the captives of this host of the children of Israel
Shall possess the land of the Canaanites
As far as Zarephath.
The captives of Jerusalem who are in Sepharad
Shall possess the cities of the [j]South.

21 Then saviors[k] shall come to Mount Zion
To judge the mountains of Esau,
And the kingdom shall be the Lord’s.

 

[Scott Downey]

More on Esau and God

Malachi 1
1 The [a]burden of the word of the Lord to Israel [b]by Malachi.

Israel Beloved of God​

2 “I have loved you,” says the Lord.
“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’
Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”
Says the Lord.
“Yet Jacob I have loved;
3 But Esau I have hated,
And laid waste his mountains and his heritage
For the jackals of the wilderness.”
4 Even though Edom has said,
“We have been impoverished,
But we will return and build the desolate places,”

Thus says the Lord of hosts:

“They may build, but I will throw down;
They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,
And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.

5 Your eyes shall see,
And you shall say,
‘The Lord is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’

 

[PinSeeker]

There is no millennial reign over the wicked as there are no longer any wicked left alive.

The millennial reign is now, Scott. I thought that was your understanding as well. Now, His millennial reign surely doesn't look like we want it to look right now, but that doesn't mean He's not reigning now... and His eternal reign certainly will. I ask you, Scott, right now, Who is your King? Who? <smile>

Unbelief is unrighteousness, all the unrighteous God destroys.

Right, and when Christ returns, that He will do for good. Although... "destroys"... we may understand this destruction a bit differently also...

At Christ's return, who are experiencing everlasting destruction?

Well, Satan first, and then the wicked, certainly. But no one yet, as Christ has not returned, yet, of course.

All wicked and all unbelievers are GONE

They will most certainly be, yes, after the final Judgment. Yes. Gone from here, certainly, but not wiped from existence... But yes, they will obediently depart, and not be with us in the New Heaven and New Earth. Yes.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[Scott Downey]

The millennial reign is now, Scott. I thought that was your understanding as well. Now, His millennial reign surely doesn't look like we want it to look right now, but that doesn't mean He's not reigning now... and His eternal reign certainly will. I ask you, Scott, right now, Who is your King? Who? <smile>


Right, and when Christ returns, that He will do for good. Although... "destroys"... we may understand this destruction a bit differently also...


Well, Satan first, and then the wicked, certainly. But no one yet, as Christ has not returned, yet, of course.


They will most certainly be, yes, after the final Judgment. Yes. Gone from here, certainly, but not wiped from existence... But yes, they will obediently depart, and not be with us in the New Heaven and New Earth. Yes.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

I agree there is no millennial reign on earth, it is in heaven right now.
The 1000 years is symbolic of a long indeterminate time before the return of Christ.

They wont obediently depart after the judgement as they must be cast into the Lake of fire. No one willing goes there.

What Jesus taught about the end, which is the Last Day
Proof that there will be none left alive in the flesh so to speak after His return in flaming fire.
His angels gather out of His kingdom all things that offend God and practice lawlessness, and the angels cast them into the 'furnace of fire. This occurs after they are judged. There are only those planted by the Lord as the good seed planted in His field the world versus those planted by the devil, all who do not believe in Christ are children of the devil.

The Parable of the Tares Explained​

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[Scott Downey]

So, we read, they must be gathered, judged and cast in the furnace of fire. They are essentially gone forever, eternally separated from the righteous and God. They are never coming back. They are burned up leaving them neither root nor branch, it is an everlasting destruction.

They are ashes under the feet of the righteous.

 

[Behold]

So you're saying God shows His love for people by burning them in Hell with the worst beings who ever lived, FOREVER?

Hell , as the beginning of the "2nd death", is what they find at the end of their Christ rejecting Life.

Hell was created for the Devil, and once Adam fell, he became the spiritual child of the Devil, and this "adamic" situation came to all of us.

Adams FALL, is the spiritual fall of us ALL.

Jesus describes all of us.......before we were born again.... (and that is not water baptism)... as... "YOU are of YOUR FATHER... THE DEVIL, and the LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER.... you shall do".

Certainly the reader can recall how much you use to love to sin.. and "live like the devil".

Right?

Didnt you love to fornicate?
Didnt you love to stay out late in bars?
Didnt you enjoy getting drunk or high?
Didnt you enjoy Porn?

See, its that LUST to do it... again... to have that sin.. .more and more...........is "the LUSTS of YOUR FATHER... you shall do"..


So, The reason that Jesus said we must be born again.. is because that is GOD becoming our eternal Spiritual FATHER, and if that does not happen before you DIE, then you die and the DEVIL remains = your spiritual father, so, you end up in the place designed for Him.

Its really that simple.

 

[Jack]

Hell , as the beginning of the "2nd death", is what they find at the end of their Christ rejecting Life.

