Christian Meditation and Interfaith Dialog

[amigo de christo]

When you talk of reincarnation, are you talking about Eastern (religion) reincarnation? That is, coming back as a different life form according to the good or the evil of a previous life?

Or do you mean the Christian doctrine of Sanctification? Growing spiritually more and more into the likeness of Christ.

Also, I'm curious as to why you only mentioned unconditional love towards Buddhists. What about the Muslims, Hindus and others? :)

What do you believe about the blood of Christ cleansing us from our sins?

The Threefold Secret of the Holy Spirit

Years ago early in my Christian life I read a classic book called The Threefold Secret of the Holy Spirit. It was written by James McConkey. The copy I have was published by Moody Press. This book had a big impact on me in my Christian walk. Basically he wrote that the following is key to...

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Rather odd that JESUS seemed to put condition on salvation . He never went around
saying just have unconditional love to all , but rather to preach the gospel to all and those who receive amen
and those who dont , shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them , for it will be far worse for even them
than ever it was for sodom on the day of judgment .
We need to be aware and on gaurd . Lets remember what john once wrote .
He said i am writing this not because you DO NOT KNOW the truth but because you do know the truth
and that NO LIE is of the truth . WHEN these interfaither inclusiviains be teaching
the false love and unity they do and omitting the dire necessity to have to BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
they preach of anti christ . JOHN had this problem even in his days .
Some were coming in and teaching a lie . SAME LIE these do today .
The mystery of inquity , or that which is of anti christ , IT aint stopped , ITS GROWN MASSIVE and specially
in these last hours . You can easily see from the pictures of all them religoins lined up
exactly WHERE this is all headed . A one world love religion that unites them all as one under A LIE that will not save them .
THE GOSPEL is no longer at the front , its been omitted for another mindset , one which simply
reconciles man to man . In the end all it did was create the largest social gathering love club that saved none of them .
THE MISSION must always be ,to preach what RECONCILES MAN TO GOD . that be THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST .
now lambs will join with lambs to preach the truth . The world simply , under guise of satan , gathers as one
giving the idea that it is GODS PLAN to unify the world as one under what they THINK is GOD and is love .
BUT ITS NEITHER .

 

[amigo de christo]

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Only because you look at it, Amigo. :)
Don't look at it.
Look away.
Simply look the other way.
Learn how to overlook it.

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What is ecumenism and interfaith dialogue . Its the very means to decieve us to be unequally yoked together
with unbelievers .
What common ground does a believer have with an unbeliever . NONE .
if you notice they always preach we need to just find out what we have in common , find common ground .
BIG problem with that mindset . Because all unbelievers do not have THE MIND of CHRIST
they have the carnal mind that is operated by the flesh .
That is why it teaches this . This is why it will say things like we can find common ground
in things like football , in things , take note OF THE WORLD . its WORDLY THINGS that all have in common .
YET we are not to align with the flesh . All religions and even atheist do have one thing in common .
They teach in areas about love , about doing good . BUT its mens ways of seeing things . It based on what men consider
good . It will overlook sins and etc . AND it will not make The preaching of the gospel of dire necessity.
Rather it says just do good to all , come together , find common ground .
HECK boy scouts had common ground , yet not all believe IN JESUS CHRIST .
Thus its all dead works that wont save a one of them .

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

When you talk of reincarnation, are you talking about Eastern (religion) reincarnation? That is, coming back as a different life form according to the good or the evil of a previous life?

Also, I'm curious as to why you only mentioned unconditional love towards Buddhists. What about the Muslims, Hindus and others? :)

Hi,

If you go back to your post, which quoted me, it reads :

" God being a stern, but loving and forgiving Father, has been kindly allowing us to keep reincarnating for as long as we need in order to purify our mind by spiritually growing in our unconditional Love for all living creatures, including all the Buddhists."

" Are you talking about Eastern (religion) reincarnation? "

Christianity originated as a Middle-Eastern religion.
Jesus, with his blond hair and blue eyes, looks as if he were born in Sweden. :)

Keep in mind that God works in mysterious ways. God created my soul first, and then my soul was sent by God to inhabit the fetus in my mother's womb during her pregnancy. After I die, my soul will leave my dead body. At this point God might decide to again send my soul to another human fetus, or not.

