Denying the Cross: How to do it

[Behold]

Yes...that makes sense..really understanding now....thank you...

That a believer goes from faith in Christ to go to heaven .... to broken faith in self, to try to stay saved... is the bane of the Teacher, Preacher.
We see this happen to the believer.

They go from strong faith in Christ to confused "i can lose my salvation"... which means they have lost faith in Christ to KEEP THEM SAVED.

1.) Broken faith

2.) Carnal mind of the Flesh

3.) Legalism

----
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath Bewitched you, that ye should = not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the = hearing of faith? (Believing in Jesus) .

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the FLESH?....(carnal mind) (self saving)

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of FAITH?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. (not by works and not by law).

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of Faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[Nancy]

Yes. There are plenty of posts where I have refuted his false teachings with scripture and proper interpretation.

As an example please see my post # 17 in the thread "What is imputed righteousness?" No one has the right to confuse Bible terms, but you will note that Behold plays fast and loose with them. He has confused regeneration, imparted (or infused) righteousness (a false concept) and the gift of eternal life with imputed righteousness, because he simply does not understand the differences.

I have shown him that when God imputes righteousness to the believer. He DEEMS that person to be as righteous as Christ. God sees the believer clothed with the righteousness of Christ, but that is not the same as someone claiming that they do not need to deal with their present sins. Hence all the exhortations to Christians to walk in the Spirit and to crucify the flesh.

Hence the use of the terms "imputed", "reckoned" and "counted". But because Behold promotes the false doctrine of sinless perfection, he has changed the meaning of imputed to imply "imparted". But there is a huge difference. And here is the meaning of "imputed".

λογίζομαι​

Transliteration
logizomai (Key)
Pronunciation
log-id'-zom-ahee

The KJV translates Strong's G3049 in the following manner: think (9x), impute (8x), reckon (6x), count (5x), account (4x), suppose (2x), reason (1x), number (1x), miscellaneous (5x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over
   1. to take into account, to make an account of
      1. metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute
      2. a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight
   2. to number among, reckon with
   3. to reckon or account
2. to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate
3. by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer
   1. to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on
   2. to suppose, deem, judge
   3. to determine, purpose, decide

"Yes. There are plenty of posts where I have refuted his false teachings with scripture and proper interpretation."

But, you did not report those posts?
Either way, who say's that only your interpratation is correct?

And, he is not the only person on this site that believes that, btw.

You have really packed your post with some pretty deep and time-consuming research/doctrines but, I see no violation, Enoch.

 

[Behold]

Yes. There are plenty of posts where I have refuted his false teachings with scripture and proper interpretation.

You mean you have posted your theology .....and pasted some verses and said... "see there". "proved it".

Yes i know, Enoch111

Its what you do on my Thread

Nothing new.

 

[Lizbeth]

@Behold ...Brother, look at this scripture.

​

◄ Romans 8:6 ►

​

Context Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. New Living Translation So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh.....is that the old flesh nature, that’s still in our mind? We still think in the old man, even now at times, I’m in the old mindset, but, I recognise it pretty quickly...so, is it our renewing of the mind that keeps us in the right mindset with Christ?

What I might be able to contribute on this is that the Holy Spirit renews our mind to the mind of Christ......as scripture says, we have the mind of Christ. It's a matter of being in the spirit, walking in the spirit, then we have the mind of Christ.....which is the mind illuminated and renewed by the Spirit. ie, the mind of Christ is spiritual, not carnal.

 

[Enoch111]

Either way, who say's that only your interpretation is correct?

That is not "my interpretation". That is what the Bible says, and that is why the meaning of "imputed" was included. There are not a dozen interpretations for this key doctrine. All you have to do is read and study Romans 4 and then compare that with Behold trying to twist the meaning to fit his sinless perfection nonsense (to which many have objected). Indeed Hyper Grace teaching is banned on another forum to which I subscribe.

