Could Russia be a bear?

[FaithWillDo]

Jesus physical birth is mentioned in Scripture.

Why is Jerusalem's physical destruction not mentioned in Scripture?

Dear covenantee,
Since the physical destruction of Jerusalem is not mentioned in scripture (either prophesied beforehand or in a historical sense), it didn't suit the purposes of God to include it. The opposite is true for the birth of Christ.

I wanted to include the following comments below in my previous post on the first coming of Christ but I didn't have time to add them to my post. I will do so now.

As I said earlier, the first coming of Christ was "in the flesh" and was under the Old Covenant. It was a visible, physical and outward event that carnal mankind could witness and understand (belief is another matter).

Under the New Covenant, the phrase "in the flesh" means something completely different.

Since the Early Rain of the Spirit does not heal a new believer's spiritual blindness, scripture says that Christ will appear to the new believer "in the flesh". This means that because the new believer remains carnally minded & spiritually blind after Christ first comes to them with the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will only be able to see (understand) Christ in a carnal way. In other words, the new believer will try to understand the spiritual teachings of Christ (God's Word) in a literal, outward and physical way rather than in a spiritual way. The spiritual way recognizes that Christ's words are spirit (John 6:63) and that those words carry a different meaning than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). To understand those spirit words, their definitions must be spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit and by comparing the spirit words with how those same words are used elsewhere in scripture. It is a mistake to look out in the world for a spirit word's meaning. For example, the spirit word "bear" represents Satan and does not represent Russia as some believe.

Below is another example using the spirit word "sword":

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword?

If His words were carnal, then that would be what Christ is teaching here. But Christ's words are not carnal, they are spiritual.

Also, if we understand this verse in a carnal way, Christ's statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

So, is Christ mistaken in this scripture or is Christ speaking in "another language" (Isa 28:9-12) and He means something entirely different?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word "sword" to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual word represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is very easy to understand that the spirit word sword represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the sword (unconverted babes, Early Rain only), will perish by the sword (spiritual death of the child of the devil). This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which occurs when the Word of God (Christ/Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and the Baptism of Fire (judgment).

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), and with Fire (judgment of the Day of the Lord).

The baptism of the Holy Spirit, followed by judgment is what Christ does "within" a "babe" to convert them.

This verse applies to conversion:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the sword and then they died by the SWORD.

The second coming of Christ is another good example of carnal understanding vs. spiritual understanding.

A carnal understanding of the second coming of Christ "sees" it as a physical & outward one time event which occurs where human eyes can see Him.

A spiritual understanding of the second coming of Christ sees it as a spiritual reoccurring event that happens "within" the Elect. Human eyes will not be able to witness it.

Now back to the spiritual meaning of "in the flesh".

John uses it in the scripture below:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Like Christ, John teaches in Christ's spiritual language. In this verse, John is not talking about when Christ literally came in the flesh under the Old Covenant and went to the cross.

John is teaching that an apostate believer will deny the first coming of Christ when Christ came to them and gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is the Early Rain of the Spirit that caused Christ to appear to them in a carnal way (in the flesh). But an apostate believer won't accept this truth. They believe that when Christ first appeared to them, He did so as He really is and that He baptized them with the Spirit. They don't realize that they are still carnally minded, spiritually blind, unconverted and under Satan's deceptions.

And like the Pharisees, they will say that they can "see" (spiritually) when they cannot:

John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

This verse also applies to them:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And this scripture, too:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm (mixing works with faith/trying to serve two masters), and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich (treasure in heaven), and increased with goods (knowledge of God), and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
Since the physical destruction of Jerusalem is not mentioned in scripture (either prophesied beforehand or in a historical sense), it didn't suit the purposes of God to include it. The opposite is true for the birth of Christ.

I wanted to include the following comments below in my previous post on the first coming of Christ but I didn't have time to add them to my post. I will do so now.

As I said earlier, the first coming of Christ was "in the flesh" and was under the Old Covenant. It was a visible, physical and outward event that carnal mankind could witness and understand (belief is another matter).

Under the New Covenant, the phrase "in the flesh" means something completely different.