I have just created a new thread :

May a Christian Believe in Reincarnation?
https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/may-a-christian-believe-in-reincarnation.60365/

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

According to the World Community for Christian Meditation ( WCCM.org ), the following is the reason why the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) had practised silent meditation of self-emptying:

" During a still & silent Christian meditation retreat, you’ll have a short talk in the morning, a one to one with your companion or mentor during the week – that’s a very important part of the balancing and the integration of what mystical experiences will come to you. But otherwise you will be in silence. The talk is the least important part of the retreat. As you start experiencing the natural state of mind, you will also begin to see the necessary distinction between mind and heart. You will also begin to glimpse the fact that your mind and your ego (self) are very intertwined. In fact, it might even seem to you that they are one and the same thing. They are not the same thing, and they are not bad in themselves, but they can very easily and quickly become over-agitated, dysfunctional and simply too active. Meditation day by day begins to reduce that activity, and reveals the false reality (illusion) of the ego (self)."

More references are provided here: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4Dave

Be silent, meditate on God's word - a good practice.
I am retired and kind of a loner; so, that is a day to day thing for me.
I found that fasting really gets you tuned into God. By day three, you become so spiritually alert and clear minded. Food typically can make you sluggish, dull. In a sense, your body digests everything and so it is also a cleanse. It is not just food you are giving up though. Any busy work, lifestyle, common necessities should be put in hold ... cell phones, bye bye. However, water fasts can leave you drained of energy as well, so for those who can't hang with that, try some organic juice and a protein drink.
We have the Holy Spirit, but we also have lots of distractions in our lives; so, it is like radiin station you are trying to tune into but there's too much static. We need clear reception to God and this sacrifice is also telling Him, "Okay Lord, I'm listening".
Jesus went into the wilderness for forty days - that is too much for us; although, I've heard of people who have done it.
Also our spiritual gifts are empowered. Remeber when the disciples could not rid a person of a demon? Jesus said, they needed to fast. So, there it is, fasting spiritually empowers you.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

​

Christian mystical Non-Duality means that we have never been separated from God, because the kingdom of God has always been deep within us. We have been children of God all along, and forever after, and God will never disown us, despite naturally being, like a loving mother, compassionately angry with us whenever we happen to harm ourselves with our sins, and threatening us with eternal Hell to sober us up. Because, being spiritually immature, we all, in essence, live lives of the prodigal son (or daughter) from the Biblical parable, God being a stern, but loving and forgiving Father, has been kindly allowing us to keep reincarnating for as long as we need in order to purify our mind by spiritually growing in our unconditional Love for all living creatures, because Christ urged us to love even our enemies. For in God’s Heaven, there is only Divine Love and perfect harmony, all revelling in the Non-Dual divine Glory of God’s Holy Light. ​

“Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright.” — all is Light. ​

Red flag: Reincarnation is not taught in the Bible. Ànd btw, sin separates us from God. We are born separated from God due to Adam's sin.
The whole purpose of life (one life btw), is to be reconciled with God through Christ.
And this "ecumenical movement" _ to harmonize all religions _ is frankly Satan's work.
The primary difference between all other religions compared to Christianity, is Jesus. He said, Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the gate to Life.
He is the Gate, the Way, the Truth and the LIFE. He is the source of life! ALL other religions lead to destruction, with the exception of Judaism. Romans 11 claims that in the end times, when the fullness of the gentiles comes in, a remnant population of Jews ( Israel) will be saved.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Red flag: Reincarnation is not taught in the Bible.

Dear brother Ron,

Hi,

Thank you very much for sharing with us your Christian contemplative life.
Much appreciated.

Yes, I do agree with you that fasting is the most important factor in successful Christian meditation.

May I disagree with you, dear brother? :)

First of all, it would be nice to know what do you mean when you say: "reincarnation".

Secondly, reincarnation is taught in the Holy Bible, and this is the reason why I have just created this new thread :

May a Christian Believe in Reincarnation?
https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/may-a-christian-believe-in-reincarnation.60365/

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Out from the Shadow of Other Gods

Every Christian is desperate for a true relationship and life changing experience with God, but our most prevalent model of success and failure has been religion. The things that have been taught us have had more to do with man’s search for a god, rather than in God showing us His ways. There is a place where religion dies and genuine relationship begins. The first in a series, the author provides a platform for change and a simple yet powerful way out from the trappings of humanities religion. Ministering with honor to the pastor as well as to the prodigal and revealing a surprising bounty of Jesus in every page. Get ready to be encouraged, challenged, and renewed in your walk of faith.

