Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Marymog]

I know you are referring to the RCC. The RCC has clearly and unambiguously convicted itself as a deceiver, not a church of Christ.

Ok...so which Protestant denominations are not a church of Christ? Some Protestant denominations have some of the same doctrines that the RCC has. Are they not a church of Christ since they hold to some Catholic doctrine?

 

[Marymog]

I don't need to settle differences between my brother or sister. I forgive them all. This is our way. Perhaps you should review the teaching of Jesus.

Forgiveness of someone does not settle the difference. They are not the same. Just because you forgave them does not mean your difference has magically disappeared. Maybe the hardness in your heart has disappeared but the difference is still there.

YOU should review the teachings of Jesus and his Apostles. Scripture gives clear instructions on how to settle a difference with your brother or sister. You say you don't need that part of Scripture. What other parts of Scripture don't you need?

 

[Zachariah]

Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

Some Christians hold to the belief that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism. I recently held to this belief but I reverted back to my old position that we are to water baptize others and be water baptized.

What is water baptism to you? What does it mean for you personally

 

[marks]

Nope, not putting words in your mouth. It's only logical. Being on the same page a lot means you are not always on the same page so that means you think she skews sometimes.

You are still pursuing this?

In fact you are putting words in my mout when you say I say that she? Aren't we talking about @Eternally Grateful ?

Because I have not said EG "skews", I don't even use that word, and I've not said something similar. Plain and simple.

To your logic . . . I don't know everything that EG believes and thinks, and being on the same page a lot does not mean that there are times we are not. There are lots of times that we are. It's an affirmative statement, not the statement you make.

Maybe there are times we are not, I don't know. So I said, we're on the same page a lot.

Hopefully that can put this to rest. Unless you want to continue to try to pit us against each other.

Much love!

 

[Marymog]

You are still pursuing this?

In fact you are putting words in my mout when you say I say that she? Aren't we talking about @Eternally Grateful ?

Because I have not said EG "skews", I don't even use that word, and I've not said something similar. Plain and simple.

To your logic . . . I don't know everything that EG believes and thinks, and being on the same page a lot does not mean that there are times we are not. There are lots of times that we are. It's an affirmative statement, not the statement you make.

Maybe there are times we are not, I don't know. So I said, we're on the same page a lot.

Hopefully that can put this to rest. Unless you want to continue to try to pit us against each other.

Much love!

Not trying to pit you against each other.

Consider the matter put to rest....

 

[Marymog]

No actually it is not.

If it was water, it would say baptize in christ in water. It does not

Baptize ceroms from a greek word. it is not even a native english word. it means to immerse, or place into. to overwhelm

when it says baptize in christ. Christ is what we are baptized into. not water.,

Hi EG,

I don't think that @DJT_47 is disagreeing with you that we are NOT baptized into Christ. Scripture makes it clear that we are. I think what DJT is saying is that we are baptized into Christ via water. Scripture and the writings of the NT Christians make that clear.

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Jim B]

Hey CadyandZoe,

There must be some facts that have led you to believe that the RCC is not The Church spoken of in Scripture. Since you KNOW that the RCC is not The Church spoken of in Scripture then you must KNOW which church is?

This is twisted logic. There is no mention of the Roman Catholic denomination in the Bible. That is a fact. One doesn't have to provide the alternative to be correct.

 

[Jim B]

Hi CZ,

At no point in no passage at any time does Scripture say that our faith must be grounded in personal bible study. It is simply not in Scripture which means you made that up.

Also, if you knew your Christian history, it wasn't until 300 years AFTER the last Apostle died that The Church finally agreed to what inspired letters were to be in the bible. So "personal Bible study" for the first 300 years would have included letters non were ultimately deemed no inspired. Your theory breaks apart based on that fact.

Also, for the first 1,500 years of Christianity bibles were not mass produced or available in all languages and the average person could not read. Another fact that destroys your theory.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Personal study of the written "books" of Scripture, both canonical and non-canonical, has gone on for thousands of years. Simply because some men decided what was canonical and what wasn't doesn't mean a lot; it was simply their opinion. There are the apocryphal "books" that are accepted by some denominations but not others.

"In Christianity, the word apocryphal was first applied to writings which were to be read privately rather than in the public context of church services -- edifying Christian works which were not considered canonical Scripture." wikipedia.

I have recently been reading "A New New Testament", which includes a number of "books" that have been discovered in recent years that give an excellent "window" into how the first believers saw their faith. It is fascinating reading and, to me, gives a far more honest glimpse into the early church than the New Testament canon does.

Its actual title is "A New New Testament: A Bible for the 21st Century Combining Traditional and Newly Discovered Texts". Its editor is Hal Taussig.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hey CadyandZoe,

There must be some facts that have led you to believe that the RCC is not The Church spoken of in Scripture. Since you KNOW that the RCC is not The Church spoken of in Scripture then you must KNOW which church is?

The Church, broadly speaking, consists of all the followers of Christ, whom God is saving and training by his Holy Spirit.

The RCC is not a Church; rather, the RCC is a but an organization founded for a religious purpose.

Contrary to the RCC, Jesus did not come to start a religion or a religious organization.

Therefore, the RCC is not the church.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Seeing into the hearts of a person has NOTHING to do with The Church being visible or invisible. That makes no sense

The RCC is a religious organization, with a headquarters in the Vatican and ruled by the Pope. The purpose of the RCC is to promote and teach the Catholic religion, which includes a praxis of repetitive and patterned behavior meant to impart grace to the fellowship or to supernaturally commune with Jesus or the Father.

