Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:

[keithr]

wrangler - my best friend with the name wrangler - i love it - Cowboy or Jeep or both?

Probably the denim jeans. ;)

 

[David in NJ]

Probably the denim jeans. ;)

Love you my friend - thank you for that loving fun

 

[keithr]

Nope - JESUS was never created - HE was always with the FATHER - from Eternity the THREE = Father Son Holy Spirit

HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH

Do you realise that hallelujah means "praise ye Yah", or as is used in other places in the Old Testament (e.g. Psalms 177:1), "praise ye Yahweh"? There is no trinity in Yahweh.

 

[Robert Gwin]

There are a HOST of Historical Scripts complied into a BOOK, called The Holy Bible;

There are a HOST of Historical Scripts "rewritten", complied into BOOKS, having new Titles and broadly called The Bible.

The controversy OVER "which" BOOK is "approved" for "which" Christian "Denomination" is not news.

The controversy OVER different Christian Denominations ACCEPTED "interpretation" is not news.

Just sayin...People debate over Scripture, without revealing, their perferred BOOK of Scriptures.

Most likely if it says Holy Bible on it, and has 66 books, then that is the Book that I am referring to. So take your pick and we will discuss that one Taken.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you realise that hallelujah means "praise ye Yah", or as is used in other places in the Old Testament (e.g. Psalms 177:1), "praise ye Yahweh"? There is no trinity in Yahweh.

YES i do know this - Do you know that all THREE are present in Yahweh?

Brother do you seek to disobey the Lord? He gave to you a Eternal Commandment - do you hate Him for it?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Lord Jesus /Jehovah/ IAM was revealing to Moses and the World that HE comes FIRST and IS before all things.

When Moses went to Pharoah - this is what was told him = IAM has sent me to Pharoah = GOD before Pharoah

You cannot say GOD without saying FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT

God said to Moses, IAM who IAM.
God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the ELOHIM of your fathers—the ELOHIM of Abraham, the ELOHIM of Isaac, and the ELOHIM of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.…

Anyone who does not know HIS Name according to Exodus 3:14 is in error

ELOHIM Abraham - FATHER
ELOHIM Isaac - SON
ELOHIM Jacob - HOLY SPIRIT

I would imagine that your chosen version has led you to believe this sir, however a more accurate version might alter your view, depending on your heart condition of course, but God did not give His name as I AM, nor as LORD, rather He stated very clearly His name was Jehovah, and that was His chosen name forever. Now it is on your shoulders to determine what is actually true.

 

[David in NJ]

Proving they are not the same being.

Just noticed the "Son at the Right Hand not the same"

The Scripture, which cannot lie, gives Testimony that there are THREE who are ONE = Father Son Holy Spirit.

Are they the same??? Not in our limited knowledge and understanding -
But a definite YES according to Scripture in this aspect = God the Father does not separate Himself from the Son and Holy Spirit, as you and i separate them in our minds.

Jesus said "the Father is greater than I" - This is true, as the son of man - but this is not true according to the Eternal Godhead.

The Father Son and Holy Spirit are ECHAD - They are Eternal, separate but still ECHAD = United ONE.

There are distinct Realms of Operation in the THREE ELOHIM who are ONE (our language is so limited in trying to describe The Eternal ELOHIM). The key given to us is in Genesis - This is the Foundation of all TRUTH.
These are laid out in Scripture - these Operations act as ONE - Gospel of John points this out clearly.

No one has seen the Father but the Son who is in the bosom of the Father - Gospel of John

Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5

Wrangler = do not be like these jews........

 

[Robert Gwin]

Are you trying to save these two are mutually exclusive?
Because I except that both are true and also that Jesus is God.
"Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!”

John 20:28

Then I will ask this same question to you sir, if Jesus is God then he lied for sure at Mark 10:40 and 13:32, so if we cannot believe his words, what hope do we have?

