Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Bible Highlighter]

It is not a requirement! Who told you that it is?

Jesus.

For Jesus says, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19-20).

Side Note:

I believe the disciples took this NAME (to be baptized in) to be Jesus Christ. They were to baptize in the NAME the represents all three persons of the Trinity or Godhead (Which is Jesus). This is why we see the disciples baptize others in Jesus’ name and not in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This is because that when they baptized in Jesus’ name, they were in essence baptizing them in the NAME (Jesus) that represents all three persons (i.e. the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). For Colossians talks about how the fulness of the Godhead (Trinity) dwelled within the man Christ Jesus.

 

[Jim B]

This is not what I asked you. I am asking you to show forth what you believe with Scripture.



I am not saying water baptism is necessary for Initial Salvation. I am not even saying it is for salvation exactly, but I do believe it is a requirement because that is what Scripture teaches. Nowhere do we see that water baptism had ended. Even you say it is optional but yet you give no actual Bible reference that this is so.



You mean the Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch.

Anyways, to address your point: Well, there are many requirements God desires of us after we are first initially saved and we are not going to know about all those requirements right away unless we study and or learn. For example: The first two greatest commandments are…

#1. Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength (Mark 12:29-30).​

#2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Mark 12:31).​

Are these commands no longer a requirement because Philip did not bring them up? No.

Side Note: I am not saying one has to be water baptized the moment they are saved. I believe a person can be water baptized many years later. But it is something God requires of us because there is no indication in His Word that it had ended or it was merely optional.



Where did I say that water baptism is for salvation?
I did not say such a thing.
What I am saying is that it is a part of living out the faith.

Why don't you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?
Why don't you believe that He was crucified and resurrected on the third day?
Why don't you believe that Jesus created the world?
Why don't you believe that the Bible is the word of God?
Why don't you believe that faith is a requirement for salvation?
Why don't you believe that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth?
Why don't you believe that modern translations are better than the flawed King James translation?
Why don't you accept all those whom Christ has accepted?

 

[BreadOfLife]

As I said, your church teaches you what to believe. If you should learn the truth about what the scriptures actually teach, you would cease to be Catholic.

And NOT everything YOU say is true – your incredible narcissism, notwithstanding . . .

Negative, there are NO successors.

Once again – according to YOU.

The BIBLE, however, disagrees with you . . .
(Acts 1:20, 2 Tim. 2:2, 2 Tim. 1:12-14)

Judas didn't hold an office. Judas and the other 11 were hand picked apostles of Jesus Christ. These men served as eye witnesses of what Jesus said and what he did. In addition, these men spoke authoritatively for Jesus as his ambassadors. Matthias was a candidate chosen to take his place because he was with the group since the beginning and traveled with them wherever they went.
No man today can qualify to be an apostle on that basis.
Also, Matthias was chosen by lot; and as far as I know, that's the last we hear from him. Paul, on the other hand, was chosen by Jesus Christ and he ends up writing over half of the New Testament.

Judas absolutely held an office – according to the sacred Word of God:
Acts 1:20
Let another take his OFFICE (Episkopay).

Matthias WAS chosen by lot – but it was the Holy Spirit who chose him to succeed Judas.

When a Congressman or a Senator dies – they are NOT simply “replaced”
Another is chosen to succeed their OFFICE, “Offices” are successive in that respect.

There are lots of errors. Chief among them is your pagan view concerning the Eucharist. What Jesus meant figuratively, you take literally and through a magic spell, allegedly turn the bread into the body of Christ.

John 6:53-54
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you EAT THE FLESH of the Son of Man AND DRINK HIS BLOOD, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

The normal Greek word for the way a human eats is “Phagon”. HOWEVER, the word “Trogon” is used here which is the way an animal rips apart his food. We students of Scripture refer to this as hyperbole – exaggeration in order t o make a point.

“This IS my Body” - “This IS my blood” (Luke 22:19–20; Matt. 26:26–28; Mark 14:22–24; 1 Cor. 11:23–25)
NOWHERE do we read that this is just “symbolic” or metaphorical.

MOST of Jesus’s followers abandoned Him and returned to their former way of life, according to John 6:66 because this message was too radical for them.
Unfortunately, YOU have joined them . . .

Typical sophistry. All you did was repeat a fallacious argument, which you heard somewhere. It isn't original to you and you don't seem to understand it. And you are swimming in a fish bowl.

Ummmmm, I’m NOT the one claiming that God puts different doctrines in everybody’s heads and calls it “Unity” . . .

 

[Jim B]

Jesus.

For Jesus says, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19-20).

