Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

[Bobby Jo]

Ya, you just try to assail me, ...

Did you read how Jesus rebuked the disciples when they wanted to call down fire from heaven against the Samaritans? And you're doing the same against others who are not part of your "Religion"/"Denomination", but you're exempt from Jesus' rebuke?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’​

And such shall be for the Sadducees, Pharisees, and "christians" who disobey Jesus.

Bobby Jo

 

[tzcho2]

Did you read how Jesus rebuked the disciples when they wanted to call down fire from heaven against the Samaritans? And you're doing the same against others who are not part of your "Religion"/"Denomination", but you're exempt from Jesus' rebuke?

Matt. 7:23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’​

And such shall be for the Sadducees, Pharisees, and "christians" who disobey Jesus.

Bobby Jo

A false faith is not Faith at all. Jesus said your either with me or against me. Matt 12:30:"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters ."
FYI, The pharisees equate to the religious Palpal authority & priesthood of the RCC that preaches it's own Traditions over the true gospel , and what the Bible & Jesus preaches. I have witnessed it first hand many many times attending with family members that are RC. My opinions are based upon first hand knowledge & knowledge of the RCC liturgy.
Your use of scriptures in this case is out of context and does not apply..
Too bad that you care more about your own personal resentments & grinding that axe that you carry around concerning your anger towards your protestant churches in your past & their leadership --that you can't respond rationally and knowledgeably to this thread but only Project your past issues.

It is evident when people don't care about other innocent people being lead away from Christ's gospel.
I do , I have family in the RCC who have died never knowing the Lord because they put their faith in the institution of the RCC instead.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

A false faith is not Faith at all. Jesus said your either with me or against me. Matt 12:30:"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters ."
FYI, The pharisees equate to the religious Palpal authority & priesthood of the RCC that preaches it's own Traditions over the true gospel , and what the Bible & Jesus preaches. I have witnessed it first hand many many times attending with family members that are RC. My opinions are based upon first hand knowledge & knowledge of the RCC liturgy.
Your use of scriptures in this case is out of context and does not apply..
Too bad that you care more about your own personal resentments & grinding that axe that you carry around concerning your anger towards your protestant churches in your past & their leadership --that you can't respond rationally and knowledgeably to this thread but only Project your past issues.

It is evident when people don't care about other innocent people being lead away from Christ's gospel.
I do , I have family in the RCC who have died never knowing the Lord because they put their faith in the institution of the RCC instead.

tzcho2, are there any kids that are saved in your congregation?

 

[Marymog]

I guess you deleted my points because you didn't want to deal with all the false teachings of the RC church that I pointed out.......

Simply not true....You provided your opinion so I simply deleted your opinions.

 

[Marymog]

I guess you deleted my points because you didn't want to deal with all the false teachings of the RC church that I pointed out.

Sorry but there is nothing "illogical" about what I said. It's the facts of the Reformation which you are choosing to ignore. The Holy Bible scripture - i.e. the 66 books of the Bible is what our Christian theology & Christian doctrines are based squarely upon. Christianity is not based upon the Human Religious dogma & Traditions of the RC church. RC's who study the Bible have their eyes opened like Martin Luther did & are lead by the Holy Spirit to become new Protestants & get baptized with the Holy Spirit. God calls them out of Roman Catholicism and into His spiritual church.
Btw, it is always a good thing to stick to what the Word of God only, Jesus gave us examples of that in the Bible , where He read scripture in the synagogues, spoke on the scriptures & when He was tested by Satan in the desert , Jesus quoted the scripture. The Bible tells us it is God-breathed and sharper then a two-edged sword....& to separate from False teachings that teach contrary to God's Word. Hebrews 4:12 " 12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edgedsword, it pierces even to dividing soul and spirit,joints and marrow. It judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight; everything is uncovered and exposed before the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.…"
The RC church added dogma to give itself more power & spiritual authority over the people and to make money off people.

The RC church was selling indulgencies to absolve sin, do you get how wrong that is? The Lord JESUS is the only one who can forgive us our sins & pay the penalty for us through His sacrifice on the cross & make us right with GOD the Father. The RC church was cheating people out of money & lying to the people, Martin Luther was a monk and a scholar, he knew it was immoral and an anathema to give a false gospel to the people as Apostle Paul wrote Galatians 1:8 " Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel fromheaven should preach a gospel contrary to the onewe preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…"
The majority of the denominations all agree on the basic Christian doctrines and it's usually only the minor interpretations that are disagreed upon, they united under Christ. The Church of Christ , as I mentioned before is across Christiandom made up of people from many churches who are born again from above , Salvation is through grace alone , by faith alone, in Jesus alone as the scripture states.