Since the Early Rain of the Spirit does not heal a new believer's spiritual blindness, scripture says that Christ will appear to the new believer "in the flesh". This means that because the new believer remains carnally minded & spiritually blind after Christ first comes to them with the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will only be able to see (understand) Christ in a carnal way. In other words, the new believer will try to understand the spiritual teachings of Christ (God's Word) in a literal, outward and physical way rather than in a spiritual way. The spiritual way recognizes that Christ's words are spirit (John 6:63) and that those words carry a different meaning than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). To understand those spirit words, their definitions must be spiritually discerned by the Holy Spirit and by comparing the spirit words with how those same words are used elsewhere in scripture. It is a mistake to look out in the world for a spirit word's meaning. For example, the spirit word "bear" represents Satan and does not represent Russia as some believe.

Below is another example using the spirit word "sword":

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword?

If His words were carnal, then that would be what Christ is teaching here. But Christ's words are not carnal, they are spiritual.

Also, if we understand this verse in a carnal way, Christ's statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

So, is Christ mistaken in this scripture or is Christ speaking in "another language" (Isa 28:9-12) and He means something entirely different?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word "sword" to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual word represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is very easy to understand that the spirit word sword represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the sword (unconverted babes, Early Rain only), will perish by the sword (spiritual death of the child of the devil). This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which occurs when the Word of God (Christ/Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) and the Baptism of Fire (judgment).

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), and with Fire (judgment of the Day of the Lord).

The baptism of the Holy Spirit, followed by judgment is what Christ does "within" a "babe" to convert them.

This verse applies to conversion:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

The conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the sword and then they died by the SWORD.

The second coming of Christ is another good example of carnal understanding vs. spiritual understanding.

A carnal understanding of the second coming of Christ "sees" it as a physical & outward one time event which occurs where human eyes can see Him.

A spiritual understanding of the second coming of Christ sees it as a spiritual reoccurring event that happens "within" the Elect. Human eyes will not be able to witness it.

Now back to the spiritual meaning of "in the flesh".

John uses it in the scripture below:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Like Christ, John teaches in Christ's spiritual language. In this verse, John is not talking about when Christ literally came in the flesh under the Old Covenant and went to the cross.

John is teaching that an apostate believer will deny the first coming of Christ when Christ came to them and gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is the Early Rain of the Spirit that caused Christ to appear to them in a carnal way (in the flesh). But an apostate believer won't accept this truth. They believe that when Christ first appeared to them, He did so as He really is and that He baptized them with the Spirit. They don't realize that they are still carnally minded, spiritually blind, unconverted and under Satan's deceptions.

And like the Pharisees, they will say that they can "see" (spiritually) when they cannot:

John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

This verse also applies to them:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And this scripture, too:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm (mixing works with faith/trying to serve two masters), and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich (treasure in heaven), and increased with goods (knowledge of God), and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Joe

Scripture records a plethora of physical entities and events.

The physical destruction of physical Jerusalem is among them.

It's that simple.

Were the disciples physical people? Yes or no.

Is the disciples' physical meeting on the physical Day of Pentecost recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the disciples' physically speaking in physical tongues on that day recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter's physical address to those physically gathered on that day recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter and John physically going thereafter to the physical temple recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the physical city of Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Saul physically going to physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter physically coming to physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the physical destruction of physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Jesus physical birth is mentioned in Scripture.

Why is Jerusalem's physical destruction not mentioned in Scripture?

Dear covenantee,

I will try to make my answer more clear to you than I did in my first post.

The events described and/or prophesied to be fulfilled under the Old Covenant are physical outward events - like the birth of Christ and His ministry that led Him to the cross. But once the Old Covenant ended and the New Covenant began, all the prophesied events left to be fulfilled are now being spiritually fulfilled within an individual person. There are no physical outward events left to be fulfilled because we are now under the New Covenant and that is why the destruction of physical Jerusalem in 70 A.D is not mentioned in scripture.

Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is one of the most difficult prophecies to understand because portions of that prophecy are fulfilled under both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant (as I described in my last post). The first 69 1/2 weeks of years are fulfilled physically under the Old Covenant and ended at the cross. After the change to the New Covenant, the 3 1/2 years which remained of the prophecy are now being fulfilled spiritually within a person. Unless a person can make that transition from a physical way of understanding to a spiritual way of understanding, Daniel's prophecy is going to remain veiled to them.

One other point; many of the physical events that are recorded in the OT are "types" for what will happen spiritually under the New Covenant.

