Could Russia be a bear?

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tailgator

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Daniel 7
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.



I've heard differing interpretations of the above verse and I've never come to any conclusion about it.Its never really concerned me very much.But I have always entertained the idea that it could possibly be Russia with three former Soviet states representing the ribs between its teeth.Perhaps Georgia,Belarus and Ukraine.I see where Zelensky met with Biden Thursday asking to be able to use long range weapons in Russia.Great Britain wants Ukraine to be able to use storm shadow missiles in Russia and France appears to want to give the go ahead.Biden would need to lift his veto on using long range weapons on Russian territory.Now im reading where many in Washington want to give Ukraine permission to use these weapons in Russia.
What are these people thinking?
Russia has almost 6000 nuclear warheads it can use in its war against Ukraine if it is provoked to do so.

I've never been convinced who the bear in Daniel 7 is,but if Russia ends up using nukes in Ukraine then I will have been convinced the bear has devoured much flesh.

I recon we just have to watch as this thing plays out.




The report from the Helsinki Commission, which was obtained by The Hill ahead of publication, argues that Washington must reframe its thinking in how it approaches Russia, as it has with China over the past few years, and allocate resources accordingly.

A priority focus of the report’s strategy is to ensure Ukraine’s victory in its defensive war against Russia, calling for “massive” military and humanitarian assistance for Kyiv and allowing Ukraine’s armed forces to strike deep into Russia with U.S. provided weapons.





I believe these people have lost their minds.
 

tailgator

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LONDON, Sept 27 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin has drawn a "red line" for the United States and its allies by signalling that Moscow will consider responding with nuclear weapons if they allow Ukraine to strike deep inside Russia with long-range Western missiles.




I really don't think he is bluffing this time around.
I think he is ready to stand his ground.

If Putin does use nukes after a Ukraine assault on Russia using US or British long range missiles.I don't believe anyone is going to do anything about it.
 

CTK

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Daniel 7
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.



I've heard differing interpretations of the above verse and I've never come to any conclusion about it.Its never really concerned me very much.But I have always entertained the idea that it could possibly be Russia with three former Soviet states representing the ribs between its teeth.Perhaps Georgia,Belarus and Ukraine.I see where Zelensky met with Biden Thursday asking to be able to use long range weapons in Russia.Great Britain wants Ukraine to be able to use storm shadow missiles in Russia and France appears to want to give the go ahead.Biden would need to lift his veto on using long range weapons on Russian territory.Now im reading where many in Washington want to give Ukraine permission to use these weapons in Russia.
What are these people thinking?
Russia has almost 6000 nuclear warheads it can use in its war against Ukraine if it is provoked to do so.

I've never been convinced who the bear in Daniel 7 is,but if Russia ends up using nukes in Ukraine then I will have been convinced the bear has devoured much flesh.

I recon we just have to watch as this thing plays out.




The report from the Helsinki Commission, which was obtained by The Hill ahead of publication, argues that Washington must reframe its thinking in how it approaches Russia, as it has with China over the past few years, and allocate resources accordingly.

A priority focus of the report’s strategy is to ensure Ukraine’s victory in its defensive war against Russia, calling for “massive” military and humanitarian assistance for Kyiv and allowing Ukraine’s armed forces to strike deep into Russia with U.S. provided weapons.





I believe these people have lost their minds.
In Chapter 2 the first kingdom / beast is Babylon. In Chapter 8, the 3rd kingdom is identified as Greece. Who conquered Babylon and who did Greece conquer?
 
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tailgator

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In Chapter 2 the first kingdom / beast is Babylon. In Chapter 8, the 3rd kingdom is identified as Greece. Who conquered Babylon and who did Greece conquer?
We will see if Russia devours much flesh or not.
Soon I'm sure.
 

CTK

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We will see if Russia devours much flesh or not.
Soon I'm sure.
You did not answer the question. Who conquered Babylon and who did Greece conquer? There is only one answer... not understanding how in the Book of Daniel he can identify the kingdoms in no less than 3 chapters.....
 
