Hahaha ain't my "lie" must be God's since the scriptures, HIS scriptures, clearly teach that. Goodbye, and good riddens to you!
Define salvation. ( what is "the Gospel")
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
RCC heresy along with your "nonsense" and pride!
Go pedal it on a RCC forum where you belong
Behold
Well-Known Member
I see the 'cane' was first ......
The Bible tells us that Laughter is "Heart Medicine".
Be blessed by it.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
The final "stage" ?
Being born again isnt like having been baptized in the Holy Spirit, right? Easy, ok. So if water baptism is our display for man in the natural realm...perhaps Baptism also has an effect in the spiritual realm? Like being sealed maybe? Like a promotion from Private to Corporal? Still the bottom of the barrel but a promotion that comes with something. We just dot know what it is yet!
Behold
Well-Known Member
Yes, He wrote that nonsense.
Being born again is to be spiritually regenerated by God's Spirit.
Its the Holy Spirit, birthing our spirit, into the Spirit of God. = born .. .again.
But there is also a "baptism WITH the Spirit".
That is Acts 2:38, where Peter is given that ANOINTING to preach.
This is the "DOVE" that came down ON Jesus, and that is an "enduement of power". its an Anointing for Service.
In the OT, this same thing is..>>"and the word of the LORD came to the Prophet".
Its symbolic.
The city water supply can't seal you, spiritually.
Its the Holy Spirit who seals you.
"sealed with the Holy Spirit"
Being born again, promotes you from being a hell bound child of the devil...... to a born again Child of God who is now "seated in Heavenly places, in Christ", as "one with God".
There is an inheritance that is for "later", but that is regarding getting a new body, during the Rapture, .and them being rewarded at the "Judgement seat of Christ" for what you "have done in MY Body"... Jesus says.
Each of us, will find out what that will be...., later.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
If you had to choose between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism which would you choose?
If you chose HS baptism and did not go under the water, are you truly saved?
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Is Sanctification a part of the Salvation process? Of course it is, and we all know that it is a process which takes time. It doesn't happen instantly when you become born again and you receive a new spirit.
But your soul and flesh have not changed at all yet. That's receiving the free gift of Salvation. But it's not over yet, quite the contrary, it has begun! God planted the God seed inside of you and your heart gets changed over time. The way you think changes.
I got saved last night!
Praise the Lord!
What do I do now?
Go home and read you bible and pray, and obey what it says!
What's it say I have to do?
Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God..../KJV
You get transformed and renewed in your mind by reading His words and instructions to us...and obeying it, and praying without ceasing. When you do these things and you meditate upon the Lord and His precepts all day long, one day you wake up and go, wow I am different than I used to be. That's how it happened to me! I was the guy who always laughed when my wife cried at a movie and I'd be making jokes. Then one day I wept during a movie for the first time in my life. And I went, whoa. what is that?! And I felt it, I was changing in my heart.
The gist of it is, when we are obeying and drawing closer to God in our prayers and thru His word, we are bringing ourselves into the presence of the Lord and it is at that time that He is able to come inside of us and repair the damage to our soul and our heart.. This is the Sanctification process. This is purification. And at times not of our choosing (!) we can suddenly get promoted. And a blessing comes upon us, as in, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit! When that happens, it is memorable and there is no doubt.
But if a new Believer goes home after getting saved at church and sits on his blessed ass urance instead of drawing closer to God, and he continues living his life as he did before making his own decisions, then he is not being led by the Lord at all, is He? It is the same as walking away from the Lord and being our own lord. So since they are not drawing closer to Him, then the Lord does not draw closer to him, so how can the Lord purify you if you do not obey? He can't. We have to go knock on His door. You have not because you ask not, he who seeks will find, he who knocks, it shall be opened. He wont interfere with our free will and we either go to Him and His word or we dont. So Sanctification takes longer for some than others. It's like a promotion from Private to Corporal and you know it because the Spirit bears witness with our spirit and that will affect our heart too.
So you can graduate Earth as a Private and receive Salvation and Eternal Life. Or you can graduate as a Corporal! Some are even Master Sergeants. There's what? 3 classes of Privates? E1, E2, E3, then it's a Corporal. There's four classes of Sergeants! I dont feel like a sergeant yet, maybe a Corporal, or even a PFC? Lol. I just dont want to graduate as a E1
I was an E1 in this life, lol! Not really, the Lord has been very good to me since I stopped ignoring Him. He is the Friend that sticks closer than a Brother, and He is with you too Brother. He is inside of you and always there. You got saved ad the Holy Spirit came and indwelt us...so will we forget that our Best Friend that sticks closer than a Brother is with us? It must make the Lord feel terrible to be ignored. We can't do that.
Scripture says out of your belly shall flow rivers of waters. So there has to be flow. Don't be a Lake for they go stagnant, be a River my Friend, and let it flow. I realized that I can apply that principle to my life by, every time God Blesses me, I go and Bless someone else that needs it. Freely we have been given, so freely give. That creates flow! So it is a process Brother. Getting saved and born again isn't the end of it, it's only the beginning!
There's 7 Baptisms in Scripture, and we dont need even one of them to receive Eternal Life, that's true. But what if we could graduate Earth with all 7 Baptisms?! Because we kept knocking on His door, It's Me again!!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I wonder if deliberately walking in the rain qualifies? even diving off a boat (in faith of course) Perhaps having the hose under pressure turned onto me (or was it a babylonian who did that?)
Let me see, a tranquil dip into the hot tub probably wouldn't elicit the applause of viewers!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
So you admit that it is a process? But it's not some magical higher power that changes you instantly into a perfected faith and being, or you wouldnt be you any more!