Hell was created for the Devil, and once Adam fell, he became the spiritual child of the Devil, and this "adamic" situation came to all of us.

Jesus describes all of us.......before we were born again.... (and that is not water baptism)... as... "YOU are of YOUR FATHER... THE DEVIL, and the LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER.... you shall do".

Certainly the reader can recall how much you use to love to sin.. and "live like the devil".

Right?

Didnt you love to fornicate?
Didnt you love to stay out late in bars?
Didnt you enjoy getting drunk or high?
Didnt you enjoy Porn?

See, its that LUST to do it... again... to have that sin.. .more and more...........is "the LUSTS of YOUR FATHER... you shall do"..


So, The reason that Jesus said we must be born again.. is because that is GOD becoming our eternal Spiritual FATHER, and if that does not happen before you DIE, then you die and the DEVIL remains = your spiritual father, so, you end up in the place designed for Him.

Its really that simple.

So, does God love those He burns in Hell forever?

 

[Behold]

So, does God love those He burns in Hell forever?

God loves them so much that "God gave His only begotten son" for them, for all of us.

But God's love, if rejected unto death, is eternal rejection.

One of the things that foolish unlearned people like to roar about, is...

""How can a Loving God send people to hell.......""

So, the answer is....

Would a person who wanted no part of God, and happily rejected Jesus all their life.........be happy in Heaven, with them?

So, that is something to consider....

Also, God loves the sinner, and until their last breath, He is calling them to Jesus On THE CROSS......so that they can be a part of His family.

A.) GOD is not responsible for their decision to go to hell, as that is the choice YOU MAKE, when you REJECT going to Heaven, by refusing to have Jesus as your Savior.

Choose Heaven or Choose Hell........you get to decide, and Reader, Hebrews 9:27 is coming for you, before you know it.. .and if you have not trusted in Christ, ... then you have to understand, that once you are found in Hell, you dont get a 2nd Chance to trust in Jesus.

 

[Jack]

God loves them so much that "God gave His only begotten son" for them, for all of us.

But God's love, if rejected unto death, is eternal rejection.

One of the things that foolish unlearned people like to roar about, is...

""How can a Loving God send people to hell.......""

So, the answer is....

Would a person who wanted no part of God, and happily rejected Jesus all their life.........be happy in Heaven, with them?

So, that is something to consider....

Also, God loves the sinner, and until their last breath, He is calling them to Jesus On THE CROSS......so that they can be a part of His family.

A.) GOD is not responsible for their decision to go to hell, as that is the choice YOU MAKE, when you REJECT going to Heaven, by refusing to have Jesus as your Savior.

Choose Heaven or Choose Hell........you get to decide, and Reader, Hebrews 9:27 is coming for you, before you know it.. .and if you have not trusted in Christ, ... then you have to understand, that once you are found in Hell, you dont get a 2nd Chance to trust in Jesus.

Romans 9:13
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

 

[Behold]

Romans 9:13
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."

We have to consider that the words and verses in the bible are ALL spiritual, and if we try to analyze them as if they are just a dictionary, then we can end up, in a theological mind trap.

Welcome to Catholicism
Welcome to Mormonism
Welcome to JW
Welcome to all the "ism's" that are false fake "christian cults" that are all based on "wrongly dividing the word of God".... right into the darkness, do they continue.

And that is why there are 45,000 denominations in the world that all say they are "christian".

This religious madhouse situation is based on ... "wrongly dividing the word"........ = misinterpreting the bible.


Notice this verse.......

Jesus says....""""If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.""""

Now, does Jesus mean you are to hate your Parents when God says we are to love our enemies?

So, do you see how it can be, to read the bible, vs discerning the scriptures according to revelation knowledge.?

This is why God gives a TEACHING anointing to a Teacher to TEACH the word of God.. ."for the perfecting of the Saints'".

 

[Jack]

We have to consider that the words of the bible are spiritual, and if we try to analyze them as if they are just a dictionary, then we can end up, in a theological mind trap.
And that is why there are 45,000 denominations in the world that all say they are "christian".

This madhouse situation is based on ... "wrongly dividing the word"........ misinterpreting the bible.


Notice this verse.......

Jesus says....""""If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.""""

Now, does Jesus mean you are to hate your Parents when God says we are to love our enemies?

So, do you see how it can be, to read the bible, vs discerning the scriptures according to revelation knowledge.?

This is why God gives an anointing to TEACH the word of God.. ."for the perfecting of the Saints'".

Psalm 11:5
5 The LORD tests righteous people, but he hates wicked people and the ones who love violence.

 

[Behold]

Psalm 11:5
5 The LORD tests righteous people, but he hates wicked people and the ones who love violence.

I can also quote verses with the word "hate" in them, but thats not going to help you, as you've already proven you are stuck in confusion, @Jack .

See you there.