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The PuP

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The 4 beasts of Daniel 7 are the 4 kings that will rise when the great image of Daniel 2 is broken into its component parts "together":

Dan 2:34-35 KJV 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces TOGETHER, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

The bear kingdom of Daniel 7 is the same as the silver kingdom of Daniel 2. The 4th kingdom will subsequently subdue the other 3 kingdoms... for a season and a time:

Dan 7:11-12 KJV 11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the [three] beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The Rev 13 beast that rises from the sea is this 4th kingdom of Daniel 7, which rises from the sea, along with the other three. The Rev 13 beast is essentially the great image of Daniel 2, just before the stone kingdom of Christ crushes it into its individual parts, having God given authority to do so... having 10 crowns upon its 10 horns. The Rev 17 beast is a picture of this same beast usurping it's unauthorized [by God] authority to rule... no crowns!

Rev 17:12-17 KJV 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Be Blessed
The PuP
 
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tailgator

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You did not answer the question. Who conquered Babylon and who did Greece conquer? There is only one answer... not understanding how in the Book of Daniel he can identify the kingdoms in no less than 3 chapters.....
This isn't about Greece.This topic is about Russia.

Are you giving me your word that Russia can not nuke Ukraine?
 

CTK

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This isn't about Greece.This topic is about Russia.

Are you giving me your word that Russia can not nuke Ukraine?
I have not mentioned Russia once but I have asked you to define the 4 beast kingdoms in Daniel. You stated the bear in Daniel is Russia which is quite confusing to me. So I provided you with the two beast kingdoms before and after the 2nd beast kingdom... Who are your 4 beast kingdoms in Daniel? Thanks.
 

tailgator

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I have not mentioned Russia once but I have asked you to define the 4 beast kingdoms in Daniel. You stated the bear in Daniel is Russia which is quite confusing to me. So I provided you with the two beast kingdoms before and after the 2nd beast kingdom... Who are your 4 beast kingdoms in Daniel? Thanks.
I don't care if you mentioned Russia or not.This thread is about Russia nuking ukraine.Now if your word is Russia can not nuke Ukraine ,then say so.
If not ,then you can always make a thread about something else.
 

tailgator

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President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine is convinced it is possible to stop Vladimir Putin in his war tracks as early as before this November.




Sounds like Zelensky would like to use those long range missiles before November if Biden will let him.
 

CTK

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I don't care if you mentioned Russia or not.This thread is about Russia nuking ukraine.Now if your word is Russia can not nuke Ukraine ,then say so.
If not ,then you can always make a thread about something else.
Very well, have a nice day.
 

Reggie Belafonte

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LONDON, Sept 27 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin has drawn a "red line" for the United States and its allies by signalling that Moscow will consider responding with nuclear weapons if they allow Ukraine to strike deep inside Russia with long-range Western missiles.




I really don't think he is bluffing this time around.
I think he is ready to stand his ground.

If Putin does use nukes after a Ukraine assault on Russia using US or British long range missiles.I don't believe anyone is going to do anything about it.
Putin never started this War in fact !

Putins hand was forced to enter into this idiot War ! by Joe Biden that's clear !

The War is truly about Oil and Gas that has been found in regards Joe Biden and Co ! if their was not Oil or Gas found,then the War would not of been pushed full on like it has been so as to escalate and only escalate escalate is the Joe Biden and Co and nothing but, because the Co want the money.
Zelensky will tempt Trump with a huge % of the Pie ? if he wins office ! so that they are all on board. for sure.

But Putin has little Nuclear bombs that can wipe out say 2 to 5KM maybe 1km just to stop the enemy from attacking Russia. so they can pop such little things about the place.
Sadly it has come to this but Russia is forced to use such, because the Governments in the West are War criminals ? for the West has no right to push for this War at all in fact.

The people in East Ukraine had every right to Vote ! but the Satanic West and UN rejected their rights to Vote in fact !
For they knew if the people in East Ukraine boarders had the right to Vote on the subject, then Russia would clearly of won 80% of the Vote !
If the right to Vote was upheld everyone would of been living in peace in fact and happy ! and Homes and lives not destroyed.