Side Note:

I believe the disciples took this NAME (to be baptized in) to be Jesus Christ. They were to baptize in the NAME the represents all three persons of the Trinity or Godhead (Which is Jesus). This is why we see the disciples baptize others in Jesus’ name and not in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This is because that when they baptized in Jesus’ name, they were in essence baptizing them in the NAME (Jesus) that represents all three persons (i.e. the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). For Colossians talks about how the fulness of the Godhead (Trinity) dwelled within the man Christ Jesus.

Clearly you have no idea what the word "baptism" means. It means submersion; nothing more.

Matthew 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." It doesn't say baptizing them in water!!! It says "baptizing them in the name". How do you baptize someone in a name?

John 3:5 makes it even clearer: "While Jesus told Nicodemus, “Amen, Amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit”.

Baptism is the outward act that symbolizes the inward phenomenon of coming to and accepting Jesus Christ as real, as God incarnate, as the sacrificial means by which those who believe in him can be forever reconciled to God. The purpose of baptism is to give visual testimony of our commitment to Christ.

The Greek word for “baptism” is “βαπτιζω". The English letters look like this: "baptidzo." The Greek word "baptidzo" literally means to “dip” or to “immerse”.

The symbolism of baptism is that, just as Christ died and was buried, so the baptized person is submerged (whether physically or symbolically) under water. And just as Christ rose again from beneath the earth, so the baptized person rises again from beneath the water. Under the water is the believer’s old, dead, heavy, suffocating life. Out of the water, cleansed by the blood of Christ, is the believer’s new, fresh, purposeful life.

 

[Jim B]

There are different levels of Christian liberalism.
Some who are liberal will not even admit that they are liberal.

Here is an article by Gotquestions, which gives you a breakdown of what a liberal looks like:

What is liberal Christian theology? | GotQuestions.org

What is liberal Christian theology? Why is liberal Christian theology so dangerous?

www.gotquestions.org

While some Christian Liberals do not fit the exact mold as given by Gotquestions, they are still liberal if they hold to certain points on that list. Many liberals tend to turn the Word of God into fables or fictional stories. I believe anyone who defends Christian liberalism is seriously in trouble with the LORD and they need to repent and become born again. I believe they cannot be reasoned with but only prayed for. Liberals want some semblance of the truth up to a point (i.e. the existence of God) but they do not want the precise or exact truth of what God offers (Thereby they are rejecting the one true God).

ABSOLUTE GARBAGE!!!

 

[Jim B]

Anyone who labels themselves as a Christian conservative and defends that position either does not understand Biblical truth, or they are in acceptance of false doctrines.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Dear Jim:

Asking you a question to figure out what you believe is not the same thing as asking questions that are loaded and or so as to accuse somebody of something that is not true.
It would be like Rick asking Bob: “Hey, Bob. So how long have you been beating your wife?”
Yet, Rick does not have any evidence or clues that this is so.
So his question is baseless and unfounded. This is kind of like what you are doing here.
I merely asked my questions towards you because you defended Liberalism, and I wanted to truly know what you believe.

Why don't you believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

I believe Jesus is the Son of God as Scripture says.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

Why don't you believe that He was crucified and resurrected on the third day?

I believe Jesus is crucified and resurrected on the third day according to the Scriptures.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

Why don't you believe that Jesus created the world?

I believe Jesus created the world and the universe and He is eternal (existing from eternity’s past).
Jesus holds all things together by the word of His power. All these things can be confirmed by Scripture.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

Why don't you believe that the Bible is the word of God?

I believe both the Bible, and Jesus are called the Word of God (according to Scripture).
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

Why don't you believe that faith is a requirement for salvation?

I believe we have access to God’s grace through faith (Which is what Romans 5:1-2 teaches).
So no. I do believe we need to have faith in order to access God’s grace that saves.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

Why don't you believe that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth?

I believe Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth according to Scripture.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

Why don't you believe that modern translations are better than the flawed King James translation?

Well, I do believe God uses Modern Translations for His glory in that they can help the reader who believes in the King James Bible as their final Word of authority so as to help update the archaic English in the KJB many times. But just because something that is hard to understand at times does not mean it is not perfect. Jesus spoke in parables.

I don’t believe Modern Translations can be trusted as our final Word of authority because they teach false doctrines. I have actually been doing a study on expanding my list of false doctrines that they teach. But this is all a part of my ultimate study that I hope to reveal in the future called, 101 Reasons for the King James Bible.

This was the only non-loaded question you asked me here.
Please keep in mind that I asked my questions so as to figure out what you actually believe and I was not attempting to slander your current beliefs as a Christian by asking loaded questions as you have done.

Why don't you accept all those whom Christ has accepted?

We are not dead yet and therefore I cannot judge things before the time. I don’t know which Christians (or even unbelievers) will repent and or change their beliefs to fit with what God’s Word says.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

ABSOLUTE GARBAGE!!!

