Christian Denomination Differences

[Marymog]

Hard to believe "Christians" would kick someone into the outer...but they do.

Maybe they felt they were fulfilling Scripture: Matthew 18:17

 

[Enoch111]

Hi Enoch,
I get the gist of your point but what does it mean to "obey the Gospel"?

Paul summed it up in Acts 20.
18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, [1] repentance toward God, and [2] faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Verse 21 tells us exactly what obedience to the Gospel means.

What about the denominations that don't baptize or hold communion with bread and wine? Have they obeyed the gospel

Baptism and the Lord's Supper are integral to the Gospel. Not sure who does not hold to that.

 

[Marymog]

Paul summed it up in Acts 20.
18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, [1] repentance toward God, and [2] faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Verse 21 tells us exactly what obedience to the Gospel means.

Baptism and the Lord's Supper are integral to the Gospel. Not sure who does not hold to that.

Thank you.

Sooooo all I have to do is testify to the Jews and Greeks, repent and have faith....That's all I need to do?

Wonder why there are 130,000+ words in Scripture if all I have to do is obey those 20 words?????

Me thinks your theory needs some work.....

Your not sure who does not hold to that???? Are you being serious or do you just not know what your other Christian brothers/sisters practice?

 

[illini1959]

Hi,

If your theory is true....Why do all the Protestant denominations have different doctrines on "what is essential for salvation"?

According to you.....which ones can read and which ones can't?

Curious Mary

I can't speak for "protestant denominations" because I don't follow one. I don't follow Wesley, Luther, etc., I follow Christ.

Ask yourself what will keep you out of hell, eternal separation from God?

His Son. God sent His only Son to die for us and I quoted John 3:16 above - ...whosoever believes in Him has eternal life.

Obviously there's more to a believer's walk with Christ, but that is the essential. Not works, not baptism, nothing we can do.

If Jesus needed help saving us, then salvation is not of God; it's of us. Which is, of course, wrong.

There can be differences as long as they aren't salvific (doctrine relating to salvation - Jesus is fully God/fully man, born of a virgin, died and rose again, etc., etc., etc.)

Paul talks about this in Romans 14 saying in part "Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

and

One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

 

[Marymog]

I can't speak for "protestant denominations" because I don't follow one. I don't follow Wesley, Luther, etc., I follow Christ.

Ummmm.....they said the same thing as you are saying now soooo you are exactly like them.

Sooooo once again I will ask the same question but add your words to it: Why do all the Protestant denominations that believe they follow Christ (just like you believe you are following Christ) have different doctrines on "what is essential for salvation"?

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

There can be differences as long as they aren't salvific (doctrine relating to salvation - Jesus is fully God/fully man, born of a virgin, died and rose again, etc., etc., etc.).

Thank you illini,

Who decides what the doctrines are relating to salvation?

Mary

 

[Willie T]

Thank you illini,

Who decides what the doctrines are relating to salvation?

Mary

The Bible tells all Believers to judge for themselves what the words they read there mean. Others can't be trusted. For instance, just look at how many times Popes have come up with different views than previous Popes. And just about all preachers do the same thing. About the safest thing to do when dealing with the thought that you are to listen to one of those guys, is to just flip a coin.

 

[Marymog]

The Bible tells all Believers to judge for themselves what the words they read there mean. Others can't be trusted. For instance, just look at how many times Popes have come up with different views than previous Popes. And just about all preachers do the same thing. About the safest thing to do when dealing with the thought that you are to listen to one of those guys, is to just flip a coin.

Hi Willie,

Sooooo if I judge that the words that I have read don't mean what YOU say they mean and that you are wrong.....does that make me right?

Different views do not mean different doctrines when it comes to Popes. Big difference.....

How many Protestant leaders have come up with "different views" than their teachers and started their own church based on the words that "they read"?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

I can't speak for "protestant denominations" because I don't follow one. I don't follow Wesley, Luther, etc., I follow Christ.