They claim 45,000 Ukraine people are dead and 70,000 Russians are dead ? due to Joe Biden and Co hell bent escalation for killing and they do not give a rats arse at all, clearly that is a non issue ! not to mention Nazis in Ukraine is another non issue as well ! Joe Biden and Co are clearly all for the Nazis ! they are inpowering such people ! not to mention they do the same with Islamic idiots so as to attack Israel and that's a fact !
Joe Biden clearly outrigh gave Islam all them Weapons from Afghanistan to attack Israel in fact ! No one could be so stupid ! Joe Biden is clearly as guilty as Hell ! and the Satanic Socialist in the West and within Israel have let this Terrorist attack on Israel kick off and not to mention feed it all !
Why well it's all about undermining the Right Wing Government of Israel in fact ! that's what it truly is all about ! for the Right Wing understand that you can not have a two State solution ! Such is insanity that only idiot Socialist would claim will work ! it will not work at all, for Israel will fail if it did !
I am talking about worthy Israel in regards to God ? Socialist Israel is not worthy of God at all in fact ! and that's what the Socialist want ! for they can get along with Islamic trash, because they are trash ! it's the same ends ? such is dictatorship over the People in fact ! that's their Key ends, of Satanic Socialist State of Israel and Islam ! for both are Godless whores !

So you see in regards to the Socialist, the ends justfy the means in fact ! that's their mantra in fact ! such is clearly typical of Nazis and Communist for such is the core of their religion !
So you see this warfare going on 24/7 by any means that they can force people ? It's the power of being Political Correct ? because the fact is that such do not have any regard for the Truth in fact, but they call truth relitive etc ? so they come up with this rubbish of Political Correct ? such is the Key to Nazi Power in fact and Communism ! it's their Mantra ! for with out this Key they have no power at all, for they could not drive in the wedge, so as to undermine freedom of speech in fact ! for they truly have no values in fact regarding ones Salvation, so that's why they Kill ! Just as we see in the Bible that Jesus was attacked by such who loved the darkness, so they work so as to shut out any light, for they feer being exposed, so they work to shut down all such ! their craft is very good at fooling such people. so you see why they promote sexual depravity and force such of children and the lowest comon denominator becomes the standard set for all ! for such as they clearly are Deranged filth themselves ! The majority do not know what they do because they are not worthy of God in fact, so they do not stand up to such wolves !

Taking on Russia is a totaly childish move, you can not Win ! whoever thinks of taking on Russia must be devoid of common sense or down right stupid !
Remember the fear of Communist Russia back in the 60's etc it was a Big No no ! it was not worth it ? but now it's not a problem ? :rolleyes: so the Media and Governments claim ? but Russia had nothing in regards Nuclear Power tec that they have nowadays in fact !
Russia can wipe the USA of the face of the earth totaly and West Europe easy as !

In Australia we have a little boy for PM and he is a total moron, for he has provoked Russia like a stupid 5yo brat would do ! you need to keep lines of communication in regards such open ?

Remember Trump in Office and Putin wanted to get him on the phone ? and the idiots did not inform Trump that Putin wanted to get him on the phone ?
When Trump found out he was totaly pissed off that they did not bother to inform him, why was that ? well Trump said this dude is in charge of the 2ed most powerful Nation on earth ! and idiots dismiss such !

What if Putin rang an had an issue with some military issue taking place ? and the USA could of been launched on ? and here we had the minders who had no regard ! now that is dumb and as stupid as you get in fact ! outright ignorance and lack of regard Peoples lives in fact !
That's how Wars can kick off big time in fact !
You do not cut communication lines to such unless one is a 5yo in the brain box, such a one chould be kicked out of office by the GG in fact, for they are not representing the people who voted them in. But Socialist are not bothered with such, because they live in a fantacy land. Peoples lives could be on the line and what do we have, a stupid idiot Slob at the wheel !

The Media should be exposing all such, in the intrest of the People, but they clearly have no true regards the People in fact.
 

FaithWillDo

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Daniel 7:5
Dear tailgator,
The bear does not represent Russia.

Here is what Paul says about how to understand spirit words (John 6:63):

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

When we compare the spirit word "bear" with how it is used elsewhere in scripture, we can discern that the spirit word "bear" represents Satan. My comments are in blue.