The Catholic religion is neither Biblical nor authorized by Jesus Christ. It is a pagan religion performed by actors in costume. Nothing about it is Holy or True.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hi CZ,

At no point in no passage at any time does Scripture say that our faith must be grounded in personal bible study. It is simply not in Scripture which means you made that up.

I could never argue that Providence supplied Bibles in my own language so that I might leave them on the shelf. What curse has befallen me such that I should despise such a precious gift? Who can deny that our faith is grounded in the Gospel and that the Bible is the true and reliable source of God's will for mankind including the most blessed message of good news?

Also, if you knew your Christian history, it wasn't until 300 years AFTER the last Apostle died that The Church finally agreed to what inspired letters were to be in the bible. So "personal Bible study" for the first 300 years would have included letters non were ultimately deemed no inspired. Your theory breaks apart based on that fact.

Contrary to what you might have heard, the RCC did NOT decide what was to be in our Bible. Rather, the question was, "what were the gospels and letters that believers have always known to be original to the apostles?

What I read is a collection of writings known to believers at large to be original to the apostles. And these writings were translated into my own tongue, which means that I have access to the teaching of Jesus and the apostles, of whom I obey to the best of my ability.

The Holy Spirit assigns teaching roles to some people, and these people are helpful guides, but this does not relieve me of my own obligation and responsibility to study and meditate on what the Apostles wrote.

Also, for the first 1,500 years of Christianity bibles were not mass produced or available in all languages and the average person could not read. Another fact that destroys your theory.

If it destroys my theory, it destroys yours also.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Ok...so which Protestant denominations are not a church of Christ? Some Protestant denominations have some of the same doctrines that the RCC has. Are they not a church of Christ since they hold to some Catholic doctrine?

Again, the Church is not a religious organization. No Protestant denomination or Catholic organization is the church of Christ. Jesus did NOT come to organize a religion, and no organized religion is necessary. But they are harmful at times. I am not a member of the Catholic Church or a Denomination. I follow no religion and neither do I practice any ritual.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Forgiveness of someone does not settle the difference. They are not the same. Just because you forgave them does not mean your difference has magically disappeared. Maybe the hardness in your heart has disappeared but the difference is still there.

Negative. Once something is forgiven, the matter is settled. I don't need or require an official religious body to judge between me and a fellow believer.

YOU should review the teachings of Jesus and his Apostles. Scripture gives clear instructions on how to settle a difference with your brother or sister. You say you don't need that part of Scripture. What other parts of Scripture don't you need?

Mathew 5:40, "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also."

 

[Marymog]

Negative. Once something is forgiven, the matter is settled. I don't need or require an official religious body to judge between me and a fellow believer.

That makes absolutely zero sense and what you have been taught is not what Scripture teaches: Luke 17:3

You do something to offend (sin against) me. I forgive you. What you did is still an offensive sin. The matter is NOT settled. I may be at peace in MY heart, but the matter is not settled. That is unless you apologize for that offense and admit you were wrong. If you don't admit you were wrong, we go to the church to settle our differences. If you refuse to listen to the church, then you are to be treated as a heathen man (Matthew 18).

 

[Marymog]

Mathew 5:40, "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also."

Yea, I don't like that one either..

 

[Marymog]

Again, the Church is not a religious organization....

Yes, it is. Scripture makes that VERY clear when it talks about electing/selecting elders, bishops and deacons. They are the head of the "organization" and we are to listen to them....just like scripture says. How do you fulfill James 5:14?

It seems to me you are throwing out passages from Scripture you don't like....

 

[Marymog]

. Jesus did NOT come to organize a religion, and no organized religion is necessary. But they are harmful at times. I am not a member of the Catholic Church or a Denomination. I follow no religion and neither do I practice any ritual.

Yes, He did come to organize a religion.

He brought together 12 men who were the foundation of that religion, and that foundation was built upon over time. He is the cornerstone of that religious foundation. Members of that new Christian religious organization were once in a religious organization called Judaism. You should read Matthew 23:2-3. It makes clear that those Jews were to listen to the men of their religious organization.

 

[Marymog]

I follow no religion and neither do I practice any ritual.

I know you don't follow any religion. You do what YOU think is right according to scripture. You believe the truth that YOU teach yourself...

 

[Marymog]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Personal study of the written "books" of Scripture, both canonical and non-canonical, has gone on for thousands of years. Simply because some men decided what was canonical and what wasn't doesn't mean a lot; it was simply their opinion. There are the apocryphal "books" that are accepted by some denominations but not others.

"In Christianity, the word apocryphal was first applied to writings which were to be read privately rather than in the public context of church services -- edifying Christian works which were not considered canonical Scripture." wikipedia.

I have recently been reading "A New New Testament", which includes a number of "books" that have been discovered in recent years that give an excellent "window" into how the first believers saw their faith. It is fascinating reading and, to me, gives a far more honest glimpse into the early church than the New Testament canon does.

Its actual title is "A New New Testament: A Bible for the 21st Century Combining Traditional and Newly Discovered Texts". Its editor is Hal Taussig.

Jim B,

Simply their opinion? So you do not think that the 27 books in the NT are inspired?

Curious Mary

 

[CadyandZoe]

That makes absolutely zero sense and what you have been taught is not what Scripture teaches: Luke 17:3

You do something to offend (sin against) me. I forgive you. What you did is still an offensive sin. The matter is NOT settled. I may be at peace in MY heart, but the matter is not settled. That is unless you apologize for that offense and admit you were wrong. If you don't admit you were wrong, we go to the church to settle our differences. If you refuse to listen to the church, then you are to be treated as a heathen man (Matthew 18).

If you want me to go to the church, then it isn't settled.