For example: Noah and the flood is a type for the Elect's spiritual conversion. The story of Lot and Sodom & Gomorrah is also a type for spiritual conversion. Because they are types for conversion, Christ mentioned those physical historical events in His end-time teachings. As I have said, the end-time prophecies are teaching the pathway to salvation. The "sign of the times" are spiritual events that happen within a believer which led up to and include the second coming of Christ when He converts the Elect person. Those events do not happen out in the world as carnally minded babes teach. Those babes don't see the change that is needed when transitioning from the teachings of the Old Covenant to the teachings of the New Covenant. To make this change, they need Christ to give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit and to heal their spiritual blindness. After Christ heals a person's spiritual blindness, they will then start rightly dividing the Word between the Old (physical) and the New (spiritual) covenants.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Scripture records a plethora of physical entities and events.

The physical destruction of physical Jerusalem is among them.

It's that simple.

Were the disciples physical people? Yes or no.

Is the disciples' physical meeting on the physical Day of Pentecost recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the disciples' physically speaking in physical tongues on that day recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter's physical address to those physically gathered on that day recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter and John physically going thereafter to the physical temple recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the physical city of Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Saul physically going to physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter physically coming to physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the physical destruction of physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Dear covenantee,
I will answer this post a little later today when I have more time.
Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Scripture records a plethora of physical entities and events.

The physical destruction of physical Jerusalem is among them.

It's that simple.

Were the disciples physical people? Yes or no.

Is the disciples' physical meeting on the physical Day of Pentecost recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the disciples' physically speaking in physical tongues on that day recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter's physical address to those physically gathered on that day recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter and John physically going thereafter to the physical temple recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the physical city of Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Saul physically going to physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is Peter physically coming to physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Is the physical destruction of physical Jerusalem recorded in Scripture? Yes or no.

Dear covenantee,

I have a few minutes now to respond to your last post.

The physical destruction of Jerusalem is not mentioned in scripture. If you believe it is, show me the scripture.

The scripture in Luke 21:20 which you previously mentioned is a prophecy on the spiritual destruction of earthly Jerusalem within an Elect believer while they are going through spiritual process of conversion. There are no prophecies for the destruction of physical Jerusalem because all prophecy fulfilled under the New Covenant is spiritually fulfilled and not physically fulfilled. I suppose that John could have mentioned it in one of his letters because John wrote his letters after Jerusalem was physically destroyed. But if John would have mentioned it, it would not have been a fulfillment of prophecy - it would have been a physical type which would represent the spiritual destruction of earthly Jerusalem within an Elect believer. But because Christ chose not to use the physical destruction of Jerusalem as a type in one of John's letters, it was not mentioned.

As for your questions, what I have being saying is that the teachings of the NT are spiritual teachings and the prophecies of the New Covenant are spiritually fulfilled. None of the prophecies are physically fulfilled under the New Covenant.

And of course, there are many physical happenings recorded in the NT. I have never said differently. The book of Acts is full of them. But those physical happenings are not "teachings" and they are not the fulfillment of prophecy. However, many of those physical events are types which teach spiritual truths.

Consider this physical type recorded below:

Acts 16:26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

This event is a type for what happens to an Elect believer when they are being converted. The great earthquake is a symbol that represents a spiritual event is taking place. The prison represents sin which holds mankind in bondage. When the doors of the prison are opened, it represents that the person has been converted and is no longer held captive by sin.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

You said:
You're ignoring the Luke 21:20 identification of the abomination of desolation; and you're ignoring the historic flight of the Judaean Christians in direct response to Jesus' warning.

I am not ignoring Luke 21:20. Like Mat 24:15, that scripture is a spiritual teaching of Christ under the New Covenant and is presented in Christ's "another language" (Isa 28:9-12) which uses "spirit" words (John 6:63). Spirit words are defined by "comparing spiritual things with spiritual" (1Cor 2:13). In addition, spirit words should be applied "within" a person and not out in the world as you are doing. Until a believer can understand the spiritual language of Christ and apply its teachings correctly, they are not going to be able to understand the truth of Christ's New Covenant teachings. Christ (God's Word) will remain veiled to them.

Here is the scripture in Luke:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Luke 21:20-21 is not a teaching on the Abomination of Desolation. It is a teaching on the judgment (Day of the Lord) that follows the Latter Rain of the Spirit. It is the same judgment that is described in Mat 24:37-41 and in Rev 19:11-21.