1Sam 17: And David said unto Saul, Thy servant kept his father's sheep, and there came a lion, and a bear, and took a lamb out of the flock (when a carnal believer/babe becomes apostate):

1Sam 17:36 Thy servant
(the converted Elect) slew both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine (represents the Old Man) shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies (the Elect) of the living God.

Prov 28:15 As a roaring lion, and a ranging bear; so is a wicked ruler over the poor people
(spiritually poor/carnal babes).

In the verse below, Satan (as a bear) is shown to be raised up on one side eating three ribs:

Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side (represents “works”), and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh (called out believers/babes).

The number three is a symbol which represents a spiritual process and the symbol "ribs" represents mankind’s carnal and marred spirit. It is through mankind’s carnal spirit (the ribs) that Satan “devours much flesh”. From this spiritual process of Satan consuming all new believers through their carnality, a “worse than the first” (Mat 12:43-45) child of the Devil is made.

The scriptures below teach how Satan as a bear devours the church via the spirit of anti-Christ.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves (ministers of Satan who have the spirit of anti-Christ) enter in among you, not sparing the flock (100%).

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes who draw milk) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

In Mat 12:43-45, the spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first (a man of sin).

Because all new believers begin following Christ as "babes", all new believers will "fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken" by Satan and will enter the apostate church. Because all new believers become apostate, when Christ returns to the ones who have been chosen (the Elect), Christ will find them in this fallen away condition. To restore the Elect believer, Christ will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit and heal their spiritual blindness. With their blindness healed, they will see the Abomination of Desolation which previously occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ entered them. This will cause the Elect believer to come out from Satan's deceptions.

The two scriptures below apply to this time:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains (because judgment is about to fall):

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked
(an apostate believer/man of sin) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Christ's judgment of the Elect believer is described in the verses below:

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Here is how to understand verses 40 & 41:

40 Then shall two (Holy Spirit & spirit of anti-Christ/child of God & man of sin) be in the field (represents one believer who is "working"); the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin), and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God). 41 Two women (Great Harlot & new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit) shall be grinding at the mill (represents one believer who is "working" making leavened bread); the one shall be taken (Great Harlot), and the other left (new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).

The judgment event described above completes the conversion process which changes the old vessel (child of the Devil) into the new vessel (child of God).

How Noah's flood applies:

Noah's flood is a physical "type" which teaches conversion. The ark represents Christ who protects the newly born child of God during their time of judgment (why the believer does not experience wrath during judgment). The people who die in the flood (judgment) represent the child of the Devil who is destroyed from within the believer.

All the various "end-time" prophecies are teachings on the pathway to salvation that leads to an Elect person's conversion. The Elect are the only ones who will have the "ends of the ages" come upon them before they die:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

The mainstream teachings on end-time prophecy come from a carnal understanding of scripture. None of what is commonly taught is true.

Joe
 

covenantee

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Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains (because judgment is about to fall):
They fled in 66 AD.

Judgment fell in 70 AD.
 

FaithWillDo

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They fled in 66 AD.

Judgment fell in 70 AD.
Dear covenantee,
The end-time prophecies are spiritual teachings of the New Covenant. The signs of the times are spiritual events that occur within an Elect believer just before and during the time that they are going through the conversion process. After they are converted, the ends of the ages have come upon them.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

How can the ends of the ages come upon the Elect before they die if what you believe is true?

Your understanding of the end-time prophecy is physical and outward which is how a person understands the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is different. It is spiritual and its teachings apply within a person.

When a believer is indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ, that spirit profanes God's temple (the believer where the Holy Spirit dwells). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs and it happens to all believers while they are unconverted babes. That is why after Christ "comes again" and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit & heals the spiritual blindness of the believer, they will be able to see the Abomination of Desolation which previously occurred within themselves. It is at that time when the man of sin is revealed and when the believer discovers that they are that man of sin.

After Paul's death, Satan devoured the flock via the spirit of anti-Christ. Nothing has changed since that time. If a believer has not seen the A of D, they are not converted but remain under Satan's deceptions in the apostate church.

The way you understand end-time prophecy, it has not ever applied in the lives of any of the Elect to this day. If that were so, the ends of the ages could not have come upon the Elect and Paul was mistaken when he wrote 1Cor 10:11.

