Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:

[keithr]

I also accpet the bible teaching that Jesus is equal to His father

John 10:29 (WEB): My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
John 14:28 (WEB): ... If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said ‘I am going to my Father;’ for the Father is greater than I.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus is never called Jehovah Ron. And if Jesus is, then he is the biggest deceiver that ever hit the streets of this world, an outright liar. Best to obey his teachings and worship and serve Jehovah exclusively as Jesus said it was written Mat 4:10. Obedience to his teachings is a requirement for salvation sir 2 Thes 1:8

Robert, The word, Jehovah, is not found in the New Testament for even the Father, so not a good argument.

Who is the child in Isaiah 9:6?
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Immanuel

Should Jesus really be considered to be God because he was symbolically “named” Immanuel (Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23) which means “God is with us”? No more so than Gabriel was calling himself God when he visited Mary and declared: “The Lord is with thee” - Luke 1:28. Nor did Zacharias mean that John the Baptizer (his new son) was actually God when he was asked, “I wonder what this child [John] will turn out to be?”, and he answered, “Praise the Lord, the God of Israel, for he has come to visit his people and has redeemed them.” - Luke 1:66-68, LB.

Gabriel and Zacharias (Zechariah) meant exactly what Israelites have meant throughout thousands of years when saying “God is with us” and similar statements. They meant “God has favored us” or “God is helping us”! - Gen. 21:22; Ex. 18:19; Nu. 23:21; josh. 1:9; 1 Chron. 17:2; 2 chron. 1:1; 35:21; ezra 1:3; is. 8:10. And Joshua 1:17; 1 Samuel 10:7; 2 Chron. 15:2-4, 9 (cf., Jer. 1:8; Haggai 1:13). But if we insist on trinitarian-type “proof,” then Gabriel must have meant that he (Gabriel) is God! And Zacharias (whose own name means ‘Jehovah is renowned’ - p. 678, TDOTB) must have meant that John the Baptizer is God! – Also see 1 Sam. 17:37; 2 Sam. 14:17; 1 Ki. 8:57; 1 Chron. 17:2; 22:18; 2 Chron. 36:23; Is. 41:10; Amos 5:14; Zech 8:23. (Also see “Immanuel” in the Insight books.)

This understanding is seen throughout the Bible. For example, “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.” - 1 Corinthians 14:24-25, RSV.

Or, in a Psalm many of us apply to ourselves or our friends:

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me - ASV.

Prove that Emmanuel is to be taken allegorically.

YOur lack of knowledge of basic grammar is what keeps you in the dark.

Your examples to try to defend Jesus is not God with us are so far wrong as tobe pathetic

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus is never called Jehovah Ron. And if Jesus is, then he is the biggest deceiver that ever hit the streets of this world, an outright liar. Best to obey his teachings and worship and serve Jehovah exclusively as Jesus said it was written Mat 4:10. Obedience to his teachings is a requirement for salvation sir 2 Thes 1:8

Sorry but you do not accept the Bible as written then. I can't argue with your opinion, when it is there in black and white for all the world to see.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

John 10:29 (WEB): My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
John 14:28 (WEB): ... If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said ‘I am going to my Father;’ for the Father is greater than I.

Now you are doing what wrangler and the Jehovahs witnesses do- confuse position with essence.

Let me give a human example.

I am a husband and Father. As Father and head of my household, I am above all or greater in authority than my wife and children.

With that being said about my position in my home, my wife and children are equal to me in essence ornature. They are just as equal to me in our humanity

So while I am greater than all in my family (greater here means more exalted in position) they are just as equal to me in essence.

That is the same for The Father and son and Spirit. They are all equally God or divine, but the Father is greater (more exalted in position) than all.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL. Trinitarians wish that was the proper interpretation of Scripture.

Well it is so get used to it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wrong. The Bible is clear that the Father is God. Not once does Scripture commit the blasphemy of explicitly saying God the Son.

We too are sons of God but that does not make us God any more than anyone Chosen and sent by God, including his 1st son.

Now you are straining at gnats to swallow a camel.

Jesus is called Jehovah,
Jesus is called God
Jesus is called the First and Last
Jesus is called the Almighty.

No nowhere does it explicitly say "God the Son" Thatr is simply a phrase used to differentiate the persons found in the one TRUE Elohim God (plural)
and o ne true Adonai Lord (plural)

 

[marks]

Yea, ignore the passages where Angels actually destroyed the cities.

Quote please . . .

 

[michaelvpardo]

Both are true and The Apostles ( Thomas, Paul, Peter and John) called Christ their God in John 20:28, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1 and 1 John 5:20. There are many other passages that refer to Christ as God as well.

hope this helps !!!

No sir, that is not a Bible teaching

According to you, but not according to scripture.

 

[ChristisGod]

According to you, but not according to scripture.