You still haven't addressed the flight of the Judaean Christians.

Obviously you believe that they were wrong to flee, because you believe that Jesus' warning was inapplicable to them.

Thankfully, they weren't hyperspiritualites. They recognized Jesus' physical warning of the physical abomination of desolation, heeded that warning, physically fled, and preserved their lives to carry on the early Christian Church, which you claim was apostate.

Your claim is illegitimate.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You still haven't addressed the flight of the Judaean Christians.

Obviously you believe that they were wrong to flee, because you believe thatJesus' warning was inapplicable to them.

Thankfully, they weren't hyperspiritualites. They recognized Jesus' physical warning of the physical abomination of desolation, heeded that warning, physically fled, and preserved their lives to carry on the early Christian Church, which you claim was apostate.

Dear covenantee,

You are still understanding Christ's end-time prophecies in a carnal way. Christ was not referring to the physical destruction of Jerusalem. He was referring to the destruction of spiritual Jerusalem (the one below) within a believer as they are being converted.

Here is the scripture that you are quoting:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child (the freewoman who is about to birth a child of God), and to them that give suck (the bondwoman who is the child of the devil), in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land (within the believer), and wrath upon this people (children of the devil). 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword (God's Word), and shall be led away captive into all nations (beliefs of the child of the devil will be held captive by the truth): and Jerusalem (carnal spirit of the believer) shall be trodden down of the Gentiles (works/unfaithful), until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (until conversion is complete).

Note: Both the Freewoman and the Bondwoman are contained within one unconverted believer.

Spiritual Jerusalem (that great city) is synonymous with Sodom and the Great Harlot. And like Lot, the Elect believer will not be harmed when it is destroyed from within them. For that reason, Christ says that when you see Jerusalem surrounded with armies (a spiritual sign of the times), then flee to the mountains like Lot did because judgement is about to fall. The "days of vengeance" is referring to the judgment that destroys all the things within a believer that has caused them to sin and spiritually die. One of those things which is destroyed is earthly Jerusalem. Earthly Jerusalem is also synonymous with the spirit word "Great Harlot". Her destruction is described in Rev 18. Notice that the same warning to come out of her is repeated there:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

As I said, there are no scriptures which teach about the destruction of physical Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,

You are still understanding Christ's end-time prophecies in a carnal way. Christ was not referring to the physical destruction of Jerusalem. He was referring to the destruction of spiritual Jerusalem (the one below) within a believer as they are being converted.

Here is the scripture that you are quoting:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child (the freewoman who is about to birth a child of God), and to them that give suck (the bondwoman who is nursing babes/unconverted believers), in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land (within the believer), and wrath upon this people (children of the devil). 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword (God's Word), and shall be led away captive into all nations (beliefs of the child of the devil will be held captive by the truth): and Jerusalem (carnal spirit of the believer) shall be trodden down of the Gentiles (works/unfaithful), until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (until conversion is complete).

Spiritual Jerusalem (that great city) is synonymous with Sodom and the Great Harlot. And like Lot, the Elect believer will not be harmed when it is destroyed from within them. For that reason, Christ says that when you see Jerusalem surrounded with armies (a spiritual sign of the times), then flee to the mountains like Lot did because judgement is about to fall. The "days of vengeance" is referring to the judgment that destroys all the things within a believer that has caused them to sin and spiritually die. One of those things which is destroyed is earthly Jerusalem. Earthly Jerusalem is also synonymous with the spirit word "Great Harlot". Her destruction is described in Rev 18. Notice that the same warning to come out of her is repeated there:

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

As I said, there are no scriptures which teach about the destruction of physical Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Joe

Why are you avoiding the issue?

The Judaean Christians fled in direct response to Jesus' warning.

Were they wrong to flee?

 

[FaithWillDo]

Why are you avoiding the issue?

The Judaean Christians fled in direct response to Jesus' warning.

Were they wrong to flee?

Dear covenantee,
If the Judaean Christians fled as a direct response to Jesus' warning, they were misunderstanding His spiritual teaching in Luke 21:20. Also, how could they flee if the Roman army had already surrounded Jerusalem as the verse says? After all, the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem is the "sign" that Christ tells them to watch for. And if they could still flee after the city was surrounded, why does Christ say to flee to the mountains as Lot did? Is there something special about the mountains? And why does Christ reference pregnant women and nursing mothers? Are not children and others going to suffer as well?

