Do we search the scriptures or simply read our Sunday School booklets?

[Spyder]

The Truth is Elusive​

If one would ask a professing Christian about their belief in the Bible, nine times out of ten, we would hear “of course!”

Is that the truth, though? Do we really? Our beliefs and our behavior prove otherwise, and our actions speak louder than our words.

The common response to statements like this is “well, it is our understanding that is the problem.” I believe that the answer is that the problem is not our understanding but our ignorance. Most people do not know what the Bible actually says. Many people, however, know what their teachers and preachers have told them.

Those teachers and preachers have shown proof-texts to support the things that they have claimed as “the Bible says.” We highlight those verses and then claim that we know what God has said based on what we have been taught.

However, we are NOT like the Bereans.

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Acts 17:11 (ESV)

We do not examine the Scriptures daily to see if the things we are told are true. If we like the teacher or the preacher we just accept it as true. Or, if we like what they say, we accept it as true. That is how the majority of us come up with our “beliefs.”

I find that I can generally determine if a person is a student of the Bible or a Student of a Doctrine simply by asking a person why he or she believes what they hold as true. Some of them are advanced enough in their doctrines that they know the references to the proof texts that they were given. However, I have yet to find one who can also reference those verses that speak against their doctrine and explain why they do not hold those verses as applicable. People are simply unaware of them, and the sad part is that most of them want to remain unaware of them.

Life is simpler if they remain in the position they are in without having to reconsider what they believe. Changing what they believe puts a break in their life. It causes some problems:

• They have to realize that their teacher was wrong
• They have to wonder what else they were taught that is wrong
• They may feel some guilt that they had not read the Bibles for themselves.
• They have to figure out what they are going to do with this new version of “the truth.”

Another issue they have to deal with, but it is deeper and might be missed unless a person is a deeper thinker than others, what about all those other people who already knew the truth but were condemned by friends and family as being heretics and wrong for all those years. To now find out that they were correct all along mandates that we do something about all our false accusations.

There is also the issue of having been told that “every word in the Bible comes from God.” Even when shown that not everything came from God’s mouth, there lies the problem of reconciling that one statement with the reality that the Bible claims for itself that not every word came from God.

Take for instance, Paul’s own words:

“Now as a concession, not a command, I say this.” 1 Corinthians 7:6 (ESV)

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16 (ESV)

“To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.” 1 Corinthians 7:12 (ESV)

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)

In the Bible, words matter. However, most of us will use some words but not others. When people argue theology, sometimes the truth or error depends on how takes one word over another. We resort to manipulating Greek definitions in order to make a verse say one thing despite the fact that it actually says another.

Yet, here, in those examples; it is implicit that Paul was speaking for himself and not for God. I am aware that there are those who would spiritualize all that Paul wrote and may even claim that Paul was unaware that these were God’s words being placed in his mouth. To that, I hold no argument. It is a waste of time to explore the contradictions that such thinking will cause with other verses as well.

The greatest divider of churches – the major cause of the thousands of denominations we have today – are the word of Paul. It is how we perceive the messages that Paul left in his letters that divides us. I would dare say that, for some people, Paul’s words hold more validity than Jesus’ words.

We finally get the chance to discover a truth that we can claim as our own when we become wise enough to realize that we don't own our truths, because we never examined the ones given to us at church.

 

[Davy]

I started out in my youth like that, only learning about The Bible based on what my mother's church system put in their little Sunday school hand outs. And I learned later that the preacher of our church kept his sermons within the lines of the Church Quaterlies sent to him from some far away city. If he didn't tow the line, he would be replaced by the elders of the church.

That kind of working is what produces those like the 'old bottles' in Jesus' parable (Matt.9:17). The old bottles represent those who go to church all their lives but are still sucking the milk of God's Word, refusing to mature to the "strong meat" of The Word. And because of that, they easily fall to the many traditions of men, the "leaven" which Jesus warned about (Matt.6:6-12).

 

[Spyder]

I started out in my youth like that, only learning about The Bible based on what my mother's church system put in their little Sunday school hand outs. And I learned later that the preacher of our church kept his sermons within the lines of the Church Quaterlies sent to him from some far away city. If he didn't tow the line, he would be replaced by the elders of the church.