If the CC is the purveyor of false teachings then please tell me.....Who is not a false teacher? When you give me un-deniable evidence they (whichever church or person you choose) are not a false teacher I will follow them;)

Once again you make an illogical statement. Your entire post is a fallacy but this one sentence destroys your entire theory: RC's who study the Bible have their eyes opened like Martin Luther did & are lead by the Holy Spirit to become new Protestants & get baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Your theory suggest if one follows the teachings of the CC then their eyes are closed and they are not lead by the Holy Spirit. If one is protestant their eyes are opened and they are led by the Holy Spirit. HOWEVER, every protestant church/person teaches/believes many DIFFERENT things from one passage of scripture. Soooooo is the Holy Spirit confused or you and your ilk?

Also, scripture contains more than 66 books. Since scripture does not contain a table of contents MEN, guided by the Holy Spirit, had to decide what belonged in Scripture. You are following the 500 year tradition of the Reformers (who discussed removing some NT books also) instead of the 2,000 year tradition/teaching of your Christian Church. And you accuse me of following men? Fascinating....

It is thru TRADITION that you accept a certain number of books and it is thru TRADITION that we attribute some of those books to a certain writer since they are not signed. Sooooooo PLEASE don't tell me you don't accept the tradition of The Church....because you do. You just didn't know you were doing it because you don't know your Christian history.

I agree with you. There were men in The Church that were sinners. Just like in your church. That does not make the Churches DOCTRINE or DOGMA wrong.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

You're admittance and confession that your pre-eminent authority in faith and practice is an ecclesiastical body made up of finite mortal error-prone men and women ...sinners like yourself...is proof positive that your church is antichrist...it has taken the place of Christ.
When we consider the whore of Revelation 17 and note that on her head is written name's' of blasphemy, we must consider the question, "what is blasphemy? The answer is found in a couple of places in the gospels, basically it means claiming the power to forgive sin...claiming to be equal to God...claiming to have the prerogatives in authority that belong only to God.
We read that this antichrist system blasphemes against God, His sanctuary, and those in heaven. In other words, by claiming to have authority that belongs only to God, this antichrist seeks to set up a rival system that is a counterfeit to the true God, the gospel, and His church. There is only one place I know where can be found such a system, that claims the power to forgive sin...has set up a false sanctuary with a priesthood, an altar, and way to heaven that incorporates all manner of traditions and superstitions, as well as a rival head in charge over all, the pope. Nothing personal Mary, but that is Antichrist...a rival instead of the true God, and His true gospel.

Should I surrender to everything my church tells me to do? Absolutely not. If it agrees with the purpose for church...the publication of truth, then no problem. If it is in contradiction to truth, then my obligation is to God and Him alone, regardless of what the church says. And yes, I am and always will be the one to decide "what is truth". God wants no-one to leave his mind and conscience to the control of others.

I have The Church backed by 2,000 years of teaching and you have YOU as your pre-eminent authority in faith and practice.

 

[Marymog]

Ok ty miss m, enjoy the honey
Ps you know what "Mary" means right
well Maria I mean

I don't care what Maria means.....;)

Mary

 

[tzcho2]

If the CC is the purveyor of false teachings then please tell me.....Who is not a false teacher? When you give me un-deniable evidence they (whichever church or person you choose) are not a false teacher I will follow them;)

Once again you make an illogical statement. Your entire post is a fallacy but this one sentence destroys your entire theory: RC's who study the Bible have their eyes opened like Martin Luther did & are lead by the Holy Spirit to become new Protestants & get baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Your theory suggest if one follows the teachings of the CC then their eyes are closed and they are not lead by the Holy Spirit. If one is protestant their eyes are opened and they are led by the Holy Spirit. HOWEVER, every protestant church/person teaches/believes many DIFFERENT things from one passage of scripture. Soooooo is the Holy Spirit confused or you and your ilk?

