Do Demon's Dwell Within Christians?

[rockytopva]

I use to serve in youth camp and I made a comment to a fellow councilor about the 'Devil in church people.' Well, he went bizurk. He tried to get me removed from camp. I went years without seeing that brother and then he looks me up at camp meeting to apologize. I have often wondered what drove him to apologize? Did some political ordeal arise within the church? Did he buck up against the wrong brother? Hmmmm.

I have heard preachers say that the devil and the flesh are so akin to one another that it is hard to discern between the two of them. When Christians go out of the Spirit into the flesh... Look out! The bad thing is that most of them feel they are still in the Spirit!

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that m = E/c2.... Everything came together with energy and light. And their are varieties...


Natural E/c2 - Mass
Mental E/c2 - Intelligence
Spiritual E/c2 - Energy (Motivation, Love, Warmth) Light (Faith, Hope, Charity, and Joy)


And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. - 2 Corinthians 11:14


There are other wavelengths of light that can be produced from the flesh and the devil...

1. Sex - Sex can produce a spiritual light
2. Idolatry / Witchcraft - Worshiping other God's can produce a false hope, faith, and charity
3. Variance - Strife can produce a spiritual light and make one feel justified.
4. Emulations - Jealousies can produce a strange type of motivation.
5. Arrogance - The original sin that caused Lucifer to fall. Ego can produce a light.

The problem with these wrong types of light is that they are not of God. Then we have spiritual darkness.... If m = E/c2 then n (nothing) = z (absolute zero) / Darkness (d) - which is the opposite of E/c2....

Natural z/d - Nothing - Outer space
Mental z/d - Ignorance
Spiritual z/d - Nothing (Laziness, Hate, Coldness) Darkness (Fear, Depression, Greed, and Sorrow)

Take the shootings of the last month. These individuals clearly are far removed from their creators spiritual E/c2. Satan has been away from the true E/c2 for so long that he detests it. If we depart from the true spiritual energies we can become like the devil himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aiy1Zp_AUXA

 

[marksman]

That in my opinion is lawlessness,

Thankyou Rex for making it clear that it is your opinion. Duly noted.

I am aware that there are whole churches out there who are committed to denying the fact of the gifts of the Spirit being a part of everyday life for the believer to use as led by the Holy Spirit.

In one of our local churches it has a sign in the entrance that says they do not acknowledge the gifts of the Spirit in the church.

I had my theological education at a Brethren Bible College and I loved it. When they lectured on their dispensational teaching, I just smiled to myself. The conversation over meals was very lively and interesting.

After Bible College, I ended up in a charismatic Brethren Church. When the Holy Spirit began to move on the Historical Churches in the UK in the late 50s and early 60s, the Anglican and the Brethren seemed the most affected by the move and some pockets of the Catholic Church.

Sad to say, the Brethren rejected it and told their Elders who were baptised in the Spirit at that time to give it up or leave. Our Charismatic Brethren church was started by one of these Elders who was asked to leave.

This happened all over the country and the churches that they founded became some of the most dynamic churches in the country. The supernatural was quite normal and part of their everyday life.

Of course those that were opposed to the moving of the Holy Spirit in the lives of churches and of believers constantly repeated verses that have been thrown at us here, and like here, they gave a distinct impression that these churches were the tools of the devil.

The churches that responded to God's call in the move of the Holy Spirit then by and large powered on and became some of the biggest churches in the nation. The critics just faded into the background.

So what is the moral of the story? Just this. Whenever there is a move of God at any time, you will usually find that the fiercest opponents are not unbelievers. It is usually churches that have experienced God's blessing and visitation in the past but have institutionalised it and don't want to to be disturbed.

When the Holy Spirit moved on the historical churches in the UK, the fiercest critics were the Pentecostal churches. About 10 years down the track, they apologised and said it was obviously a genuine work of God.

The criticism of Toronto is no different. A case of don't rock my boat so the best thing is to paint it in a bad light and then I can ignore it.

Since the day of Pentecost, there has always been someone or some church that has tried to bury the supernatural and the gifts of the Spirit. What you might call, par for the course. Despite this fact, 2,000 years later they are alive and well and being used by God to bring thousands to Christ, healing, deliverance and freedom.

I say to anyone who wants to dismiss them in favour of their spiritually correct theological opinion, be my guest. Whilst you live a powerless life for there is no power outside of the Holy Spirit, I and millions of others will enjoy what we know is the truth without any fear of what we are doing being motivated by Satan.

If that is how you see it, that is your problem not mine.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear M,

Well spoken...very good testimony.