What happened to...and She has made herself ready...????
What does that mean, anyway??
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I dunno it dont work like that. A water Baptism is by a choice that we make. All of the Baptisms after that are done by the Holy Spirit and at a time of His choosing. And for all I know the Baptism of the HS is, or is not, given to people who have not had water Baptism. The Lord decides if you even get it. Do you know anyone that was not water baptized but did receive the Baptism of the HS?
I can tell you that I was water Baptized when I was about 14 or 15? And I have ben Baptized by the HS also. But that doesnt prove anything.
I would choose the Baptism of the HS over the water baptism but as it turns out, I have had both.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
My post was intended as a 'search' and to show the disparity of water baptism that cannot wash away sins.
The LORD baptized me in the Holy Spirit around 5-7 months before i was dunked in water.
An excellent point you bring out is: "The Lord decides if you even get it"
Of course, the LORD desires that we all are Baptized in the Holy Spirit but not every christian desires it or even knows about it.
Like in Acts, there are many who can say: "we never heard of it" OR have been taught that the water baptism includes HS baptism.
Most have just been water baptized - Acts 19:1-3
And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Not this early Brother! In fact...I dunno how much I can. I dot think I took notes on that so I'd be kind of starting over with a study on it.
I know one of them is Baptism by fire which John the Baptist spoke of.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Being born again, isnt a process, its a Birth in the Spirit.
Its instant.
Then our walk of faith begins, and we are to "work out our Salvation".
This does not mean to try to keep from losing it, as heretics teach.
It means that now that you have it........you have to learn how to exist within it, according to the knowledge of God.
Most never will, and they remain a Hebrews 6:1 baby believer.
If they do go on, toward maturity .. and gain revelation, and learn some NT Doctrine that Paul teaches..... then over time, and it doesn't take a long time... the person gains enough revelation knowledge regarding the Grace of God, and the walk of faith and regarding walking in the Spirit, then they can never be corrupted by Calvinism, or any of the "ism" Cults.
The only thing that is perfected when we are born again, is that we are "made free from sin" and have become "The Righteousness of God... in Christ".
The Bride of Christ is already become "The Righteousness of God in Christ"..
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Ok. After I had some more coffee I discovered that I do have some notes! So I'll try to explain my position.
People who teach a water baptism saves one has not divided the scriptures thoroughly enough. I think I see the source of the confusion. In Acts 2:38 Peter clearly tals about being baptized in water for the remission of sins, but in Acts 16:30-33 Paul says something different! So Acts is some sort of transitional book from the old Covenant to the new Covenant. Paul doesnt say that water saves, Paul says it is by Faith in the Gospel and the blood. So it used to be in OT days that you get baptized for the remission of sins before you believe, and in the NT you het baptized with water after you believe. And I have a zillion scriptures for it all! So there's where the confusion comes from. The same book (Acts) says it is water baptism that saves and it is not water baptism that saves, but Faith! They were transitioning to the new Covenant!
7 Baptisms. Oh, now I remember. All 7 of these baptisms are not for us! Of the 7 mentioned, it looks like 3 or 4 were for Israel alone and Paul brought 3(?) to the gentiles.
1. Baptism of Israel.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1 I don’t want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters,[a] about our ancestors in the wilderness long ago. All of them were guided by a cloud that moved ahead of them, and all of them walked through the sea on dry ground.
2 In the cloud and in the sea, all of them were baptized as followers of Moses.
3 All of them ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all of them drank the same spiritual water. For they drank from the spiritual rock that traveled with them, and that rock was Christ..../NLT
For Israel, #1 In the cloud and in the sea!
2. John's Baptism.
Mark 1:4
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins...KJV
For the remission of sins! So it used to be like that. Also see John 1:19-34
3. Jesus's Baptism of Suffering on the cross. (for all?)
Matthew 20:20-23
20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedees children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.../KJV
The NLT translates this baptism as, cup of bitterness.
4. Peter's Baptism for Israel.
Acts 2:38
38 Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit....KJV
With the promise of the HS Baptism!
5. Believers Baptism! (After being saved!)
Acts 10:43-48
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days..../KJV
1 Peter 3:21
21 And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from[g] a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ..../NLT
He talking about the old water baptism compared to the new water baptism. We used to do that to wash us from our sins, but now we do it after we believe as a dislay to the world....AND to God (There it is!). And it works this way now, because of the resurrection of Christ!
6. Holy Spirit Baptism. (After being saved)
Mark 1:8
8 I baptize you with[d] water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit!”.../KJV
John 1:33
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost..../KJV
(That's Jesus. So Jesus decides if you get baptized in the HS!)
1 Corinthians 12:12-13
12 The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up one whole body. So it is with the body of Christ. 13 Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles,[e] some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit..../NLT
By one Spirit, so this is the baptism of the HS also.
Now this last one, I am not positive about it because I dont quite know if I understand it correctly?
7. Baptism by fire.
Matthew 3:10-11
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:.../KJV
Now that reads to me sort of like this is a Baptism for Unbelievers? Believers get the Holy Spirit and Unbelievers get baptised with fire in hell? Maybe, but they call it a Baptism...
That's essentially what I have. I have a few more scriptures on different one but I posted relevant ones to the discussion.
Well Brother, what do you think?
MA2444
Well-Known Member
What about Revelation 19?
Revelation 19:6-8
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints..../KJV
She was granted to wear fine linen, clean and white because of her righteousness and good works, effort, doing everything she can to seek the Lord and to know Him and obey Him and loving everyone around her by doing good deeds for them, as it were to Christ.
So if I am wrong then what exactly has she done to make herself ready?
Just your idle meaningless words as always supported by the air of your breath only. Bye