 

[David in NJ]

I would imagine that your chosen version has led you to believe this sir, however a more accurate version might alter your view, depending on your heart condition of course, but God did not give His name as I AM, nor as LORD, rather He stated very clearly His name was Jehovah, and that was His chosen name forever. Now it is on your shoulders to determine what is actually true.

Just remember this friend - We will all be judged by our words compared to His WORD.

His WORD says this to you directly, right now: "If you (Robert Gwin) love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14

The SON gave a commandment to us concerning His Name beginning in Genesis - "Let US make man in OUR Image"
The SON further expounded on HIS NAME in Exodus 3 = ELOHIM Father ELOHIM Son ELOHIM Holy Spirit

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

"If you (Robert Gwin) love Me, you will keep My commandments."

 

[Taken]

Most likely if it says Holy Bible on it, and has 66 books, then that is the Book that I am referring to. So take your pick and we will discuss that one Taken.

My Preference is the KJV.
So what do you desire to discuss? Your two scriptures raised in Post #1? If so, what about them?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I only know of one translation that denies the divinity of Christ. At least the publishers of the JPS Tanaach are honest enough to footnote their altered passages with comments like "the actual translation is "uncertain."
Do you know why the New World Translation isn't included in Christian bible study software, or on Christian bible study web sites? That would be because it isn't considered a Christian translation by any Christians. Everyone with His Spirit sees it as an offense.


9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9
This was the testimony of the Holy Spirit in His indictment of the Jehovah's witnesses elders that came to my door. His testimony is all the evidence I need.

What was the testimony of the elder sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Nowhere in the gospels does Jesus identify the Father as Jehovah and since the name Jehovah doesn't appear anywhere in scripture but is the creation of translators the religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses is a complete fiction.
The covenant name of God is Yah havah, the given name of His Son is Yah shua. The first represents the eternal Spirit of the Father, the second represents the eternal Spirit in the form of man.
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18
For the antichrists among us here:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. Colossians 1:15-18
Colossians chapter one describes Jesus, the Son of God in His equality to God.

New International Version
He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.

New Living Translation
He alone has spread out the heavens and marches on the waves of the sea.

English Standard Version
who alone stretched out the heavens and trampled the waves of the sea;

Berean Study Bible
He alone stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.

King James Bible
Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

New King James Version
He alone spreads out the heavens, And treads on the waves of the sea;

All the signs Jesus worked were the works scripture attributes to God, but you say He isn't God. That's your problem, not ours. What is it about "alone" that you don't understand?

Why did you not answer my question Mike? If Jesus is God, then he obviously lied at Mk 10:40 and 13:32, so what hope do we have?

You recognize that the Father is God, the Bible reveals Jehovah is God, therefore the Father is Jehovah. Now if you can please answer my question.

 

[bbyrd009]

Acts 20 is the beginning of the end, of understanding Truth for mankind.

However, one can escape this confusion unto damnation but only by complete submission to His Blood + the Word + the Holy Spirit.

And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down—he who accuses them day and night before our God.
They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death. Revelation 12:10-11

Very few are willing to 'not love their life' for Truth

ha well ya gotta eat, right…older people seem to learn that lesson, so i wonder if maybe pretty much everyone doesnt get there before they die? dunno

 

[bbyrd009]

Well then show God had a beginning and will have an end for He is aion (or the derivative used to describe time for an individual)

well the point may have been that Yah’s “eternity” is diff from ours?

and what wolfish thing are you implying I am trying to deceive people with?

oh, that wasnt directed at you! But we read the Bible via a translator, so some stuff gets “declared” in Scripture thats not really in There? Dont accept what you read in Englyshe with confidence! At least imo. Ha we even have a passage about “confidence” right, We are “confident,” I say, and even wish…

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, the plural form of Elohe used by monotheists. Is that cryptic enough for you?

”you,” meaning Elohim? Seems straightforward enough? You are Elohim right?