I agree with this summary of your book. It reminds me a a book I read a long time ago: " How To Be A Christian Without Being Religious", by Fritz Rendour, c1967. One of the key themes I quote on occasion: "Religion is man's way of reaching God. Christianity is God's way of reaching man."

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

First of all, it would be nice to know what do you mean when you say: "reincarnation".

Reincarnation, is The Hindu belief and Buddhists as well, that a person will die and then come back as another person, over and over again until he has fulfilled his karmic functions/ lessons ... until I guess he doesn't have to come back anymore and reaches Nirvana, whatever that is? Oh yes, it's the All Nothingness, a spiritual universe in which he empties himself into. Some believe in a transmigration of souls into animals or even insects. That would be going in the wrong direction for them ... wait but isn't there just one direction for them? And then of course it is a polytheistic religion with many gods - I suppose one can as end to be one himself/ herself?
The belief is pathetic. This cycle of coming back over and over again to account for good or bad things done in a previous life, if it were true, could not be known. We are conscious of this life. An fetus when born is ignorant of everything. They must be taught. They do have a sin nature, rebelliousness against God and all authority, including parents. You have experienced children in the "terrible two" stage. These lost souls think they will have many chances to get it right! That is a lie.
I remember watching a film, "Seven Years in Tibet", with Brad Pitt. He was an architect who found his way to Tibet. There was a boy, whom the people believed was a reincarnated guru, the Dali Lama. He was just a boy! Long story short, there was a scene where the boy wanted thw architect to build him a movie theatre so he could watch movies on a big screen. So monks had to clear an area and break up the ground ... but wait ... first they had to kneel down on the dirt and pray for the insects, worms ( thinking they were disturbing some reincarnated souls). When I saw that, wow, how absurd and foolish I thought these Monks were - totally lost. Nice guys though ... peaceful ... the kind that also go off by themselves and empty their minds in solitude. That is there thing, to be in harmony with nature. Only those worms were just interested in eating dead plants, live plants, dead animals, animal poo, and other microscopic animals. It was really something comical watching these adults worship this little boy and prepare him and teach him.
GOD does not want us to empty our minds of everything, only of worldy things ... we are to die to ourselves and fill our minds with His Word.


Jesus said, there is one life, one death and then the judgment.

 

[Gordon]

I agree with this summary of your book. It reminds me a a book I read a long time ago: " How To Be A Christian Without Being Religious", by Fritz Rendour, c1967. One of the key themes I quote on occasion: "Religion is man's way of reaching God. Christianity is God's way of reaching man."

I've made the same quote at times and I use it in the book. In this case we say; you can take man out of religion but how do you get religion out of the man?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

The belief is pathetic.

To you, this belief is pathetic.
I respect your opinion.

But to many intelligent and educated people,
belief in our God Yahweh is pathetic, or worse.

According to Dr. Richard Dawkins, belief in our God
Yahweh is a delusion.

There is far more evidence for existence of reincarnation
than for existence of our God Yahweh.

One could even say that there is more evidence for existence
of multiple Hindu Gods than for existence of our God Yahweh.

Dr. Richard Dawkins wrote :
“ The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Red flag: Reincarnation is not taught in the Bible.

Neither the existence of dinosaurs is taught in the Bible.

Is the Flat Earth idea taught in the Bible? :)

Is Copernicus' heliocentric astronomy taught in the Bible?

Dear brother Ron, do you believe that whatever
is not taught in the Bible does not exists,
or is a satanic deception?

In principle, the nature of Interfaith Dialog allows us
the opportunity to challenge our own religious beliefs,
and therein lies the important value of it for World Peace.

Granted, not all Christians feel the pressing need
to challenge their religious beliefs, and that is very well and fine.

However, unfortunately, many of these same Christians
somehow do feel the pressing need to prevent other Christians
from doing so, and that is simply very wrong, because this is
precisely the kind of mentality that the Vatican authorities
had in their narrow dogmatic minds when forbidding
Galileo di Vincenzo Bonaiuti de Galilei from using
his much improved telescope and endorsing Copernican
heliocentrism that according to the infallible opinion
of the Holy Catholic Inquisition in 1615 was officially proclaimed
to be foolish, absurd, and heretical since it contradicted biblical creationism.