I don't get the attitude of those who want to restrict what others can get of God. If there is even the slightest possibility that my Father has something more for me I want to know about it and ask for it.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

The criticism of Toronto is no different. A case of don't rock my boat so the best thing is to paint it in a bad light and then I can ignore it.

Since the day of Pentecost, there has always been someone or some church that has tried to bury the supernatural and the gifts of the Spirit. What you might call, par for the course. Despite this fact, 2,000 years later they are alive and well and being used by God to bring thousands to Christ, healing, deliverance and freedom.

I say to anyone who wants to dismiss them in favour of their spiritually correct theological opinion, be my guest. Whilst you live a powerless life for there is no power outside of the Holy Spirit, I and millions of others will enjoy what we know is the truth without any fear of what we are doing being motivated by Satan.

If that is how you see it, that is your problem not mine.

Its mention threw the scriptures that tongues created a problem as well as baptism. Paul spoke about both and attempted to bring a greater understanding that is largely ignored by those that that are rooted in unmentioned manifestations as well as expelling demons from Christians. Not only laying hold of things that are not mentioned or taught, they also continue to place a larger emphases on things taught that are elementary. In effect making the elementary the pillars and foundation of a church in tongues and baptisms that has reached the point of simply being ridiculous.

The writer of Hebrews the end of ch5 into ch 6, calling such things elementary and those who continually spoke of such things were unable to distinguish right from wrong. They are babys needing milk. Most Pentecostal "revivals" look like Jack Nicholson dropped off a bus load of friends from "one flew over the cuckoo's nest" Toronto -> holy laughter--> see below video

The latter part of Mark also indicates a division, in the fact that the earliest and what some consider the most reliable manuscripts don't include the bases that many Pentecostal believers use and reference as a foundational pillar.


Footnotes:

1. Mark 16:9 Some manuscripts end the book with 16:8; others include verses 9–20 immediately after verse 8. At least one manuscript inserts additional material after verse 14; some manuscripts include after verse 8 the following: But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation. These manuscripts then continue with verses 9–20

I disregard such scripture simply because If it is inspired you will find evidence or mention of it else where. The handling of serpents case in point everyone should know about the churches that practice snake handling as proof of something? I think its proof of being misled by a spirit and being a bit crazy as well.

We also have more than a few warnings about a different gospel I don't see anything in scripture that slightly resembles the Toronto silliness. You are right in the fact that IMO your teachings and unmentioned manifestations, tongues, baptisms the casting out of demons with-in Christians were apparently a problem even in the early church.

The reasonable conclusion is to seek what the scriptures have to say but you don't do that you would rather stand outside the word and accuse those that question you of missing a new and great revelation.

Are we instructed to ignore teaching that don't have a root or foundation on the Apostles?
Or are we to warn others.

The criticism of Toronto is no different. A case of don't rock my boat so the best thing is to paint it in a bad light and then I can ignore it.

The endless accusations of being unloving; let us be in spite of scripture which does not support such things speaks volumes.
Its you that is crying out don't rock my boat, at every point using scripture to defer criticism to un-scriptural nonsense. You claim those that are critical are not practicing the gifts of the HS. Yet you have no evidence of such gifts such as HOLY LAUGHTER ect ect


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn6FF5nhTSs

 

[notforgotten]

I was possessed by a demon twice. God, Jesus and the angels reached out to my broken soul.

 

[marksman]

Its you that is crying out don't rock my boat, at every point using scripture to defer criticism to un-scriptural nonsense. You claim those that are critical are not practicing the gifts of the HS. Yet you have no evidence of such gifts such as HOLY LAUGHTER ect ect

Your opinion duly noted Rex and may I be as bold to say ignored as I have evidence to the contrary but I realise that you will never understand that as the dead letter of the law is more important to you than the living word of faith.

I say that not as criticism because I used to think exactly as you do so I have been there done that. However, as I have got older and wiser I have dumped my prejudices and have imbibed the new wine of the Spirit and all that it involves.

As Peter said on the day of Pentecost "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel..."

And as a visiting preacher said "If this isn't that, I will keep hold of this until I get that."

Please note that Peter did not know this was that until he SAW the supernatural. We need more "this is that" experiences to bring the scripture alive to us.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

We deal with demons every day in various ways. The way the world got so evil is that their is active evil making it that way. However, Christ gave us His name ot use against it.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[KingJ]

Hi All,

I believe that all Christians (and certainly non-believers) have demons that dwell within them to some extent. Some are mild infestations while others are severe. When someone people say "the devil made me do it" that is not far off the mark.