If your not Catholic or Eastern Orthodox your Protestant.

broad definition of Protestant: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church

Sooooo you ARE protestant

Mary

 

[CNKW3]

Except for the saved by faith alone, which is scriptural,

if it’s scriptural, then show us all where “faith alone” is found. Saved by faith? Yes.
“Faith alone”? It’s not in the Bible. So, show us. Should t be hard if it’s so called “scriptural”.

where did I say any of the other stuff was biblical?

you didn’t and I never said you did. I was just showing you things that are actually NOT BIBLICAL.

Where are you getting that I said anything about any of this?

I never said you did. I was responding to you saying....works based salvation is not biblical. You said I took passages out of context, then go line by line and show me how I did that.
God said...he ACCEPTS those that fear him and WORKS righteousness. If you want salvation you must WORK something in some way.
HE DIDNT SAY... fear him and receives him by faith alone

Works based salvation is not biblical. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9

how many times were the Ephesians baptized? If you are correct they would not have ever been baptized, especially more than once. I’m amazed at the number of people who will read someone else’s mail and then not examine their actual life to see what they actually did to be saved...”by grace through faith”. You just assume you know and you call it “bible study”.

Works after salvation are. Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain. 1 Cor 15:58

why would you have to work AFTER salvation? If it’s not needed to begin with then why is it needed at all?

What claim did I make, lol? I mentioned a few things that denominations believe which are not scriptural - since this is supposedly a thread about denominational differences.... I never said I held to those beliefs.

you made the claim that “baptism doesn’t save”. I then gave you a direct translation that says the exact opposite of what you claimed. Haha. If it’s out of context then feel free to show how. You people dream of having a verse that says.....”faith alone doth also save us”.
But you don’t. And you reject the one that point blank describes baptism in EXACTLY that way.

Except the saved by faith, cuz yeah - that's biblical, and baptism doesn't save. Would Paul have thanked God he didn't baptize any of them, except for 2, if it was essential for salvation?

I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 1 Cor 1:14

Talking about taking a passage out of context!
What is the context of 1 Cor 1:10-18? Division!
They were dividing up by who baptized them. And Paul was reproving them for this. The fewer people he baptized the fewer people would be claiming....”I am of Paul”. It had nothing to do with whether or not baptism was essential. Actually, when you really study the context you’ll find that the passage is teaching the essentiality of baptism. Let’s study..
1 Corinthians 1:12-13 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
What we learn here is that....if you want to be “of Christ”, two things had to happen.
1. Christ had to be crucified for you. He was
2. You then need to be baptized “in the name of Christ”. Not Paul. And, baptism “in the name of Christ” is FOR the remission of sins. Acts 2:38 You weren’t, so therefore you are not “of Christ” or belong to Christ.
This is how you show somebody that they “took something out of context”.

Anyone who can read the word can figure out what is essential for salvation - belief in Christ and receiving Him as Savior.

It's not hard, unless a person is unsaved. Then it could be hard because satan lies to people.....

Where does the Bible say that?
I see the Bible saying....
...He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
...Unless you repent you will all likewise perish
...Unless you confess me before men I won’t confess you before my father which is in heaven.
...repent and be baptized FOR the remission of sins
...arise, be baptized and WASH away thy sins, calling on the name of the lord.
...whosoever shall call on the name of the lord shall be saved.
...baptism doth also now save us
...receive the WORD which is able to SAVE your soul.
...unless one is born of water and the Spirit they cannot enter the kingdom.
...we are saved by hope
...we are saved by the blood
...we are saved by his life
...we are saved by grace
...there is no condemnation to those who are “in Christ”
...we are baptized “into Christ”.
All of these are verses in the Bible. All of these are verses you reject, because you said we are saved by “faith alone” and clearly when you look above you’ll see salvation is by NOTHING “alone”!!

 

[Philip James]

If your not Catholic or Eastern Orthodox your Protestant.

broad definition of Protestant: a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church

Sooooo you ARE protestant

Mary

With respect sister,
I do not think we cannot call our Orthodox brethren Catholic. They participate in the feast, just as we. Their bishops hold valid authority just as we.