That kind of working is what produces those like the 'old bottles' in Jesus' parable (Matt.9:17). The old bottles represent those who go to church all their lives but are still sucking the milk of God's Word, refusing to mature to the "strong meat" of The Word. And because of that, they easily fall to the many traditions of men, the "leaven" which Jesus warned about (Matt.6:6-12).

Yes, they do. And those teachings become so ingrained into the minds of the congregation that they cannot be dislodged through scripture. That is probably because they did not get correctly taught through scripture.

We first have to admit that we "don't know what we don't know."

 

[Davy]

Yes, they do. And those teachings become so ingrained into the minds of the congregation that they cannot be dislodged through scripture. That is probably because they did not get correctly taught through scripture.

We first have to admit that we "don't know what we don't know."

And thus Jesus in His parable said you put 'new wine' into 'new bottles', so both are preserved. Once I got into God's written Word to do in-depth Bible study for myself, then I noticed that many deeper Truths were more easily grasped by new babes instead of those stuck on the 'milk'.

 

[Jack]

Two main Bible doctrines are Jesus is God and Hell fire is everlasting.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Two things that have helped me "grow In The Grace Of God, The Lord Jesus Christ":

1) Bible study Rules
+
2) "Distinctions" of Prophecy vs MYSTERY

Amen.

 

[Wynona]

We do not examine the Scriptures daily to see if the things we are told are true. If we like the teacher or the preacher we just accept it as true. Or, if we like what they say, we accept it as true. That is how the majority of us come up with our “beliefs.”

Absolutely.

I dislike the term "deconstructionist" because I don't like being associated with people who have a low view of Scripture. But my husband and I are because we can't find a church that follows Scripture over the traditions of men.

 

[Spyder]

Absolutely.

I dislike the term "deconstructionist" because I don't like being associated with people who have a low view of Scripture. But my husband and I are because we can't find a church that follows Scripture over the traditions of men.

I cannot either. Very few want to even think that they have been taught things in error.

 

[Spyder]

Two main Bible doctrines are Jesus is God and Hell fire is everlasting.

The Bible does not say Jesus is God. Man does.

 

[Behold]

The Truth is Elusive​

The greatest divider of churches – the major cause of the thousands of denominations we have today – are the word of Paul. It is how we perceive the messages that Paul left in his letters that divides us. I would dare say that, for some people, Paul’s words hold more validity than Jesus’ words.

If you are not a student of Paul's epistles, then you are not student of the NT.

its Paul who told us to "Study to show ourselves approved".

So, the "doctrine" for the "church" comes from Paul, not the Pope, and not from a denomination., and God knows it does not come from John Calvinism, or the "cult of the virgin".

 

[Spyder]

If you are not a student of Paul's epistles, then you are not student of the NT.

its Paul who told us to "Study to show ourselves approved".

So, the "doctrine" for the "church" comes from Paul, not the Pope, and not from a denomination., and God knows it does not come from John Calvinism, or the "cult of the virgin".

Rather than see your post as one criticizing those who focus on "the red letters," I agree that the teachings of Paul are very important.

 

[Jack]

The Bible does not say Jesus is God. Man does.

Jesus is called "the Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" in Isaiah 6. Jesus is called "the Almighty" in Rev 1. Couldn't be any clearer.

 

[Behold]

Rather than see your post as one criticizing those who focus on "the red letters," I agree that the teachings of Paul are very important.

Paul's letters existed before "greek textual criticism" of the Holy Bible took over.
Paul's letters existed before "denominations" came to try to control and fleece the "sheep" with Pope's and other assorted pretenders.
Paul's letters existed before "Christian Scholarship" decided to become "the Authority".

So, when we want the Truth, we go to the SOURCE, not to the critics or to those whose God is their "opinion".

Philippians 3:17... is not a request.

 

[Spyder]

Paul's letters existed before "greek textual criticism" of the Holy Bible took over.
Paul's letters existed before "denominations" came to try to control and fleece the "sheep" with Pope's and other assorted pretenders.
Paul's letters existed before "Christian Scholarship" decided to become "the Authority".