So what makes you believe that Christians in Jerusalem (if there were any left at that time because of the Jewish persecution) fled after the Roman armies arrived? Is there any first hand historical records that support your claim or is it just speculation on your part?

The teachings of Christ in Luke, Matthew and Mark on the "end-times" are His spiritual teachings on the events that led up to an Elect believer's conversion. Christ was sent to save the world by His Father. Why would Christ concern Himself with outward world events which are not related to His spiritual work of saving the Elect?

Christ also said (Mat 10:28) to not fear those who can kill the body (like the Roman army), so why the sudden change for the believers in Jerusalem in 70 A.D.? What about the other believers who have lived throughout this age? Are they less important than the Jerusalem believers in 70 A.D.?

None of the NT writers were concerned with what was happening in the world outside of the church so why would Christ be? John could have mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem and the fate of the believers there in at least one of his letters, but He didn't. Wasn't that event important to John since it was the fulfillment prophecy as you believe?

Your carnal understanding of end-time prophecy makes no sense in light of what scripture actually teaches and it is contradicted by many scriptures. You should be praying for the Baptism of the Spirit and for eyes that can see spiritually. Only with the gift of the Spirit will a person be able to understand the truth of Christ's spiritual teachings. No amount of supposed free will ability or personal intelligence can help a person see. Until Christ gives the gift of the Spirit to a person, the spiritual teachings of Christ are going to remain veiled from their understanding.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
If the Judaean Christians fled as a direct response to Jesus' warning, they were misunderstanding His spiritual teaching in Luke 21:20. Also, how could they flee if the Roman army had already surrounded Jerusalem as the verse says? After all, the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem is the "sign" that Christ tells them to watch for. And if they could still flee after the city was surrounded, why does Christ say to flee to the mountains as Lot did? Is there something special about the mountains? And why does Christ reference pregnant women and nursing mothers? Are not children and others going to suffer as well?

So what makes you believe that Christians in Jerusalem (if there were any left at that time because of the Jewish persecution) fled after the Roman armies arrived? Is there any first hand historical records that support your claim or is it just speculation on your part?

The teachings of Christ in Luke, Matthew and Mark on the "end-times" are His spiritual teachings on the events that led up to an Elect believer's conversion. Christ was sent to save the world by His Father. Why would Christ concern Himself with outward world events which are not related to His spiritual work of saving the Elect?

Christ also said (Mat 10:28) to not fear those who can kill the body (like the Roman army), so why the sudden change for the believers in Jerusalem in 70 A.D.? What about the other believers who have lived throughout this age? Are they less important than the Jerusalem believers in 70 A.D.?

None of the NT writers were concerned with what was happening in the world outside of the church so why would Christ be? John could have mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem and the fate of the believers there in at least one of his letters, but He didn't. Wasn't that event important to John since it was the fulfillment prophecy as you believe?

Your carnal understanding of end-time prophecy makes no sense in light of what scripture actually teaches and it is contradicted by many scriptures. You should be praying for the Baptism of the Spirit and for eyes that can see spiritually. Only with the gift of the Spirit will a person be able to understand the truth of Christ's spiritual teachings. No amount of supposed free will ability or personal intelligence can help a person see. Until Christ gives the gift of the Spirit to a person, the spiritual teachings of Christ are going to remain veiled from their understanding.

Joe

So you think you're smarter than the Judaean Christians.

We have a true Christian Church today because of their wisdom and discernment.

Thank God they didn't listen to you.

 

[FaithWillDo]

So you think you're smarter than the Judaean Christians.

We have a true Christian Church today because of their wisdom and discernment.

Thank God they didn't listen to you.

Dear covenantee,
I am not smarter I'm sure, but I am converted and can see spiritually.

Also, there is no evidence that the Judean Christians were even in Jerusalem when the Roman armies surrounded it. Your beliefs do not have a foundation of truth.

Also, you do not believe Paul when He said the apostasy was going to devour the churches he started. And you don't believe the many teachings of Christ that describe the pathway to salvation which include the time all Elect believers will spend in the apostate church. Since the 1st century, there have not been any organized churches in this world that have not been apostate. They all mix works with faith which is the only sin that leads to death. The true church only exists outside of the apostate church and it is invisible to this world.