After several such heretics had been publicly burned
at the stake, the Vatican authorities no longer insist
that the Earth must be flat. :)

 

[Gordon]

To you, this belief is pathetic.
I respect your opinion.

But to many intelligent and educated people,
belief in our God Yahweh is pathetic, or worse.

According to Dr. Richard Dawkins, belief in our God
Yahweh is a delusion.

There is far more evidence for existence of reincarnation
than for existence of our God Yahweh.

One could even say that there is more evidence for existence
of multiple Hindu Gods than for existence of our God Yahweh.

Dr. Richard Dawkins wrote :
“ The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

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I think that the dilemma is one of not knowing who sits on the throne. If you depend on the life of Jesus then their are expectations set upon all that dwell in His house. So we learn that those that worship God do so in spirit and in truth. This is where the Bible becomes so important to understand His boundaries in defining life and faith. This is also why we say that God is just in His actions when it comes to putting man in his place.
Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, the person who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Reincarnation, The Hindu belief and Buddhists as well, that a person will die and then come back as another person, over and over again until he has fulfilled his karmic functions/ lessons ... until I guess he doesn't have to come back anymore and reaches Nirvana, whatever that is? Oh yes, the All Nothingness, a spiritual universe in which he empties himself into. Some believe in a transmigration of souls into animals or even insects.

I believe in Christian reincarnation, not Hindu nor Buddhist.

And the following are some reasons why I do believe in Christian reincarnation:

May a Christian Believe in Reincarnation?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There is far more evidence for existence of reincarnation
than for existence of our God Yahweh.

I experience, am aware of, have a relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The evidence is overwhelming about Jesus and His impact and influence on the world.
So called evidence of reincarnation is deceptive, very cleverly devised by Satan.
I come from a family, a mother, an uncle, my brother who considered the belief in reincarnation. Discussions about it for years when I was younger intrigued everyone. I have heard the stories, tue claims made ... people speaking different languages, claiming to be from another time, another country, a different gender and names that checked. Some go into a trance or are hypnotized and the show begins. It can confound and fool the smartest people out there. I considered my uncle and brother pretty smart. The explanation is very simple. There is no doubt these people had supernatural knowledge of different languages, people, places and events. That does is not proof of reincarnation. If you had no knowledge of the supernatural, entities, principalities on the dark unseen realm, then yes you would suspect this was evidence. It's not.
Demons have been around a long time, are aware of different languages, countries, events and people. People channel these spirits who are actually the persons spewing out this information.
It is just one of Satan's many tricks.

I am also familiar with Richard Dawkins, why bother bringing him up? We can talk about Stephen Hawking, an intelligent guy, whom God confounded and who was a fool. Those are GOD'S WORDS, "He who says there is no God is a fool".

 

[Gordon]

I believe in Christian reincarnation, not Hindu nor Buddhist.

And the following are some reasons why I do believe in Christian reincarnation:

May a Christian Believe in Reincarnation?

Rebuttal
Belief Of The Apostles
1. Early biblical principles said God would bring a curse on the man that sinned to the third and forth generation. Jesus was only pointing out that this wasn’t about a sin issue but a glory issue. No further implementation can be made.
Non-Belief in Reincarnation Rebuked By Jesus
1. “Second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?” No you must be born of the Spirit and not flesh again.
2. “and naked shall I return thither.” No Job who had just lost all was saying “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart.
3. You turn people back to dust,
saying, “Return to dust, you mortals.”
4. The Book of Tobit, named after its principal character, combines Jewish piety and morality with folklore. Non biblical
5. Ecclesiasticus, deuterocanonical biblical work (accepted in the Roman Catholic canon but noncanonical for Jews and Protestants.
God’s Law Behind Reincarnation
1, “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27) Great objection take it at face value. Don’t mysticate it.
2. “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men for all have sinned” (Romans 5:12)
If man is in a perpetual state of sin as with the first man, does the Redeemer have to die each time for the one that calls upon His name?
A Dramatic Example
2 Kings 2
1. Thus was the sowing; then came the reaping. Is not passing from one life to another. If that is the argument then we return to Just as one man sin, sin spread to all men that sin. The fallen nature in man never finds Redemption though you say he goes from one life to the next.
2. Elijah Taken Up to Heaven and not reincarnated.
John the Baptist carried a spiritual mantle of authority like Elijah.
3. “Ahab was reborn as Herod, and Jezebel as Herodias, the wife of Herod’s brother” No biblical text makes this claim.