Evil spirits want their presence kept secret so that they can work their dark purposes without hindrance. Exposing that they do exist and do dwell within and influence believers is essential to our ability to combat them.

Demons run from Jesus and if Christians are one with Christ, they will do likewise with us. Jesus will simply NOT share us with a demon. DUH???


Christians CAN be demon oppressed but NOT demon possessed!

 

[Axehead]

Demons run from Jesus and if Christians are one with Christ, they will do likewise with us. Jesus will simply NOT share us with a demon. DUH???


Christians CAN be demon oppressed but NOT demon possessed!

Let's look at that logic remembering that we are joined to Christ in our spirit.

If Jesus will not share us with a demon, then who is Jesus sharing a Christian with who is committing adultery? Or lying (lying spirit) such as Ananias and Saphira?

When the ark of the covenant was in the midst of the Children of Israel, and then their borders were invaded by the wicked nations around them (due to sin), who was God sharing the Children of Israel with, then?

You see, it doesn't make sense to say Jesus will not share us with unclean spirits. Jesus is looking to us to make that decision. We are the ones that are to keep the doors closed to the Enemy. He is not a force-field around us or Kevlar vest that protects us when we fall into sin. When we sin, we are choosing to align ourselves with the Adversary and the Lord's hedge of protection will come down if we do not quickly repent. Just like the Hebrew Children. And if we continue in sin and open ourselves up to the powers of darkness, they will surely accept our invitation. Jesus Christ is not an accomplice to our sin, protecting us while we "party".

The powers of darkness look for a body so they can wield their influence over our soul (mind, will and emotions). And what oppresses a Christian is when they have given the enemy a foothold within them. This will oppress your spirit and grieve the Holy Spirit of God.

What is so hard to understand? Can a Christian have a demon? Why he can have whatever he invites into his life. Simple. No force field, no patriot missiles. If you open yourself up to the powers of darkness, they will not decline your invitation because you are born-again. The ark of God did not keep the surrounding wicked nations from constantly trying to invade Israel and build strongholds within them now, did it?

Gal_6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear A,

I like what you said about the ark of the covenant and the children of Israel. Very good example.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[KingJ]

Axehead, I like the way you using logic and lol at the forcefield / patriot missile analogy :). I still disagree with you.

When the ark of the covenant was in the midst of the Children of Israel, and then their borders were invaded by the wicked nations around them (due to sin), who was God sharing the Children of Israel with, then?

Are all the Jews going to be in heaven? No. So it seems the Jews were His chosen race (for a purpose) but are not all 'His children'. As long as my children are under my care and submit to me ruling the house, I will not allow a murderer in.
God protected the Jews as much as was needed for His purpose of choosing them to be achieved.

If Jesus will not share us with a demon, then who is Jesus sharing a Christian with who is committing adultery? Or lying (lying spirit) such as Ananias and Saphira?

Sin. It is the same as a naughty child / naughty spouse. Just because my child stole something does not mean I let a thief into his room or disown him. Though I will agree that if we were to make shipwreck of our salvation by continuing in an extremity of sin and like the prodigal son, leave our Father after His best efforts to keep us, we can be possessed as we are no longer Christians.

You see, it doesn't make sense to say Jesus will not share us with unclean spirits. Jesus is looking to us to make that decision.

We have already made that decision. I don't believe any unsaved person can be possessed unless they want it. But as saved Christians, we have made the decision to submit ourselves entirely to Jesus, we are possessed by Jesus! With God now our Father, He is able to protect us!

We are the ones that are to keep the doors closed to the Enemy

Not so. My kids fall under my protection.

He is not a force-field around us or Kevlar vest that protects us when we fall into sin. When we sin, we are choosing to align ourselves with the Adversary and the Lord's hedge of protection will come down if we do not quickly repent. Just like the Hebrew Children. And if we continue in sin and open ourselves up to the powers of darkness, they will surely accept our invitation. Jesus Christ is not an accomplice to our sin, protecting us while we "party".

God does not give us to the dogs for mistakes. We need to run far from God / lose our salvation. It is so important for Christians to grasp how difficult it is to lose our salvation. The best example I can think of is my wife. I will not leave her for watching porn (being bad) or once-off adultery (being very bad). As it is ''mistakes'' that can be remedied, not a complete change of heart intention (terrible), which 6 months plus of adultery would be.

The powers of darkness look for a body so they can wield their influence over our soul (mind, will and emotions). And what oppresses a Christian is when they have given the enemy a foothold within them. This will oppress your spirit and grieve the Holy Spirit of God.