 

[michaelvpardo]

In his letter to Mary John also wrote (2 John 1:3):

Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.​

So John clearly didn't believe that Jesus was God. He, and the other apostles always talk of God and of His Son Jesus - two seperate persons - and never mention a 'trinity' of three persons.

1 John 1:3 (WEB): ... our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

That's absurd. John sat under Jesus's teaching and it was Jesus who taught that God is Spirit, not some old man in the clouds. It was John who passed on Jesus's teachings that no one has seen God at any time. The educated elders of the Sanhedrin, Sauducees and Pharisees alike, condemned Jesus for blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God and by their own words it's clear that they too saw the Son of God of scripture as equal to God, they said as much.
I understand that it is impossible for those not born again of His Spirit to perceive spiritual things and that you remain spiritually dead, but that doesn't excuse you for actively trying to make His adopted children stumble or loose faith.
“But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:6
And this is the curse against the kingdom halls and all such pretenders:
3 Then he said to me, “This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole earth: ‘Every thief shall be expelled,’ according to this side of the scroll; and, ‘Every perjurer shall be expelled,’ according to that side of it.”
4 “I will send out the curse,” says the Lord of hosts;
“It shall enter the house of the thief
And the house of the one who swears falsely by My name.
It shall remain in the midst of his house
And consume it, with its timber and stones.” Zechariah 5:3-4
There's still room for repentance, but not at His return.
He is coming back and soon, very soon.

 

[michaelvpardo]

”you,” meaning Elohim? Seems straightforward enough? You are Elohim right?

No, I'm not a god or of the elohim, but its entirely biblical to call me a saint because I believe Him, I know Him, and I'm sealed with His Spirit. Aren't you?

 

[michaelvpardo]

1 Peter 3:15 (WEB):

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, with humility and fear:​

So is that how you defend your faith and hope, not by giving an answer and explanation, with meekness, but instead you hope that you can get the person questioning you banned from asking you questions?

This is a Christian forum. Cultists have no place here at all. This site is supposed to be for fellowship, not for war with the cults and its pointless to argue with the godless as they can't possibly understand the spiritual things of scripture.
I can no more convince you of the truth than the couch I'm sitting on. That's God's job.

 

[Abaxvahl]

I believe that this passage in Proverbs 8 (WEB) is referring to Jesus:

22) “Yahweh possessed me in the beginning of his work, before his deeds of old.
23) I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed.
24) When there were no depths, I was born, when there were no springs abounding with water.
25) Before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was born;​

Indeed, this passage from Proverbs and many others in the Wisdom literature do apply to the Lord Jesus, His divinity and His Incarnation especially, as seen by many holy Fathers such as St. Athanasius. My favorite Wisdom passage on Jesus is from Baruch, a bit long but worth reading:

"O Israel, how great is the house of God! and how large is the place of his possession! Great, and hath none end; high, and unmeasurable. There were the giants famous from the beginning, that were of so great stature, and so expert in war. Those did not the Lord choose, neither gave he the way of knowledge unto them: but they were destroyed, because they had no wisdom, and perished through their own foolishness. Who hath gone up into heaven, and taken her, and brought her down from the clouds? Who hath gone over the sea, and found her, and will bring her for pure gold? No man knoweth her way, nor thinketh of her path.

"But he that knoweth all things knoweth her, and hath found her out with his understanding: he that prepared the earth for evermore hath filled it with fourfooted beasts: he that sendeth forth light, and it goeth, calleth it again, and it obeyeth him with fear. The stars shined in their watches, and rejoiced: when he calleth them, they say, Here we be; and so with cheerfulness they shewed light unto him that made them. This is our God, and there shall none other be accounted of in comparison of him. He hath found out all the way of knowledge, and hath given it unto Jacob his servant, and to Israel his beloved. Afterward did he shew himself upon earth, and conversed with men."

The Wisdom books are a treasure trove of Christology.

 

[michaelvpardo]

What was the testimony of the elder sir?

He gave none. God's word shut his mouth and he with his companions turned from my door and never darkened it again.