So, when we want the Truth, we go to the SOURCE, not to the critics or to those whose God is their "opinion".

Philippians 3:17... is not a request.

Yes, but lest we miss it, Paul's letters were translated by those who hold to doctrines and try to "help" us to understand. The source of the words of Paul is God.

 

[Wrangler]

Most people do not know what the Bible actually says. Many people, however, know what their teachers and preachers have told them.

Yep. Most people who ever knew about the Bible heard it spoken by others.

 

[Bob Estey]

The Truth is Elusive​

If one would ask a professing Christian about their belief in the Bible, nine times out of ten, we would hear “of course!”

Is that the truth, though? Do we really? Our beliefs and our behavior prove otherwise, and our actions speak louder than our words.

The common response to statements like this is “well, it is our understanding that is the problem.” I believe that the answer is that the problem is not our understanding but our ignorance. Most people do not know what the Bible actually says. Many people, however, know what their teachers and preachers have told them.

Those teachers and preachers have shown proof-texts to support the things that they have claimed as “the Bible says.” We highlight those verses and then claim that we know what God has said based on what we have been taught.

However, we are NOT like the Bereans.

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Acts 17:11 (ESV)

We do not examine the Scriptures daily to see if the things we are told are true. If we like the teacher or the preacher we just accept it as true. Or, if we like what they say, we accept it as true. That is how the majority of us come up with our “beliefs.”

I find that I can generally determine if a person is a student of the Bible or a Student of a Doctrine simply by asking a person why he or she believes what they hold as true. Some of them are advanced enough in their doctrines that they know the references to the proof texts that they were given. However, I have yet to find one who can also reference those verses that speak against their doctrine and explain why they do not hold those verses as applicable. People are simply unaware of them, and the sad part is that most of them want to remain unaware of them.

Life is simpler if they remain in the position they are in without having to reconsider what they believe. Changing what they believe puts a break in their life. It causes some problems:

• They have to realize that their teacher was wrong
• They have to wonder what else they were taught that is wrong
• They may feel some guilt that they had not read the Bibles for themselves.
• They have to figure out what they are going to do with this new version of “the truth.”

Another issue they have to deal with, but it is deeper and might be missed unless a person is a deeper thinker than others, what about all those other people who already knew the truth but were condemned by friends and family as being heretics and wrong for all those years. To now find out that they were correct all along mandates that we do something about all our false accusations.

There is also the issue of having been told that “every word in the Bible comes from God.” Even when shown that not everything came from God’s mouth, there lies the problem of reconciling that one statement with the reality that the Bible claims for itself that not every word came from God.

Take for instance, Paul’s own words:

“Now as a concession, not a command, I say this.” 1 Corinthians 7:6 (ESV)

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16 (ESV)

“To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.” 1 Corinthians 7:12 (ESV)

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)

In the Bible, words matter. However, most of us will use some words but not others. When people argue theology, sometimes the truth or error depends on how takes one word over another. We resort to manipulating Greek definitions in order to make a verse say one thing despite the fact that it actually says another.

Yet, here, in those examples; it is implicit that Paul was speaking for himself and not for God. I am aware that there are those who would spiritualize all that Paul wrote and may even claim that Paul was unaware that these were God’s words being placed in his mouth. To that, I hold no argument. It is a waste of time to explore the contradictions that such thinking will cause with other verses as well.

The greatest divider of churches – the major cause of the thousands of denominations we have today – are the word of Paul. It is how we perceive the messages that Paul left in his letters that divides us. I would dare say that, for some people, Paul’s words hold more validity than Jesus’ words.

We finally get the chance to discover a truth that we can claim as our own when we become wise enough to realize that we don't own our truths, because we never examined the ones given to us at church.

I think it's a good idea to read the entire Bible, cover to cover.

 

[Pearl]

We do not examine the Scriptures daily to see if the things we are told are true. If we like the teacher or the preacher we just accept it as true. Or, if we like what they say, we accept it as true. That is how the majority of us come up with our “beliefs.”

Do you include yourself in that generalisation? And I say we can do both - search scriptures and read our booklets.

 

[Davy]

If you are not a student of Paul's epistles, then you are not student of the NT.

its Paul who told us to "Study to show ourselves approved".