I see demon oppression as thoughts hitting us. Most times demons do nothing. The devil has got his rubbish in all the media. We are also quite capbable of rebellion without any demonic influence whatsoever. The ability to rebel is an option to everyone with free will. God only used the devil to speed things up in the garden.

What is so hard to understand? Can a Christian have a demon? Why he can have whatever he invites into his life. Simple. No force field, no patriot missiles. If you open yourself up to the powers of darkness, they will not decline your invitation because you are born-again. The ark of God did not keep the surrounding wicked nations from constantly trying to invade Israel and build strongholds within them now, did it?

Nations harbouring the arc of the covenant are not automatically children of God are they? A Christian may want a demon. But God the Father knows best and will simply not let a demon in. Heck a demon will run from your request!!!! You will need to completely remove Jesus first!

I am rather shocked that 44% say Yes to the vote . I think many see having evil thoughts / mindset as possession. Here in Africa, we are not confused.

1 Cor 10:21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of demons: you cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of demons.

 

[Rex]

The remedy threw out scripture for those that are in or seeking Christ is always, resist and he will flee. Draw close to God and he will draw close to you.
The remedy is the same, threw trials temptations from the devil himself the remedy is always the same.

My point all along has been there is no biblical evidence to support deliverance from demons for believers.

Jesus suffered yet he had done no wrong, put to death in fact. When he was tempted he resisted and drew close to God, he quoted scripture.
1 Peter 2:19-23 - Jesus is an example of one who committed no sin at all, yet He was persecuted and killed by wicked men. So we may follow His example and suffer, not for our faults, but when we do good.
John 15:18-20 - The treatment Jesus received should warn us of the treatment we can expect. The world hated Him and persecuted Him, and it will do the same to His servants.

Christians suffer for several different reasons but demons dwelling with-in them is not one of them found in scripture

Here is a biblical outline of God helps with your troubles no where is deliverance from demons dwelling in Christians found or described as a problem or a solution.
http://www.gospelway.com/christianlife/help_for_troubles.php
God Helps with Your Troubles:

Question #1: Why Do People Suffer?
Question #2: Can Suffering Have Good Results?
Question #3: What Assurance Is There That We Can Endure?
Question #4: What Blessings Will God Provide to Help Us Endure?

God Helps with Your Troubles:
Bible Solutions for Problems, Suffering, and Hardship

Everyone has troubles. We face problems, affliction, suffering, and hardship. We need strength, endurance, and patience. Why do people suffer? Are all trials the result of sin committed by the one who suffers? Why does God allow trials, worries, anxieties, and difficulties? Should we blame God and turn from Him? Can troubles and suffering actually make us better people? Is it possible to faithfully endure our difficulties? What solutions does the Bible offer to help us endure and overcome our problems, afflictions, and hardships?
Click here to listen to an audio recording of this material

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Rex,

there is no biblical evidence to support deliverance from demons for believers.

There is no biblical evidence that demons move out, just because the Holy Spirit has moved in.

 

[Axehead]

My point all along has been there is no biblical evidence to support deliverance from demons for believers.

With all due respect brother, you are just saying that YOU don't see any biblical support. Others don't see it either, but on the other hand many do see support not only in the Bible but in their experiences with other Christians.

 

[Rex]

Hi Rex,



There is no biblical evidence that demons move out, just because the Holy Spirit has moved in.

I've heard this logic before and you know from where, Marian theology is based on the premise that scripture being silent is not evidence of extra biblical teachings being untrue.

I see that in some insistences the very people that disregard a teaching based on biblical silence are so quick to pick-up the same defense in support of something they do believe in. How can this be?

There is no biblical evidence that says or suggest demons indwell Christians, we are tempted and we are told to resist.

I hope that the Catholics are reading and following this conversation so when they present their man made doctrines as truths they can direct and derail your argument by pointing to this thread as evidence that you and others practice the same .

With all due respect brother, you are just saying that YOU don't see any biblical support. Others don't see it either, but on the other hand many do see support not only in the Bible but in their experiences with other Christians.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17341-why-is-hell-eternal/page-3#entry180340

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I wonder where we have gotten this notion that every single thing we do in life has to have chapter and verse. One wonders how the patriarchs of old ever lived without the Bible. Fact of the matter is that no one had a even the Pentateuch until Mose started writing it down after the age of 80. If I hear a demon speak out of a Christian do I really need to find chapter and verse to validate what I just heard? I don't think so...although I might thumb through the word to see if their is a best way to cast it out of the poor fellow. We cannot force reality to line up with our doctrine no matter how must we believe. My first reaction is not to run for the Bible but to lay hands on them and cast it out in the name of Jesus. Christians are supposed to be able to that you know.

