Do you think Paul had an out of body experience?

[LittleTuneAlright]

Not sure where to post this, but some people believe in OBE's or out of body experiences. I have had 2. (although what I can say for sure is that they were just elaborate dreams, as I found myself for some reason looking down on myself from the ceiling. I was ill both times I had them and everything looked like it would in real time. the second time I found "gentle invisible angel beings" pulling me out of my body. it was surreal. memorable to this day. the first time I felt an indescribable feeling of bliss, (whether this is the paradise like place Paul speaks of I do not know. I just would like your opinions. thanks.


2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (NASB):

2 I know a man in Christ, who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak

 

[Marty fox]

Not sure where to post this, but some people believe in OBE's or out of body experiences. I have had 2. (although what I can say for sure is that they were just elaborate dreams, as I found myself for some reason looking down on myself from the ceiling. I was ill both times I had them and everything looked like it would in real time. the second time I found "gentle invisible angel beings" pulling me out of my body. it was surreal. memorable to this day. the first time I felt an indescribable feeling of bliss, (whether this is the paradise like place Paul speaks of I do not know. I just would like your opinions. thanks.


2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (NASB):

Paul experience exactually what John experience.

Revelation 4

4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this.”

2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

I haven't had an out of body experience, but I have had sleep paralysis twice over the last year and it was defiantly spiritual demonic

 

[ewq1938]

Not sure where to post this, but some people believe in OBE's or out of body experiences. I have had 2. (although what I can say for sure is that they were just elaborate dreams, as I found myself for some reason looking down on myself from the ceiling. I was ill both times I had them and everything looked like it would in real time. the second time I found "gentle invisible angel beings" pulling me out of my body. it was surreal. memorable to this day. the first time I felt an indescribable feeling of bliss, (whether this is the paradise like place Paul speaks of I do not know. I just would like your opinions. thanks.


2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (NASB):

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

This clearly proves Paul is not talking about himself, but someone else. He gives glory to that other person but says he would not give himself any such glory except regarding his infirmities.

 

[Davy]

Not sure where to post this, but some people believe in OBE's or out of body experiences. I have had 2. (although what I can say for sure is that they were just elaborate dreams, as I found myself for some reason looking down on myself from the ceiling. I was ill both times I had them and everything looked like it would in real time. the second time I found "gentle invisible angel beings" pulling me out of my body. it was surreal. memorable to this day. the first time I felt an indescribable feeling of bliss, (whether this is the paradise like place Paul speaks of I do not know. I just would like your opinions. thanks.


2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (NASB):

See this YouTube link with the Western actor Clint Walker telling of his near death experience.

He was pronounced dead I think by 3 doctors and his dead body was set out in the hall waiting on the "meat wagon" to be taken to the morgue. Another doctor taking a shortcut to his car passed his dead body in the basement hall, and went back because he felt something wasn't right, and when he checked Clint, Clint then said to him right then and there, "Do you really have to do that?" Then that doctor rushed Clint to the operating room.

Per Acts 14:19, Apostle Paul was once "stoned" and left for dead. That might be when Paul had a near-death experience and was being modest in telling about it in the 2 Cor.12 Scripture, not pointing to himself.

Hebrews 4:12 reveals God created us with 3 parts - our soul, our spirit, and our flesh of bones and marrow. Jesus in John 3:6 said that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. Eccl.12:5-7 reveals that when our flesh body dies, it goes back to the earthly material elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. And per Matt.10:28, Jesus said to not fear those who can kill our body (flesh), but NOT our soul, so that means our spirit is linked with our soul, and is of the heavenly dimension, and appears there in the heavenly when our flesh dies.

Eccl.12 even mentions the idea of a "silver cord" being severed at flesh death, pointing to that being what holds our spirit with soul to our flesh body. And when that "silver cord" is severed at flesh death, our spirit with soul is released back to the heavenly dimension. This of course goes directly against man's 'dead in the ground' theory from old Jewish traditions, thinking that we are literally asleep in the casket when our flesh dies.

Paul in 2 Cor.5 also revealed that other body of spirit that we all have which is of the heavenly, and not of flesh.

 

[ScottA]

Not sure where to post this, but some people believe in OBE's or out of body experiences. I have had 2. (although what I can say for sure is that they were just elaborate dreams, as I found myself for some reason looking down on myself from the ceiling. I was ill both times I had them and everything looked like it would in real time. the second time I found "gentle invisible angel beings" pulling me out of my body. it was surreal. memorable to this day. the first time I felt an indescribable feeling of bliss, (whether this is the paradise like place Paul speaks of I do not know. I just would like your opinions. thanks.


2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (NASB):

Welcome!

We call such experiences "out of body experiences" because we consider reality as "in body." That is wrong, it's just that it is what we are limited to at the time. Reality, rather, is that all experience is spiritual, and yet for a time we are without the Spirit-- This is what is meant by Israel eating unleavened bread--as a revelation of life without the Spirit--before being born again of the spirit of God.

So, yes, Paul had somewhat of an out of body experience...as it was his first time experiencing things in full spirit spectrum.

Dreams on the other hand are just a taste, and often jumbled, half steps, like illegible chatter or words misspelled and confusing. While clear messages from God are clear, even if not understood. But it is God speaking and not to be taken lightly.

You are a witness to and of the Spirit. Blessings to you!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
2Co 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
2Co 12:5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

This clearly proves Paul is not talking about himself, but someone else. He gives glory to that other person but says he would not give himself any such glory except regarding his infirmities.

No, it does not prove that at all. You need to keep reading the next 2 verses after that where he indicated that he WAS talking about himself.

2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Read this carefully. Notice that Paul was given a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble so that he would not "be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations". So, he was saying that he was given a thorn in the flesh so that he would not boast about seeing the third heaven/paradise. Verse 6 indicates that he wanted to boast about it, but at the same time he knew that would be foolish. So, God helped ensure that he wouldn't by giving him a thorn in the flesh.

What verse 5 means then is that he would boast/glory about someone else if they had that experience, but he would not boast/glory of himself having that experience. And he was given a thorn in the flesh to ensure that he would not boast about what he saw.

 

[Davy]

No, it does not prove that at all. You need to keep reading the next 2 verses after that where he indicated that he WAS talking about himself.

2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Read this carefully. Notice that Paul was given a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble so that he would not "be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations". So, he was saying that he was given a thorn in the flesh so that he would not boast about seeing the third heaven/paradise. Verse 6 indicates that he wanted to boast about it, but at the same time he knew that would be foolish. So, God helped ensure that he wouldn't by giving him a thorn in the flesh.

What verse 5 means then is that he would boast/glory about someone else if they had that experience, but he would not boast/glory of himself having that experience. And he was given a thorn in the flesh to ensure that he would not boast about what he saw.

I actually like that above response, and agree with it.