 

[Lizbeth]

Romans 8:6​

ESVFor to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
NIVThe mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
NASBFor the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
CSBNow the mindset of the flesh is death, but the mindset of the Spirit is life and peace.

@Behold ....Brother am I right in believing that the flesh is the old mindset?

That’s where the renewing of our mind needs to come into play ,so to speak.

It’s the mindset of our old nature.....?

We have that new nature in Christ, so I believe it’s the mindset..please correct me if I’m wrong...many thanks.

We have His nature and His mind because we have His Spirit. Being one with His Spirit, His mind, His nature. It's a matter of being in the Spirit, of walking in the Spirit. We grow into it and also grow in it, at least that is how it seems to me.

 

[amigo de christo]

That is not "my interpretation". That is what the Bible says, and that is why the meaning of "imputed" was included. There are not a dozen interpretations for this key doctrine. All you have to do is read and study Romans 4 and then compare that with Behold trying to twist the meaning to fit his sinless perfection nonsense (to which many have objected). Indeed Hyper Grace teaching is banned on another forum to which I subscribe.

Hyper grace aint grace . Flee all appearance of anything that contradicts the true grace of GOD
that brings salvation . Teaching us to DENY , not live in , But DENY all ungodliness , wordly lusts
and to be walking RIGHTEOUSLY , soberly and godly in this world as we await the COMING OF THE GLORIOUS KING
who will in the blink of eye , one day , come for the lambs .

 

[amigo de christo]

"Yes. There are plenty of posts where I have refuted his false teachings with scripture and proper interpretation."

But, you did not report those posts?
Either way, who say's that only your interpratation is correct?

And, he is not the only person on this site that believes that, btw.

You have really packed your post with some pretty deep and time-consuming research/doctrines but, I see no violation, Enoch.

Well , all i know is its a crime against humanity to preach this other gospel so many now love and embrace .
And worse it came from those who use HIS name . This ecuminical inclusive lie will save none .
As for me , You bet i am gonna point to the ONLY ONE who CAN . CHRIST JESUS
and you better beleive all other paths will be exposed as false on my watch . I am fully
persauded in the one true gospel of Christ Jesus .

 

[Behold]

What I might be able to contribute on this is that the Holy Spirit renews our mind to the mind of Christ...

No He does not.
As if He did, then "Christians" would not be going to a gazillion different Denominations, who all teach something DIFFERENT>

C'mon.

If we we all had the same MIND< caused by the HOLY Spriit, we'd all worship Mary, and believe water washed away our sin, or no ????


See it yet?

 

[amigo de christo]

No He does not.
As if He did, then "Christians" would not be going to a gazillion different Denominations, who all teach something DIFFERENT>

C'mon.

If we we all had the same MIND< caused by the HOLY Spriit, we'd all worship Mary, and believe water washed away our sin, or no ????


See it yet?

See this rather . You do realize not all that call themselves christains , TRULY are .
I ought to know i was once of them .

 

[Behold]

I am fully
persauded in the one true gospel of Christ Jesus .

Paul's Gospel...

"""""If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. I want you to know, brothers, that THE GOSPEL I preached is not something that man made up. ...... I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it........; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.""""""


Accept no substitute, reader.

 

[amigo de christo]

now let all that has breath praise , thank and honor the glorious LORD in all that we do and say .
Heed the SPIRIT and not the flesh . For the SPIRIT arms us with our weapons .
Which are not carnal but spiritual . Pulling down strongholds which exalt themselves against God .
Bringing even our thoughts captive to the obediance of Christ JESUS .
Thus HEED THE SPIRIT , NOT the flesh .

 

[Behold]

See this rather . You do realize not all that call themselves christains , TRULY are .
I ought to know i was once of them .

Is it possible to not understand anything about Salvation, the blood of Jesus, the Cross of Christ, Redemption, forgiveness of sin.... and only post about Mary, and works and commandments and water baptism, and losing salvation, and hell not being real...and the bible is just one big "contradiction"....and these people actually be a Christian. ????