Joe
 

covenantee

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Dear covenantee,
The end-time prophecies are spiritual teachings of the New Covenant. The signs of the times are spiritual events that occur within an Elect believer just before and during the time that they are going through the conversion process. After they are converted, the ends of the ages have come upon them.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

How can the ends of the ages come upon the Elect before they die if what you believe is true?

Your understanding of the end-time prophecy is physical and outward which is how a person understands the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is different. It is spiritual and its teachings apply within a person.

When a believer is indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ, that spirit profanes God's temple (the believer where the Holy Spirit dwells). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs and it happens to all believers while they are unconverted babes. That is why after Christ "comes again" and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit & heals the spiritual blindness of the believer, they will be able to see the Abomination of Desolation which previously occurred within themselves. It is at that time when the man of sin is revealed and when the believer discovers that they are that man of sin.

After Paul's death, Satan devoured the flock via the spirit of anti-Christ. Nothing has changed since that time. If a believer has not seen the A of D, they are not converted but remain under Satan's deceptions in the apostate church.

The way you understand end-time prophecy, it has not ever applied in the lives of any of the Elect to this day. If that were so, the ends of the ages could not have come upon the Elect and Paul was mistaken when he wrote 1Cor 10:11.

Joe
Realities are both physical and spiritual.

The physical reality of 70 AD marked the complete physical and spiritual end of the old covenant, and the full inauguration of the physical and spiritual realities of the New Covenant.

Neither reality can exist without the other.

The Judaean Christians physically fled in 66 AD in response to Jesus' warning, and preserved their lives both physically and spiritually.

The abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 is identified in the parallel synoptic verse of Luke 21:20 as the Roman armies which physically invaded and desolated Jerusalem in 70 AD.
 
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FaithWillDo

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Realities are both physical and spiritual.

The physical reality of 70 AD marked the complete physical and spiritual end of the old covenant, and the full inauguration of the physical and spiritual realities of the New Covenant.

Neither reality can exist without the other.

The Judaean Christians physically fled in 66 AD in response to Jesus' warning, and preserved their lives both physically and spiritually.

The abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 is identified in the parallel synoptic verse of Luke 21:20 as the Roman armies which physically invaded and desolated Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Dear covenantee,
The Old Covenant ended upon Christ's crucifixion. The Law did not end - only the Old Covenant way of approaching God ended. At that time, the temple of God changed from being the physical temple to being a spiritual temple (the believer). All the New Covenant teachings of Christ need to be understood and applied in this manner. You must move pass the Old Covenant way of understanding.

Consider this: John wrote his four letters AFTER the destruction of the temple in 70 A. D. If the temple's destruction was the fulfillment of the prophesied event of Mat 24:15 as you claim, why didn't John mention it in his letters? John didn't mention it because it was not the fulfillment of that prophecy.

Also, in Mat 24:14, Christ was talking about the "end" coming. Then in verse 15, He immediately mentions the A of D as one of the "signs of the times" which immediately proceeds His second coming. If the destruction of the temple in 70 A. D. was the A of D that Christ mentioned, why didn't the "end" come and Christ appear at that time? In fact, according to your beliefs, Christ still has not come back even to this day (over 1900 years). Why did Christ even mention the A of D if it was not relevant to His return?

When a person understands Christ's teachings as being spiritual teachings that apply within each of His Elect, the prophecies of the end-time make perfect sense and it eliminates all the contradictions that your carnal understanding of the prophecies have with other scripture.

With a spiritual understanding of the prophecies, the prophecies have been vitally relevant to all the Elect since the death of Paul when the spirit of anti-Christ devoured the church. In fact, many of the parables, types and analogies that Christ uses to teach the truths of the New Covenant, all present the same spiritual signs that Christ teaches in Matthew chapter 24 (for those with eyes that can see). Those "signs" are teaching the spiritual events that will happen to each of His Elect which lead up to and include their conversion. Christ came to save mankind and His teachings of the New Covenant present exactly how He will accomplish it. They are not one-time physical events which occur out in the world as you believe. The prophecies are just as relevant today to every Elect believer as they were when John wrote the book of Revelation. The time for their fulfillment was already "at hand" when John received the vision:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.