We have to give greater place to Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Neither the existence of dinosaurs is taught in the Bible.

Leviathan and behemoth are in there. The Bible states, " There were giants in those days", speaking of men, but dinosaurs are giants too. Guess what? Reptiles don't stop growing. So if before the Flood, there was a different environment, a water canopy that blockebthe harmful UV rays of the sun and so lived eight times longer than we do now, how larger would those lizards be? Dinosaurs.

Is Copernicus' heliocentric astronomy taught in the Bible?

Scientic details are not included, the Bible gives us the basics. The universe was made for us to figure out, discover God's creation.

Dear brother Ron, do you believe that whatever
is not taught in the Bible does not exists,
or is a satanic deception?

Don't be ridiculous. I just drove to the grocery store in a car to pick up pharmeceutical medication for my Prostate and it was necessary for me to sign my name on a computer, then I purchased some other items in the self check out, left and by-passed a tennis court, baseball diamonds ... shall I go on?
All of that exists. You may be a robot though ... not sure yet. You seem to have the same name as a fictional DC character who goes by Dr. Manhattan. Or maybe you are just using that as your avatar?

In principle, the nature of Interfaith Dialog allows us
the opportunity to challenge our own religious beliefs,
and therein lies the important value of it for World Peace.

By all means, it is good to dialogue with people with different views; we should learn to get to know them and understand them, so that we can share the gospel with them. And peace is good too. But mankind is incapable of world peace. Temporary peace occurs for awhile, but as we look in the past, history is riddled with wars. The Middle East war right now will escallate into a BIG ONE, likely ARMAGEDDON.
I know this New World Order (with these elite groups, the WEF & UN think tanks) have that in their plans, but it is not possible. Why? Because of sin. Man cannot rid the planet of sin and so, this is why it is necessary for Christ to return and rid the planet of sin so that we can have peace. But He will also rid the planet of all false religions. Because no one comes to the Father unless they go through the Son. Those who do not put their faith in Christ will perish.
I thought I would jump to the chase. I mean, why beat around the bush?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

You seem to have the same name as a fictional DC character who goes by Dr. Manhattan. Or maybe you are just using that as your avatar?

Yes, they call me Doctor MANHATTAN, but my real name is Jonathan Österman. I am an experimental quantum physicist, the following is my personal website, and this is my scientific discovery of a new sub-atomic quantum particle, HOPFOTRINO: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/hopfotrino/


And the following demon-possessed covert satanists openly pretend to be interested in Jesus Christ in order to attract unsuspecting Christians for the purpose of brainwashing them into their pseudo-mystical cult of demon BAAL:

Metakastrup.org — EXPOSED.

The Temple of MAL (BAAL) ? A new CIA mind-control operation? Or, both?! You be the judge. Read on: Initially, Ashvin P pretends to be all nice and smiling, but below this thin pseudo-spiritual vene…

quantumantigravity.wordpress.com

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

But He will also rid the planet of all false religions. Because no one comes to the Father unless they go through the Son. Those who do not put their faith in Christ will perish.

My dear brother Ron,

Hi,

Thank you so very very much for all your answers to all my questions!

You have dispelled all my doubts. :)

All I have left is one last question for you.

My dear brother Ron, would you like to also help me
with answering this one last following question :

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/why-god-sends-some-souls-to-be-born-in-india-in-traditional-hindu-or-buddhist-religious-families.60379


God bless you,
Jon

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Rebuttal

My refutation of your rebuttal :

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/why-god-sends-some-souls-to-be-born-in-india-in-traditional-hindu-or-buddhist-religious-families.60379



.

 

[Gordon]

My refutation of your rebuttal :

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/why-god-sends-some-souls-to-be-born-in-india-in-traditional-hindu-or-buddhist-religious-families.60379



.

That would be a mistake to conclude that God is passing souls around. It is more likely that the body, soul and spirit is the by product of a union between two parents. This speaks more to the authority that was given to Adam and humanity as a whole. Passing souls around is still a reincarnation principle. As an example of people passing into the kingdom without reincarnating:
Revelation 20:4 And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God….They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.