A.) "suspect"

My hope for these is that they are only "fallen from Grace" so so far away.

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul's Gospel...

If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. I want you to know, brothers, that THE GOSPEL I preached is not something that man made up. ...... I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it........; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.


Accept no substitute, reader.

You wont see me arguing . I know paul knew truth , knew the gospel , just as peter , james , john , jude
and others .
But speaking about this , i notice paul had something in there , THAT MANY NOW DO .
Preaching a false gospel , speaking and teaching another jesus that accepts sins and calls them good .
Preaching another jesus , another love , another god . ALL TO PLEASE MAN and fill pews and get
the desired goal of all religoins to unite as one . Ya might wanna remind POPE francis about this very reminder .
I see men pleasers all over the place , in CHURCHES pard . In churches and even LEADING the peoples .
Seeker friendly was a huge example of this . MEN PLEASERS . and boy did it leaven up and destroy churches from within .
BUT I DO THANK ya for the wonderful reminder bout the gospel . PAUL PREACHED THE TRUE GOSPEL
THE TRUE CHRIST and not words to fill pews and please men . RATHER WORDS of wonderful truth
that actually DID BUILD the church up .

 

[Behold]

You wont see me arguing . I know paul knew truth , knew the gospel , just as peter , james , john , jude
and others .
But speaking about this , i notice paul had something in there , THAT MANY NOW DO .
Preaching a false gospel , speaking and teaching another jesus that accepts sins and calls them good .
Preaching another jesus , another love , another god . ALL TO PLEASE MAN and fill pews and get
the desired goal of all religoins to unite as one . Ya might wanna remind POPE francis about this very reminder .
I see men pleasers all over the place , in CHURCHES pard . In churches and even LEADING the peoples .
Seeker friendly was a huge example of this . MEN PLEASERS . and boy did it leaven up and destroy churches from within .
BUT I DO THANK ya for the wonderful reminder bout the gospel . PAUL PREACHED THE TRUE GOSPEL
THE TRUE CHRIST and not words to fill pews and please men . RATHER WORDS of wonderful truth
that actually DID BUILD the church up .

Jesus is coming back very soon.

 

[amigo de christo]

Is it possible to not understand anything about Salvation, the blood of Jesus, the Cross of Christ, Redemption, forgiveness of sin.... and only post about works and commandments and water baptism, and losing salvation, and hell not being real...and the bible is just one big "contradiction"....and these people actually be a Christian. ????

A.) "suspect"

My hope for these is that that they are only "fallen from Grace" so so far away.

HOPE . pard if one has fallen from grace , if one goes back under the law , THEY IN DEADLY , DEADLY grave danger .
LEST of course they repent and return . Truth is , when i examine these folks
I find that THEY NEVER REALLY KNEW CHRIST in the first place . The ones i talked too
who say things like OH i used to believe on him and etc , etc , EVERY TIME i asked
them what were their favorite pastors when they did once beleive , THEY SPOUT OUT A FULL LIST OF FALSE ONES .
PROVING TO ME , THEY NEVER KNEW CHRIST in the first place . And i remind them of that
Cause sometimes folks get it in their heads like its too late for them .
I always tell and remind them , SO long as you breathing IT AINT TOO LATE AT ALL .
NOW COME and LEARN CHRIST JESUS and NEVER LOOK back . NEVER look back .
Lots of folks struggle with this concept they have also blasphemed the Holy Ghost .
Again i tell all that has breath , STOP WORRYING and simply GO AFTER CHRIST with all your heart .
Get back into the bible and learn . GOD desires not the death of the wicked but rather they would REPENT .
COME TO CHRIST JESUS and YE SHALL BE SAVED . PEROID . COME ONE , COME ALL
HE has paid the price . HE has fullfilled all that was necessary . HE , HE has DONE what no man could .
For the sake of the peoples , that all who DO BELIEVE would be saved .
AND HE or she who comes to HIM , HE WILL in no wise cast out . And GET IN THOSE BIBLES .
Cause many are preaching another jesus , another gospel , AND IT WILLL NOT and CANNOT SAVE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus is coming back very soon.