Until Christ heals your spiritual blindness, the scriptures that I have presented to you are going to remain veiled by your carnality. There is nothing I can do at this time to help you understand. You must keep waiting on the Lord to act in your life as all Elect believers must do. This is the patience of the saints.

I'm going to move onto another thread unless another member posts to me.

Joe

 

[covenantee]

Dear covenantee,
I am not smarter I'm sure, but I am converted and can see spiritually.

Also, there is no evidence that the Judean Christians were even in Jerusalem when the Roman armies surrounded it. Your beliefs do not have a foundation of truth.

Also, you do not believe Paul when He said the apostasy was going to devour the churches he started. And you don't believe the many teachings of Christ that describe the pathway to salvation which include the time all Elect believers will spend in the apostate church. Since the 1st century, there have not been any organized churches in this world that have not been apostate. They all mix works with faith which is the only sin that leads to death. The true church only exists outside of the apostate church and it is invisible to this world.

Until Christ heals your spiritual blindness, the scriptures that I have presented to you are going to remain veiled by your carnality. There is nothing I can do at this time to help you understand. You must keep waiting on the Lord to act in your life as all Elect believers must do. This is the patience of the saints.

I'm going to move onto another thread unless another member posts to me.

Joe

I'm fully confident that the Judaean Christians were converted and could see spiritually immeasurably better than you.

You are both spiritually and physically blind until you can understand both the spiritual and physical realities associated with the physical destruction of Jerusalem.

They do not include your artificial illusory hyperspiritualized hermeneutic.

 

[Timtofly]

Ukraine.

Putin wants Ukraine. Why would he light it up as a radioactive wasteland. He may as well nuke Russia while he is at it, no?

 

[tailgator]

Putin wants Ukraine. Why would he light it up as a radioactive wasteland. He may as well nuke Russia while he is at it, no?

If Ukraine begins bombing Moscow or certain Russian assets ,I fully expect Putin will use his nukes in self defence

What do you think he would do,surrender?

 

[Timtofly]

If Ukraine begins bombing Moscow or certain Russian assets ,I fully expect Putin will use his nukes in self defence

What do you think he would do,surrender?

You mean self destruction?

Any nation who launches a nuke, will get one in return. Putin will defend himself, but I doubt it will be with a nuclear response. I doubt that is all he has left. If he cannot keep Russia from being controlled by another leader or nation, destroying his own country is an option.

 

[tailgator]

You mean self destruction?

Any nation who launches a nuke, will get one in return. Putin will defend himself, but I doubt it will be with a nuclear response. I doubt that is all he has left. If he cannot keep Russia from being controlled by another leader or nation, destroying his own country is an option.

And who exactly do you believe would nuke Russia if Russia nukes Ukraine?

Joe Biden?
You believe Joe Biden would sacrifice the US for Ukraine?

 

[amigo de christo]

In Chapter 2 the first kingdom / beast is Babylon. In Chapter 8, the 3rd kingdom is identified as Greece. Who conquered Babylon and who did Greece conquer?

medes and the persians . yep .

 

[amigo de christo]

Putin never started this War in fact !

Putins hand was forced to enter into this idiot War ! by Joe Biden that's clear !

The War is truly about Oil and Gas that has been found in regards Joe Biden and Co ! if their was not Oil or Gas found,then the War would not of been pushed full on like it has been so as to escalate and only escalate escalate is the Joe Biden and Co and nothing but, because the Co want the money.
Zelensky will tempt Trump with a huge % of the Pie ? if he wins office ! so that they are all on board. for sure.

But Putin has little Nuclear bombs that can wipe out say 2 to 5KM maybe 1km just to stop the enemy from attacking Russia. so they can pop such little things about the place.
Sadly it has come to this but Russia is forced to use such, because the Governments in the West are War criminals ? for the West has no right to push for this War at all in fact.

The people in East Ukraine had every right to Vote ! but the Satanic West and UN rejected their rights to Vote in fact !
For they knew if the people in East Ukraine boarders had the right to Vote on the subject, then Russia would clearly of won 80% of the Vote !
If the right to Vote was upheld everyone would of been living in peace in fact and happy ! and Homes and lives not destroyed.