So, the "doctrine" for the "church" comes from Paul, not the Pope, and not from a denomination., and God knows it does not come from John Calvinism, or the "cult of the virgin".

Ideas like Paul's Epistles only are for the Christian Church are just as bad, since doing that rejects many Scriptures in all of God's Word that Paul did not pen which still are for the whole Christian Church, and quite a bit of it was first written in the Old Testament prophets.

Because of this, I recommend the serious Christian Bible student get The Companion Bible which is a KJV study Bible put together by the 19th century British Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger. While studying The New Testament, especially Paul's Epistles, one can look over in the side margin where Bullinger shows when Paul was teaching a matter with quoting parts from The Old Testament prophets! And Paul was teaching the Christian Church when he quoted from the prophets!

How can that be?

It's because GOD is Who gave His Word to those who wrote it down for all of us, and not just to one man.

 

[Spyder]

Do you include yourself in that generalisation? And I say we can do both - search scriptures and read our booklets.

For a very long time, the generalization applied to me as well. It is how I was taught to learn "the bible." I put in the effort that was shown to me as the right way to understand. I learned to simply trust the man rather than pray for God to teach me. Eventually I woke up and realized that I was not adhering to the instruction to trust God's truth rather than man's.

Yes, we can search scriptures and the booklets - but the truth that we need comes from God. The booklets (if sourced from various writers who have apposing views) are valuable to opening our minds to accept that there are things which we don't actually know. While I am not a mind-reader and not able to search anyone's heart, I do think that trusting God for truth is not something that many people do. That simply is not something that we have been taught during our growth as Christians. Instead, we are shown to adhere to a confession/creed or doctrine made by man.

His truth can make us upset, uncomfortable, and even cause us to ask Him to take it back. But then, I think God's responses to my prayers were delayed until I was able to receive them. It was not easy.

I think it is confusing to be told to "search the scriptures" because it sounds like just reading the Bible du jour. That didn't work for me. I had to be among others Christians who were open to read, converse, explore, and search along with me. Eventually, all my mixed thoughts on a topic melted down to one conviction. This is a time consuming process as, I think, years of previous sand-foundation beliefs had to be unlearned. Realizing that I had been wrong all those years was sobering.

It is very "human" for us to simply claim to believe everything that a denomination teaches and feel a sense of belonging and receive compliments from others in that same denomination. It is not so human to be willing to clear our minds and open our thoughts up to apposing views and ask God to boil them down to one truth.

 

[Pearl]

For a very long time, the generalization applied to me as well. It is how I was taught to learn "the bible." I put in the effort that was shown to me as the right way to understand. I learned to simply trust the man rather than pray for God to teach me. Eventually I woke up and realized that I was not adhering to the instruction to trust God's truth rather than man's.

Yes, we can search scriptures and the booklets - but the truth that we need comes from God. The booklets (if sourced from various writers who have apposing views) are valuable to opening our minds to accept that there are things which we don't actually know. While I am not a mind-reader and not able to search anyone's heart, I do think that trusting God for truth is not something that many people do. That simply is not something that we have been taught during our growth as Christians. Instead, we are shown to adhere to a confession/creed or doctrine made by man.

His truth can make us upset, uncomfortable, and even cause us to ask Him to take it back. But then, I think God's responses to my prayers were delayed until I was able to receive them. It was not easy.

I think it is confusing to be told to "search the scriptures" because it sounds like just reading the Bible du jour. That didn't work for me. I had to be among others Christians who were open to read, converse, explore, and search along with me. Eventually, all my mixed thoughts on a topic melted down to one conviction. This is a time consuming process as, I think, years of previous sand-foundation beliefs had to be unlearned. Realizing that I had been wrong all those years was sobering.

It is very "human" for us to simply claim to believe everything that a denomination teaches and feel a sense of belonging and receive compliments from others in that same denomination. It is not so human to be willing to clear our minds and open our thoughts up to apposing views and ask God to boil them down to one truth.

i have gained knowledge of God through my bible, through Christian books and through daily devotional booklets. If we are open to the Holy Spirit he will impart knowledge to us.