Any dispute between their bishops and the bishop of Rome is between them and the Holy Spirit in my opinion..

And was not not this split in the body foreshadowed by the the split of Israel and Judah? The difference being, that the Churches have remained faithful.

Are we not like the two sides of the body? connected in the head and in the heart?

Another thread asked who are the 'two olive trees' and I held my peace, but to you You I'll affirm plainly: they are the Eastern and Western Church, the Orthodox and Catholic Church! And I for one, love them with all my heart!

I am very encouraged that the efforts of John Paul the Great and Benedict XVI will not be in vain, and that Holy Spirit will indeed take the two sticks and make them one.

Pray for the unity of the Church!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[4Jesus]

Well, that's all fine and dandy and, I will raise you microouterdenominalationalism :)

Hehehe, you're microouterdenominalationalism is no match for my quantum-non-denominationalism ;)

 

[4Jesus]

Hi Naomi25, sorry for the delay in the response.

Well this thread was ok for a little while. It was worth a shot...

I take comfort from the fact that in Revelation we are told that an 'innumerable multitude' was seen. From all tribes, tongues and nations.
That tells me that we'll do alright. Despite our bumbling, sniping, erroneous futzing...we won't get lonely in heaven.

I'm with you on the comforting of that idea. I always thought of that verse in Revelation to mean any person in this world could be joined to Jesus (the bride, if you will), regardless of how they were brought up and where, and to who; I never did think it applied to those already Christian, but this context gives it additional meaning.

Well...I hadn't given the wider terminology much thought...so I'm not in any way planting my flag on this hill. But I suppose I would say that perhaps the difference between Protestant and Catholism might be best served by calling them differing 'sects' of Christianity...that's a little broader. And then, as you say, within each of them they both have different denominations.
Maybe?

Sure? Why not. The earliest Christians were known as the 'sect of the Nazarene', which I'm thinking of joining cause my present denom, the non-denom Christians, are a denom too ;) I can't make up my mind now, arggghhh, am I a non-denom, or an anti-denom! Ugh, I'll just go with 'sect of the Nazarene' lol

Preach!

No way sister-in-Sect-of-the-Nazarene (ha, like what I did there ), I'm not good enough for that...you have much better linguistics and sound like a much better public speaker - you got this! ;)

Yup. And as it gets easier to travel, and easier to 'church plant' or watch stuff online...and as people get more and more comfortable 'asserting' their beliefs (we're all armchair warriors now, only our armchair are invisible!), we don't, I think, feel like we have to smooth things over with our brothers and sisters; agree for the peace, live in accord with all, as Paul says. We can just lay it down 'my way or the highway' and then get in our cars or demand a Facebook vote.
It's getting a little nuts. We had a bit of drama hit our church this year and it's never really had it before. What do you do when people you just thought were decent, sensible people do silly, unbiblical, scratch your head stuff? I dunno.

Go back to the basics? That'd be my starting place - the foundation. Then rebuild to where the dilemma is, to then narrow it back down to the basics - lots of downs, then ups, and down, then up again lol.

I often think about these people. And it always weighs heavily on my heart. Because...I suppose no one ever REALLY knows if they are right or they are wrong, in these matters. We all do what we think is right...what we believe the bible is saying and where we believe the Spirit is leading. And I suppose we can do no more. And, I truly believe that if we come at God's word and Spirit with a truly open and willing heart to the truth, God will not turn us away. But....

It does weigh on me too. And that was the reason for the thread I guess. Jesus is out to love us and save us, so what do doctrinal matters...matter, if they don't undo the essentials, especially those that can be corrected easily once we are in His presence, and His earthly Kingdom thereafter.

But as you said, we won't know until we're with Him, if we're with Him of course. It's up to Him ultimately.