There is a tendency to label anything we do not understand as of the Devil. This is a dangerous business because we run the risk of calling what God is doing of the Devil. My personal experience of speaking in other tongues trumps every sermon, every book, and every opinion that it is of the Devil because I know that it is of God and a great blessing. Everyone else, who stands against this gift from my Father is simply wrong. These legions of anti-tongues people offer up "Bible proofs" galore that say what is coming out of my mouth is either gibberish or demonic. Therefore, the way they are interpreting all their scriptural proofs are simply wrong. They are deceived into thinking that the promise of the Father does not exist as He speaks through me in an unknown language. True experience in God trumps doctrine every time. Someone who speaks in other tongues or someone who casts out a demon in a christian is not at the mercy of those with scriptural theories that say those things can't happen.

What does this teach us about those who use the Bible to support wrong ideas? It teaches us that chapter and verse is not the end all and be all that people think it is. It teaches us that while scriptures don't lie those that use them can and often times do because the truth is not in them. Does this make them bad people? Not really...they want to serve God just like the rest of us.

So it is with the question of whether demons can indwell Christians. It is a moot point...because they obviously do. I have some manifest at me here on this very forum from time to time. Does it mean that those who yield to these spirits are evil or unsaved? No...it just means that demons have taken advantage of them in various ways and they are bound in certain areas of their lives. I don't want to beat them into submission with scriptures but rather just show them that they can be free. Saying that demons can take advantage of a Christian is because I want people to realize that, in the name of Jesus,they can be free and not have to struggle so much with the areas that have been troubling them for so long.

It is very difficult to deal with a problem if you don't think you have one. Really, we are in a war and it is to the death...physical and spiritual death. We are the battle ground between God and His angels and Satan and his demons. Where else do you think they would be doing battle? It is a battle for the hearts and minds of men. What is really needed is to pull off that mask of anonymity from our adversary and realize that we are afflicted from within and not only from without. People have sins they cannot break because the demons associated with these sins do want them to be free. Until they are cast out those who fight against within them such things sometimes nearly impossible to break.

It is not pleasant to think that you, as a Christian, could have unclean spirits dwelling inside of you. I understand that. However, the up side to it is that once you know what is going on you can then deal with the root causes of the sin that so easily besets you.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Rex]

To my dear Brothers Dragonfly and Axehead

I don't want to come off as being unconcerned or thinking differently about ether one of you.
I will, do and will continue to respect you both as fellow brothers I am only concerned that you continue in the truth as I'm certain you to hope and pray the same for me as well.

I see Justin has posted a long response IMO to associate himself with your testimony's
I'll not give a toehold to him nor to Catholic doctrine that is not clearly spoken of.

God bless you both and hold you as he does us all threw grace in our weakness.

Do you see where Justin is headed? A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

What does this teach us about those who use the Bible to support wrong ideas? It teaches us that chapter and verse is not the end all and be all that people think it is. It teaches us that while scriptures don't lie those that use them can and often times do because the truth is not in them. Does this make them bad people? Not really...they want to serve God just like the rest of us.

1 Cor 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.



Both your testimony's carry a great amount of influence, use it well
Lest someone come in and rob you of the truth, only to carry others away.

 

[Axehead]

This is certainly not a subject that one argues about. I never argue or debate this subject. I have posted a little bit of my limited understanding of it and may write more as the Spirit leads. I will say that the light I have received on this subject has affected my walk in a very positive way and certainly impacts the way I minister to others. I am grateful for the little bit of light that God has given me as I have seen many set free from wrong thinking and "enemies in the land".

Peace to all,
Axehead

 

[Rex]

Ecc 7:8
The end of a thing is better than its beginning;
The patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.

Hebrews 12:13
Please read the rest of the chapter

God bless you AH
It's a troubled world we live in, in all confidence I always rest assured you have and will continue to overcome until the Lord returns or you yourself rest.
But you're a shepherd an as Jesus did, we do well to over look endless conversations that only confuse and seek to tear down rather than build upon the foundation laid and spoken of by those who have rested, in which we now find with-in ourselves, being the living curators of that testimony in the flesh.

Forever your brother
Rex

 

[Axehead]

The Lord bless you too, Rex.

Isaiah 61:1-3 was fulfilled in Jesus and now He fulfills His word in and through us. May He continue to give us all light so that His Word will be fulfilled. And, may we be open to new truths that we have never known. I pray that you and all on this forum come into a new and fresh annointing of the Lord for His service. May we also keep a teachable spirit so that we may be open to correction.

Isa 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Blessings to you and everyone who participated in this thread,
Axehead