Since the teachings of end-time prophecy present the spiritual events that lead up to conversion, each Elect person must "keep those things which are written therein" to be saved. In this sense, the "time is at hand" for the fulfillment of those prophecies. Because this is the true meaning of the prophecies, Christ must come quickly to each of His Elect before they physically die or they would not be converted.

Christ's second coming is therefore a reoccurring spiritual event that has happened to each of the Elect down through this age - and that is exactly how scripture describes His second coming:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned (His reign occurs within each believer after they are converted).

If Christ doesn't come to a believer before they die, they are not one of the Elect.

You need to consider the truths presented in the scriptures which I quoted above and then reconsider your understanding of the prophecies. They do not teach what you and others believe.

Joe
 
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covenantee

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Dear covenantee,
The Old Covenant ended upon Christ's crucifixion. The Law did not end - only the Old Covenant way of approaching God ended. At that time, the temple of God changed from being the physical temple to being a spiritual temple (the believer). All the New Covenant teachings of Christ need to be understood and applied in this manner. You must move pass the Old Covenant way of understanding.

Consider this: John wrote his four letters AFTER the destruction of the temple in 70 A. D. If the temple's destruction was the fulfillment of the prophesied event of Mat 24:15 as you claim, why didn't John mention it in his letters? John didn't mention it because it was not the fulfillment of that prophecy.

Also, in Mat 24:14, Christ was talking about the "end" coming. Then in verse 15, He immediately mentions the A of D as one of the "signs of the times" which immediately proceeds His second coming. If the destruction of the temple in 70 A. D. was the A of D that Christ mentioned, why didn't the "end" come and Christ appear at that time? In fact, according to your beliefs, Christ still has not come back even to this day (over 1900 years). Why did Christ even mention the A of D if it was not relevant to His return?

When a person understands Christ's teachings as being spiritual teachings that apply within each of His Elect, the prophecies of the end-time make perfect sense and it eliminates all the contradictions that your carnal understanding of the prophecies have with other scripture.

With a spiritual understanding of the prophecies, the prophecies have been vitally relevant to all the Elect since the death of Paul when the spirit of anti-Christ devoured the church. In fact, many of the parables, types and analogies that Christ uses to teach the truths of the New Covenant, all present the same spiritual signs that Christ teaches in Matthew chapter 24 (for those with eyes that can see). Those "signs" are teaching the spiritual events that will happen to each of His Elect which lead up to and include their conversion. Christ came to save mankind and His teachings of the New Covenant present exactly how He will accomplish it. They are not one-time physical events which occur out in the world as you believe. The prophecies are just as relevant today to every Elect believer as they were when John wrote the book of Revelation. The time for their fulfillment was already "at hand" when John received the vision:

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come QUICKLY: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.


Since the teachings of end-time prophecy present the spiritual events that lead up to conversion, each Elect person must "keep those things which are written therein" to be saved. In this sense, the "time is at hand" for the fulfillment of those prophecies. Because this is the true meaning of the prophecies, Christ must come quickly to each of His Elect before they physically die or they would not be converted.

Christ's second coming is therefore a reoccurring spiritual event that has happened to each of the Elect down through this age - and that is exactly how scripture describes His second coming:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.


Rev 11:17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was and who is to come, because you have taken your great power and reigned (His reign occurs within each believer after they are converted).

If Christ doesn't come to a believer before they die, they are not one of the Elect.

You need to consider the truths presented in the scriptures which I quoted above and then reconsider your understanding of the prophecies. They do not teach what you and others believe.

Joe
Yes, the old covenant ended spiritually at Calvary, but its physical trappings persisted until 70 AD. That is why the physical destruction of Jerusalem was essential. You're missing that.

You're ignoring the Luke 21:20 identification of the abomination of desolation; and you're ignoring the historic flight of the Judaean Christians in direct response to Jesus' warning.

And you're ignoring the wisdom and discernment of acknowledged historical exegetes of the true Christian Church for 17 centuries, who were unanimous in their recognition of the historicity of the physical destruction of Jerusalem.
 
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