But. I don't think just being sure and being honest about what you believe will save someone. Look at the Jews. They believe in the right God. They truly believe they are following the right path, the path of their forefathers, the path that YHWH laid out for them. But...
I think there are many, many people who truly know Jesus and are saved who get non-essential stuff wrong. And I would hope, as I do for myself...that they never stop searching for God's truth. But, I think they are okay. After all, it is upon Jesus' work and life that they are saved. But I also think there are some out there who call upon Jesus name, but don't really know him. They don't see his grace, don't accept it, or him, as he really is. And, as he told us, HE is the only way, the only truth and the only life. If we don't get him right, we get everything else wrong automatically.
So, yeah...it weighs on me, but I tend to think that's the only biblical conclusion. I hope I'm wrong.

Agreed. Ugh, the Jews, they're killing me. I've heard that they are forbidden to read the NT. Which prevents them from knowing the new covenant, which is Jesus. And he who denies the Son, denies the Father 1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." So they're anti-christ at the moment, disobediant to their God that they acknowledge, but also are denying in reality. I think this is one of the reasons for the events in Revelation - to turn to the Messiah, well, at least some of them I guess.

As to the Christians that don't really know Him, I agree too. Jesus' own words did say that "few find it" in Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.".

It's a lot to handle, for sure. Again it's ultimately up to Jesus, so there's comfort there I think in that I know/have faith, that He will do right regardless of my understanding (or lack thereof).

Oh, golly. I might need a whole day to think of the essentials. Off the top of my head though: The Trinity, Incarnation of Christ (God-man), Salvation by grace through faith in Christ, physical death on the cross of Christ, bodily resurrection of Christ, physical return of Christ. I may have left some out.
I don't think we have to follow everything to a 't'. I think even though we're regenerated it would be impossible for us to. We have the capability to WANT to not sin, not the abilty to completely stop sinning, if you catch the difference. I think what God wants from us in this life is to always be taking steps towards becoming more Christ-like. Loving God, loving others, becoming more holy. It's a life-long process that we'll never perfect...something to look forward to in eternity...that moment when we don't need to struggle anymore, we can just look into the face of our Lord and be at peace!

I'd go even more basic, though inclusive of what you're saying. I brought them up in the original post though, so no need for me to have a reason to keep blathering on...;)

Agreed overall.

I dream of that day! I cannot wait for that day, for the struggle to be over. And, and, no more taxes!

 

[Nancy]

Hehehe, you're microouterdenominalationalism is no match for my quantum-non-denominationalism ;)

Okay, I cry UNCLE and, you win!

 

[4Jesus]

Okay, I cry UNCLE and, you win!

Aw c'mon, it wasn't about winning; wasn't it about how far we could keep it going (since we had 'endless chips')?

I know you've got at least one more in there; the others were too good to not have any more now ;)

 

[Soverign Grace]

Maybe they felt they were fulfilling Scripture: Matthew 18:17

Forgot that one.

 

[illini1959]

Ummmm.....they said the same thing as you are saying now soooo you are exactly like them.

Who said the same thing as I did and who am I "exactly" like?

Sooooo once again I will ask the same question but add your words to it: Why do all the Protestant denominations that believe they follow Christ (just like you believe you are following Christ) have different doctrines on "what is essential for salvation"?

Patient Mary

Well, Patient Mary, I told you already - I can't answer for what Methodists or Lutherans, etc., believe or preach. I find a church whose statement of faith is scriptural - based on doctrine found in the bible - and go there. I've attended Presbyterian, Disciples of Christ, Baptist churches and they've all had the same beliefs.

I know I'm following Christ.

 

[illini1959]

Thank you illini,

Who decides what the doctrines are relating to salvation?

Mary

Let's pretend you've passed away (peacefully) :) and you're standing at the gate of heaven and you're asked why you should be allowed to enter.

What's your answer?

 

[Marymog]

With respect sister,
I do not think we cannot call our Orthodox brethren Catholic.
Pray for the unity of the Church!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Thank you.

I don't see where I called them Catholic.

What I wrote is: If your not Catholic OR Eastern Orthodox your Protestant.

The "OR" separates the two into distinct categories.

I agree with the rest of your post......And Peace be with you!

 

[Marymog]

Who said the same thing as I did and who am I "exactly" like?

Ummmmmm.......the men YOU referenced.