According to both

 

[michaelvpardo]

According to both

Ok, where in scripture does Jesus refer to His Father as Jehovah (Yah havah)?
And what did Jesus mean when He answered "before Abraham was, I Am"?
In the old testament there are many theophanies or appearances of God with Abraham, Manoah and his wife, and Moses as 3 examples. Scripture tells us that they all saw God, yet the New Testament tells us that no one has seen God at any time, so who did the Old Testament saints actually see?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. John 1:1-3
Who is the 1st passage of John's gospel about, Yah havah or Yah shua?
Did Yah havah or Yah shua create all things?
The correct answer is "yes". If you're not seeing that in scripture, look again. Christianity is monotheistic, not pluralistic. The trinity describes one God known in three persons, not three separate entities.
Jesus said quite plainly God is spirit. Spirit is not physical nor part of creation.
If you only have the simplest understanding of God, that's ok. It really doesn't matter as long as you're trusting in His Son, our Lord and Savior, but:
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18
Scripture has told us repeatedly of people seeing the LORD and Jesus is indeed Lord of Lords.
Believe what you want, but I'll stick with scripture.

 

[amadeus]

No. Jesus never taught the trinity once.

I agree! Some have construed his words to support a trinity, but never was it the focus of his teaching according to what I have read in the gospels!

 

[amadeus]

...

No nowhere does it explicitly say "God the Son" Thatr is simply a phrase used to differentiate the persons found in the one TRUE Elohim God (plural)
and o ne true Adonai Lord (plural)

Is this then similar to what Catholics do when they call Mary, the mother of God?

 

[keithr]

Now you are doing what wrangler and the Jehovahs witnesses do- confuse position with essence.

<snip>

That is the same for The Father and son and Spirit. They are all equally God or divine, but the Father is greater (more exalted in position) than all.

"No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand" implies that his Father is more powerful than all living beings. Therefore Jesus is not equal to his Father, as he said ("the Father is greater than I").

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hello @Robert Gwin,

The quotation itself says all that is needful. It is quoted from a Psalm of David (Psalm 110:1)

'The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit Thou at My right hand,
until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.'

* Psalm 110:1, Referring to the royal dignity, priesthood, victories, and triumphs of the MESSIAH. 'The LORD' (Jehovah) 'said unto my Lord' (Adon). The word 'Adon' is used of God as the Lord as ruler in the Earth.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Chris I give you a thumbs up for posting that alteration in the Bible, many do not even realize that verse has been altered. That is the main verse I use to show how some Bibles deliberately alter the written word to support a doctrine. It is helpful to know as you pointed out that the second Lord was translated correctly as the original word as you mentioned was Adonai, whereas YWWH was actually what was translated LORD, which is actually Jehovah's name. It helps to know that everywhere the LORD is all capitalized that is where God's name is.

No doubt you know that Jesus was the second Lord, are you aware that sitting at the right hand of Jehovah is actually representing authority? Jesus is in the number 2 position in heaven, subject only to Jehovah Himself 1 Cor 11:3.

 

[Wrangler]

And did not Rachel call her father "lord"?

And Sara called her husband master, which is a synonym of lord.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hello @Robert Gwin,
,
The Name associated with God as Creator is the Hebrew word, 'Elohim' (see Genesis 1:1): it indicates His relation to mankind as His creatures. The Name Jehovah is used of God in covenant relation with His People. The context determines the usage of these names.

I will not comment on what you have said in relation to the truth revealed in Colossians 1:16. The Lord Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God: and all things were created by Him.

I use the KJV by the way. I have had cause to refer to the Jehovah's Witness Bible and have found it wanting.

No time now.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I commented in your other post Chris about your showing the alteration of the KJV of the Bible. The KJV is my 3rd recommended Bible, and truth can be found in it, but it requires a lot of work, like understanding the inconsistent way they translate words, like using by in Col 1:16 which totally changes the meaning. Take a gander at the original word en there, and the many ways they rendered it throughout the Bible:
ejn En (en);
Word Origin: Greek, Preposition, Strong #: 1722

1. in, by, with etc.

KJV Word Usage and Count
in 1874
by 141
with 134
among 117
at 112
on 46
through 37
miscellaneous 321

Perhaps like me at one time you actually think the KJV is the Bible rather than a version of it. With just a little research it is easy to see the many deliberate manipulations to support a doctrine of theirs. It is so great to live in these times where Bible truths have been revealed maam Dan 12:4

 

[Wrangler]

Well it is so get used to it.

No. That’s just it. Trinitarian’s cannot admit the difference between an explicit teaching in Scripture, like man was created in 6 days, to verses that merely ‘supports’ a doctrine one starts with imposes a connection, such as John 1:1, where other valid interpretations of vague passages apply.

 

[Wrangler]

I agree! Some have construed his words to support a trinity, but never was it the focus of his teaching according to what I have read in the gospels!

It’s part of what Brother Kel on YouTube calls the trinity delusion.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Robert, The word, Jehovah, is not found in the New Testament for even the Father, so not a good argument.

Who is the child in Isaiah 9:6?
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus is the child in Isa 9:6 maam. Jehovah is actually in the Greek scriptures but of course the original Bible does not exist. Perhaps you don't realize but many verses were quotations from the Hebrew scriptures, perhaps you can observe that for yourself if you have a cross reference Bible. A couple of good examples is Mat 4:10 and Romans 10:13; in fact if one wasn't aware that Paul was quoting Joel 2:32 at Romans 10:13, one would think that you would have to call on Jesus' name rather than Jehovah's. The New World translation of the Holy Scriptures restored Jehovah as it originally was written in the "New Testament" maam. You wouldn't think that Jesus and Paul would alter the words when they quoted them do you?

I didn't tell you where the words Jesus quoted in Mat 4:10, do you know where it was written maam?