Perhaps this is the heart of the matter.
You characterize my position as championing dead beliefs.
My position is that if we are born again, we act differently because we are different. If we have true living faith, we do works pleasing to God because that is in fact the result of living faith.
While this is true in principle...we see the majority living from the carnal mind and acting out of uncrucified flesh. Now, we could say they are not listening to those who lead them...or else...they are listening to those who coddle their flesh.
My position, as you put it, is that rebirth changes us in a way that the Israelites - prior to Christ's resurrection, were not changed. They were not saved by being sons of Abraham, but we are saved being sons of God.
As sons of Abraham, they remained in the corrupt Adamic humanity. Being born of God, we become members of His family. Without faith, being born of Abraham was not sufficient. When we come to faith, trusting in Jesus, and being born again, this is our salvation, which we then go on to "work out" as God "works in".
What you are missing here is that God raised the stakes. To whom much is given MORE is required. So there is a perfect equivalence. The Bible attests to this equivalence. As in...
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom. 11:21,22
Most people fully ignore all the warnings of the bible to pay attention to what makes them feel good about themselves. To think we are special..better than the Jews...more loved by God...or else that God gave the Jews a bad situation so He could save us in an easy-peasy way, shows a bigotted narcicism that sees themselves as a precious commodity. It is to miss entirely the purpose of the race of faith. But God's grace and His salvation are NOT meant to give us an easy ride. That's where the great delusion of the Reformation came in.
Perhaps I've misunderstood. You speak of bearing fruit by adding to our salvation in order to keep it. Did I misunderstand you?
LOL You are not understanding the race of faith. The great delusion here is that you think you already won...and can sit under a tree and watch the tortoises go by.
Read 2 Pet. Again, and again, and then one more time. Find where it says that we have received ALL we need by grace...then read where we are to
ADD to our faith...unless we are blind, of course. What are we to add...Good works that produce a return on investment to God in the form of godly character.
Where do you find the Spirit given as a "free sample", that may be later taken back? I'd like to look at that passage(s) with you.
read Romans 11. Also all the passages that talk of the "earnest" of the Spirit. In Hebrew an "aravon" is a down-payment for a product to be received WHEN THE PROPER CONDITIONS ARE MET. IOW, a full surrender into the crucified walk. The Israelites were saved into the wilderness, but most did not PLEASE God.
So then modern believers think pleasing themselves is the only standard whereas pleasing God is the standard. And God is hard to please. Too many will find that out shortly on judgment day to their horror.
In your thinking, having been reborn, does someone then become "unreborn"? Do you know what I'm asking you? Returned to their former state?
What happened to the talent of the wicked servant? It was taken back. We are given grace to produce WORKS...eternal fruit that gives glory to God. We will all be judged by our WORKS. (I wish that people could be honest about what is actually written in the Bible)
And no, not the works of the law (Judaism)