They claim 45,000 Ukraine people are dead and 70,000 Russians are dead ? due to Joe Biden and Co hell bent escalation for killing and they do not give a rats arse at all, clearly that is a non issue ! not to mention Nazis in Ukraine is another non issue as well ! Joe Biden and Co are clearly all for the Nazis ! they are inpowering such people ! not to mention they do the same with Islamic idiots so as to attack Israel and that's a fact !
Joe Biden clearly outrigh gave Islam all them Weapons from Afghanistan to attack Israel in fact ! No one could be so stupid ! Joe Biden is clearly as guilty as Hell ! and the Satanic Socialist in the West and within Israel have let this Terrorist attack on Israel kick off and not to mention feed it all !
Why well it's all about undermining the Right Wing Government of Israel in fact ! that's what it truly is all about ! for the Right Wing understand that you can not have a two State solution ! Such is insanity that only idiot Socialist would claim will work ! it will not work at all, for Israel will fail if it did !
I am talking about worthy Israel in regards to God ? Socialist Israel is not worthy of God at all in fact ! and that's what the Socialist want ! for they can get along with Islamic trash, because they are trash ! it's the same ends ? such is dictatorship over the People in fact ! that's their Key ends, of Satanic Socialist State of Israel and Islam ! for both are Godless whores !

So you see in regards to the Socialist, the ends justfy the means in fact ! that's their mantra in fact ! such is clearly typical of Nazis and Communist for such is the core of their religion !
So you see this warfare going on 24/7 by any means that they can force people ? It's the power of being Political Correct ? because the fact is that such do not have any regard for the Truth in fact, but they call truth relitive etc ? so they come up with this rubbish of Political Correct ? such is the Key to Nazi Power in fact and Communism ! it's their Mantra ! for with out this Key they have no power at all, for they could not drive in the wedge, so as to undermine freedom of speech in fact ! for they truly have no values in fact regarding ones Salvation, so that's why they Kill ! Just as we see in the Bible that Jesus was attacked by such who loved the darkness, so they work so as to shut out any light, for they feer being exposed, so they work to shut down all such ! their craft is very good at fooling such people. so you see why they promote sexual depravity and force such of children and the lowest comon denominator becomes the standard set for all ! for such as they clearly are Deranged filth themselves ! The majority do not know what they do because they are not worthy of God in fact, so they do not stand up to such wolves !

Taking on Russia is a totaly childish move, you can not Win ! whoever thinks of taking on Russia must be devoid of common sense or down right stupid !
Remember the fear of Communist Russia back in the 60's etc it was a Big No no ! it was not worth it ? but now it's not a problem ? so the Media and Governments claim ? but Russia had nothing in regards Nuclear Power tec that they have nowadays in fact !
Russia can wipe the USA of the face of the earth totaly and West Europe easy as !

In Australia we have a little boy for PM and he is a total moron, for he has provoked Russia like a stupid 5yo brat would do ! you need to keep lines of communication in regards such open ?

Remember Trump in Office and Putin wanted to get him on the phone ? and the idiots did not inform Trump that Putin wanted to get him on the phone ?
When Trump found out he was totaly pissed off that they did not bother to inform him, why was that ? well Trump said this dude is in charge of the 2ed most powerful Nation on earth ! and idiots dismiss such !

What if Putin rang an had an issue with some military issue taking place ? and the USA could of been launched on ? and here we had the minders who had no regard ! now that is dumb and as stupid as you get in fact ! outright ignorance and lack of regard Peoples lives in fact !
That's how Wars can kick off big time in fact !
You do not cut communication lines to such unless one is a 5yo in the brain box, such a one chould be kicked out of office by the GG in fact, for they are not representing the people who voted them in. But Socialist are not bothered with such, because they live in a fantacy land. Peoples lives could be on the line and what do we have, a stupid idiot Slob at the wheel !

The Media should be exposing all such, in the intrest of the People, but they clearly have no true regards the People in fact.

Looks like ol reggie might be on to something . The west is not LILY white folks and the media
has long tanked too .

 

[amigo de christo]

welcome to planet farm folks . try reading animal farm .
They got us right where they want us . My advice , HOPE IN GOD and trust not in man .

 

[amigo de christo]

You did not answer the question. Who conquered Babylon and who did Greece conquer? There is only one answer... not understanding how in the Book of Daniel he can identify the kingdoms in no less than 3 chapters.....

Exactly . spot on right my friend . todays end time thrillers might sell and make money
but sure dont know much about what they say .
The BIBLE makes it real clear my friend . it sure does .