Also, scripture contains more than 66 books. Since scripture does not contain a table of contents MEN, guided by the Holy Spirit, had to decide what belonged in Scripture. You are following the 500 year tradition of the Reformers (who discussed removing some NT books also) instead of the 2,000 year tradition/teaching of your Christian Church. And you accuse me of following men? Fascinating....

It is thru TRADITION that you accept a certain number of books and it is thru TRADITION that we attribute some of those books to a certain writer since they are not signed. Sooooooo PLEASE don't tell me you don't accept the tradition of The Church....because you do. You just didn't know you were doing it because you don't know your Christian history.

I agree with you. There were men in The Church that were sinners. Just like in your church. That does not make the Churches DOCTRINE or DOGMA wrong.

Mary

My opinion is reasoned where as yours is based upon emotion & membership in the RCC.

 

[Marymog]

My opinion is reasoned where as yours is based upon emotion & membership in the RCC.

You failed to answer my question. The reason you failed is because opinions, such as the ones you have articulated, are not based on facts.

The FACT is you accept some of the traditions/teachings of The Catholic Church and you didn't even know you were doing it.

The FACT is you accept the SOME of the traditions/teachings of the Reformation.

Thank you for your time. At least you were honest enough to admit that you have given your opinion. I prefer to stick to facts.

Mary

 

[amadeus]

Southern names are not in line with most the country.

Although I've never heard of Bobby Jo for a man.

My first name is commonly Southern. The normal for the rest of the country differs slightly.

It has give me a lot of problems over the years on legal and other documents.

One of my best friends was named Bobby Jo, born in Texas to a mother of Mexican ancestry and a father of German ancestry. He was a little man of physical stature [under 5 feet tall and not much over 100lbs]. He went to Germany in the 1930's with his parents to visit his paternal family. His father, a naturized US citizen was forcibly inducted into the German army and died on the Eastern front in WWII. He had been required to join the Hitler Youth but before getting deep into that his paternal grandfather, a captain of a merchant ship, secretly transported him and his mother to Sweden in 1941 before the United State entered the war. That was Bobby Jo. I still have several of his handwritten notebooks from his Bible studies. He was a man of God. He was born in 1926 and died in 2009.

 

[tzcho2]

If the CC is the purveyor of false teachings then please tell me.....Who is not a false teacher? When you give me un-deniable evidence they (whichever church or person you choose) are not a false teacher I will follow them;)

Once again you make an illogical statement. Your entire post is a fallacy but this one sentence destroys your entire theory: RC's who study the Bible have their eyes opened like Martin Luther did & are lead by the Holy Spirit to become new Protestants & get baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Your theory suggest if one follows the teachings of the CC then their eyes are closed and they are not lead by the Holy Spirit. If one is protestant their eyes are opened and they are led by the Holy Spirit. HOWEVER, every protestant church/person teaches/believes many DIFFERENT things from one passage of scripture. Soooooo is the Holy Spirit confused or you and your ilk?

Also, scripture contains more than 66 books. Since scripture does not contain a table of contents MEN, guided by the Holy Spirit, had to decide what belonged in Scripture. You are following the 500 year tradition of the Reformers (who discussed removing some NT books also) instead of the 2,000 year tradition/teaching of your Christian Church. And you accuse me of following men? Fascinating....

It is thru TRADITION that you accept a certain number of books and it is thru TRADITION that we attribute some of those books to a certain writer since they are not signed. Sooooooo PLEASE don't tell me you don't accept the tradition of The Church....because you do. You just didn't know you were doing it because you don't know your Christian history.

I agree with you. There were men in The Church that were sinners. Just like in your church. That does not make the Churches DOCTRINE or DOGMA wrong.