Why even post such expressions? Who are you hoping to convince by your expressions of such emotional outbursts?
Where does logic and reason come into play here?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Anyone who labels themselves as a Christian conservative and defends that position either does not understand Biblical truth, or they are in acceptance of false doctrines.

What is your definition of a conversative?
What is your definition of a liberal (By comparison)?
Are these definitions based on viable sources within the Christian community?

 

[Jim B]

Jesus.

For Jesus says, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” (Matthew 28:19-20).

Side Note:

I believe the disciples took this NAME (to be baptized in) to be Jesus Christ. They were to baptize in the NAME the represents all three persons of the Trinity or Godhead (Which is Jesus). This is why we see the disciples baptize others in Jesus’ name and not in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. This is because that when they baptized in Jesus’ name, they were in essence baptizing them in the NAME (Jesus) that represents all three persons (i.e. the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). For Colossians talks about how the fulness of the Godhead (Trinity) dwelled within the man Christ Jesus.

If I understand your post, we agree -- for once. Baptism is immersion; it is not limited to water. Baptizing someone in the name means teaching them the true meaning of the name of the Savior.

 

[Jim B]

Why even post such expressions? Who are you hoping to convince by your expressions of such emotional outbursts?
Where does logic and reason come into play here?

Who are you hoping to convince by your expressions of such nonsensical outbursts? Where does logic and reason come into play here?

 

[Jim B]

What is your definition of a conversative?
What is your definition of a liberal (By comparison)?
Are these definitions based on viable sources within the Christian community?

I don't discuss such trivia. You are the one crusading against liberalism, a concept that is not mentioned even once in the Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Clearly you have no idea what the word "baptism" means. It means submersion; nothing more.

Matthew 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." It doesn't say baptizing them in water!!! It says "baptizing them in the name". How do you baptize someone in a name?

John 3:5 makes it even clearer: "While Jesus told Nicodemus, “Amen, Amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit”.

Baptism is the outward act that symbolizes the inward phenomenon of coming to and accepting Jesus Christ as real, as God incarnate, as the sacrificial means by which those who believe in him can be forever reconciled to God. The purpose of baptism is to give visual testimony of our commitment to Christ.

The Greek word for “baptism” is “βαπτιζω". The English letters look like this: "baptidzo." The Greek word "baptidzo" literally means to “dip” or to “immerse”.

The symbolism of baptism is that, just as Christ died and was buried, so the baptized person is submerged (whether physically or symbolically) under water. And just as Christ rose again from beneath the earth, so the baptized person rises again from beneath the water. Under the water is the believer’s old, dead, heavy, suffocating life. Out of the water, cleansed by the blood of Christ, is the believer’s new, fresh, purposeful life.

Then the disciples were confused as to what Jesus taught because they clearly baptized others in water.

Acts 8:9-25
Acts 8:26-40.
Acts 10:34-48.

If such was the case, then why didn’t Jesus or the Spirit correct them?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Who are you hoping to convince by your expressions of such nonsensical outbursts? Where does logic and reason come into play here?

Nowhere did I post an emotional outburst type statement like you have done. I did not capitalize two words and enlarge them to emphasize an emotional statement or expression alone (As you have done here).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't discuss such trivia. You are the one crusading against liberalism, a concept that is not mentioned even once in the Bible.

It kind of defeats the purpose of coming on to a forum to discuss your beliefs and yet not discuss them. I believe it is because you don’t know how. The burden of proof is up to you to back up your stated beliefs. But because we both know you’re speaking emotionally here, you really are not going to show us the goods to back up your stated words or beliefs. So we are just to take it by faith that you are correct, right?

 

[Jim B]

Dear Jim:

Asking you a question to figure out what you believe is not the same thing as asking questions that are loaded and or so as to accuse somebody of something that is not true.
It would be like Rick asking Bob: “Hey, Bob. So how long have you been beating your wife?”
Yet, Rick does not have any evidence or clues that this is so.
So his question is baseless and unfounded. This is kind of like what you are doing here.
I merely asked my questions towards you because you defended Liberalism, and I wanted to truly know what you believe.


I believe Jesus is the Son of God as Scripture says.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).



I believe Jesus is crucified and resurrected on the third day according to the Scriptures.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).


I believe Jesus created the world and the universe and He is eternal (existing from eternity’s past).
Jesus holds all things together by the word of His power. All these things can be confirmed by Scripture.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).


I believe both the Bible, and Jesus are called the Word of God (according to Scripture).
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).


I believe we have access to God’s grace through faith (Which is what Romans 5:1-2 teaches).
So no. I do believe we need to have faith in order to access God’s grace that saves.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).


I believe Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth according to Scripture.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).



Well, I do believe God uses Modern Translations for His glory in that they can help the reader who believes in the King James Bible as their final Word of authority so as to help update the archaic English in the KJB many times. But just because something that is hard to understand at times does not mean it is not perfect. Jesus spoke in parables.