Take that to the celestial bank my friend . FOR JESUS SPOKE TRUTH . And HE said what the signs would look like nigh the end .
SO did the apostels . And you know what , THIS LAMB IS SEEING THEM SIGNS FILLING UP BIG TIME .
OH YES the RETURN OF THE GLORIOUS LORD draws NIGH indeed .

 

[Nancy]

Well , all i know is its a crime against humanity to preach this other gospel so many now love and embrace .
And worse it came from those who use HIS name . This ecuminical inclusive lie will save none .
As for me , You bet i am gonna point to the ONLY ONE who CAN . CHRIST JESUS
and you better beleive all other paths will be exposed as false on my watch . I am fully
persauded in the one true gospel of Christ Jesus .

I have to wonder if you all on here are being intellectually dishonest. Where has ANYBODY even said they condone same sex unions?? Or even that it is okay to practice it in a church?
And nobody is even talking about no "all-inclusive lie" here. Remember when you very first messaged me? I used the same words that you continually use on the forum, you'd never even heard of the word Ecumenism, and you answered back that you don't bother with those "big words" and you will stick to the simple gospel? Well, Look at you now; all the "I's, Me's, Mines, and My's in your posts. Doesn't that even come to your mind when you are constantly telling people how un-saved they are, you don't know a person's heart, nor where on their walk they are.. You, and several others on here are so very presumptuous!

"CHRIST JESUS
and you better beleive all other paths will be exposed as false on my watch . I am fully
persauded in the one true gospel of Christ Jesus ."

Yes, and so am I convinced of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and others on here as well.
Don't think I haven't noticed your thinly veiled accusations towards me, very subtle...not!
And, not just out here on the forum...

Be careful Amigo, it is a violation to say somebody isn't a Christian, only God know's that persons heart.
Why do you never, on your "watch", criticize: J.W.'s, 7th Day Adventists, Mormons, and so on. I'd think they would be the very ones you would be correcting??

 

[Ritajanice]

We have His nature and His mind because we have His Spirit. Being one with His Spirit, His mind, His nature. It's a matter of being in the Spirit, of walking in the Spirit. We grow into it and also grow in it, at least that is how it seems to me.

Thank you Lizbeth, I understand it as,We have been birthed in the Spirit, by God Through the Holy Spirit, we have that new heart and Spirit within.

​

◄ Ezekiel 36:26 ►

​

Context Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. New Living Translation And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.

The renewing of our minds...that’s on us, that’s not the role of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit conforms us to the image of Christ...... I’m sure that’s what @Behold taught, correct me if I’m wrong,Brother?

Romans 8:29​

​

New International Version​

​

​

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstbornamong many brothers and sisters.



God knows beforehand, who will be conformed into the image of His Son.

Romans 12:2-3 KJV​

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


@Lizbeth ...when I came onto the forum...I went straight to your quote, Sister...I haven’t read the rest of the posts, so, @Behold may have answered the question I asked.

I haven’t time to scroll down through them yet, .the only one I read is yours and Nancy’s ..........I have a very busy day today....I will get back to the posts I “ haven’t” read much later today....,..you take care.....be back later...God Bless.

Edit to add...I don’t understand all this “ WE” business @Lizbeth ....we don’t do anything, in being conformed into the image of Christ....how would “ WE” know how to be conformed into the image of Christ?

It’s the Holy Spirit, who conforms us into the image of Christ.....I know he does through the Spirit. as we have that new heart / Spirit with in...He indwells our spirit.......I see him at work in me, making me more and more like Jesus every day.

Praise Jesus for that...he’s the only one who gets any GLORY or PRAISE...I get. ZILCH....

 

[Behold]

The renewing of our minds...that’s on us,

Yes.

Its our mind, so, it's our responsibility.