I don’t believe Modern Translations can be trusted as our final Word of authority because they teach false doctrines. I have actually been doing a study on expanding my list of false doctrines that they teach. But this is all a part of my ultimate study that I hope to reveal in the future called, 101 Reasons for the King James Bible.

This was the only non-loaded question you asked me here.
Please keep in mind that I asked my questions so as to figure out what you actually believe and I was not attempting to slander your current beliefs as a Christian by asking loaded questions as you have done.



We are not dead yet and therefore I cannot judge things before the time. I don’t know which Christians (or even unbelievers) will repent and or change their beliefs to fit with what God’s Word says.
Why would you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing?
Please keep in mind you defended liberalism (Which gives me the right to ask you what you believe).

"I merely asked my questions towards you because you defended Liberalism, and I wanted to truly know what you believe" is totally dishonest! You want to tear down what I believe my putting a label on it, which is the genesis of all bigotry. I will not respond to your unChristian personal attacks.

I believe Jesus created the world and the universe and He is eternal (existing from eternity’s past).
Jesus holds all things together by the word of His power. All these things can be confirmed by Scripture.

Why do you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing? You are clearly trying to bait me with your antagonism. Is that your idea of Christian behavior???

BTW, this is stupid: 'Well, I do believe God uses Modern Translations for His glory in that they can help the reader who believes in the King James Bible as their final Word of authority so as to help update the archaic English in the KJB many times. But just because something that is hard to understand at times does not mean it is not perfect. Jesus spoke in parables." Do you really equate obsolete Englyshe with Jesus' parables?? That is total nonsense! (I hate to clue you in, but Jesus spoke Aramaic -- the common language of His day -- not in some stilted, obsolete language.)

I don’t know which conservative Christians (or even unbelievers) will repent and or change their beliefs to fit with what God’s Word says. Perhaps some will, perhaps not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If I understand your post, we agree -- for once. Baptism is immersion; it is not limited to water. Baptizing someone in the name means teaching them the true meaning of the name of the Savior.

I once held to the view that baptism in Matthew 28:19-20 was in reference to being immersed into the teachings of Jesus Christ, but I no longer hold to that viewpoint because the disciples did not understand Jesus’ words to mean this. We don’t later see the disciples explaining this to others this concept. What we do see is the disciples baptizing others in water in the name of Jesus. That is what we do see and we don’t see God correcting them on their water baptizing others.

 

[Jim B]

Nowhere did I post an emotional outburst type statement like you have done. I did not capitalize two words and enlarge them to emphasize an emotional statement or expression alone (As you have done here).

So what? You have made several personal attacks against me. Punctuation means nothing compared to slander!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"I merely asked my questions towards you because you defended Liberalism, and I wanted to truly know what you believe" is totally dishonest! You want to tear down what I believe my putting a label on it, which is the genesis of all bigotry. I will not respond to your unChristian personal attacks.

I believe Jesus created the world and the universe and He is eternal (existing from eternity’s past).
Jesus holds all things together by the word of His power. All these things can be confirmed by Scripture.

Why do you ask me a loaded question of something that is not true when I gave you no indication of such a thing? You are clearly trying to bait me with your antagonism. Is that your idea of Christian behavior???

BTW, this is stupid: 'Well, I do believe God uses Modern Translations for His glory in that they can help the reader who believes in the King James Bible as their final Word of authority so as to help update the archaic English in the KJB many times. But just because something that is hard to understand at times does not mean it is not perfect. Jesus spoke in parables." Do you really equate obsolete Englyshe with Jesus' parables?? That is total nonsense! (I hate to clue you in, but Jesus spoke Aramaic -- the common language of His day -- not in some stilted, obsolete language.)

I don’t know which conservative Christians (or even unbelievers) will repent and or change their beliefs to fit with what God’s Word says. Perhaps some will, perhaps not.

Please learn how to multiquote properly. I cannot distinguish between what you said vs. What I said. You are mixing my words in with your own (With no clear distinction).

It’s simple to learn how to multiquote.

Just put your cursor below the sentence you want to reply to and hit the ”return” button or the “enter” button.

It will create a space for you to write.

You can keep doing this as needed.

 

[Jim B]

I once held to the view that baptism in Matthew 28:19-20 was in reference to being immersed into the teachings of Jesus Christ, but I no longer hold to that viewpoint because the disciples did not understand Jesus’ words to mean this. We don’t later see the disciples explaining this to others this concept. What we do see is the disciples baptizing others in water in the name of Jesus. That is what we do see and we don’t see God correcting them on their water baptizing others.

How do you know what the disciples understood? Are you a savant?

Your interpretation of Scripture is flawed, as usual!

Romans 6:4, "Therefore we were buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life." This is what baptism means. Period.