Mary

I posted in answer to your question to me as to "why I believed the Reformation was a good thing" - i.e. godly thing Last Friday which you ignored my very reasonable concerns worth repeating since you ignored them, deleted them, saying "that they didn't matter." I think they do matter.
"Why was the Reformation not only a good thing, imo but , it was a movement of GOD the Father to cleanse Christianity from the Roman heresies & False doctrines.
There is So much wrong with the RCC where to start? The RCC denies the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The reformation by Luther was a response to all the corrupt heretical teachings of the Pope , the RCC , that promotes ITSELF & IT'S traditions as being the infallible divine authority
while, ignoring what the BIBLE states about the Word of GOD being the only inerrant God-breathed written teachings & divine authority.
RCC shows itself in direct opposition to Bible scripture & the Gospel which is why it loves to denounce scripture as possessing the sole GOD given authority.
The Roman Catholic Church is in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus, & what the apostles taught & just so, so much of what is written in the Word of God that the RCC imo, is unrecognizable as Christian when compared to the Biblical churches as described in the scripture &
Fyi, the RCC is not "The Church" of Christ mentioned in the Bible which , btw, is made up of the true born again faithful followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. "The Church" mentioned by Christ and Apostle Paul for eg., is made up of individuals that are recognized by GOD as having the indwelling Holy Spirit, ie. born again from above, it is not a physical church , nor a physical denomination , but it the spiritual collective church of Jesus Christ which will be raise with HIM. RC's have difficulty with this teaching & Biblical truth, because they have not studied the Bible as the ultimate inerrant authority that 2Tim says is God-breathed.
The Rcc have placed their faith in the RCC (teachings & traditions) instead.
The worst corruption is that RCC denies the one true gospel of Jesus Christ that is taught in the scriptures.
The gospel of Jesus is Justification by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.
* RCC preaches a False Gospel of faith plus works.
It promotes the usurping of Christ Jesus authority by it's false dogma about Mary as perfect & sinless, as a co-redemptrix, idol-worship/veneration of Mary/ other other RC images, Rome preaches intercession of RC saints.
Rome attacks the Word of God and rejects the God given authority of scripture taught by Jesus & the Apostles.
The Roman Priesthood usurps the Word of God claiming their man-written traditions & POPE to have (equal or more) authority over the word of God & gospel of Jesus.
Rome adds their own writing as equal to scripture.
Rome teaches the Popes & Priesthood can forgive sins.
The RCC has merchandized images & used the Christian teachings to gain profit and power.

The RCC is forever twisting & misrepresenting scripture to bolster its own agenda & power as we continue to see by the present Pope's bogus beliefs. Nothing new under the sun....
Ironically Rome arrogantly calls itself "the" church which it rips off this teaching from the Bible scripture but at the same time denies the scriptures & teaching of the Biblical church claiming Rome is equal or above those teachings.

 

[tzcho2]

You failed to answer my question. The reason you failed is because opinions, such as the ones you have articulated, are not based on facts.

The FACT is you accept some of the traditions/teachings of The Catholic Church and you didn't even know you were doing it.

The FACT is you accept the SOME of the traditions/teachings of the Reformation.

Thank you for your time. At least you were honest enough to admit that you have given your opinion. I prefer to stick to facts.

Mary

Actually, that is Not true. I did answer you , but you deleted my points so I posted them again. It is a fact that the Rcc teaches a Works gospel that doesn't lead to salvation. The bible teaches it is only by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus on on calvary that saves. Not to mention the infant baptism, which also doesn't save, and isn't what Jesus taught us.

 

[Marymog]

Actually, that is Not true. I did answer you , but you deleted my points so I posted them again. It is a fact that the Rcc teaches a Works gospel that doesn't lead to salvation. The bible teaches it is only by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus on on calvary that saves. Not to mention the infant baptism, which also doesn't save, and isn't what Jesus taught us.

Scripture says even baptism doth also now save us. You say it doesn't save. Your OPINION is opposite of Scripture.

Can you see why it is difficult to have a serious conversation with you when you spout your opinion instead of facts?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I posted in answer to your question to me as to "why I believed the Reformation was a good thing" - i.e. godly thing Last Friday which you ignored my very reasonable concerns worth repeating since you ignored them, deleted them, saying "that they didn't matter." I think they do matter.
"Why was the Reformation not only a good thing, imo but , it was a movement of GOD the Father to cleanse Christianity from the Roman heresies & False doctrines.
There is So much wrong with the RCC where to start? The RCC denies the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The reformation by Luther was a response to all the corrupt heretical teachings of the Pope , the RCC , that promotes ITSELF & IT'S traditions as being the infallible divine authority
while, ignoring what the BIBLE states about the Word of GOD being the only inerrant God-breathed written teachings & divine authority.
RCC shows itself in direct opposition to Bible scripture & the Gospel which is why it loves to denounce scripture as possessing the sole GOD given authority.
The Roman Catholic Church is in direct opposition to the teachings of Jesus, & what the apostles taught & just so, so much of what is written in the Word of God that the RCC imo, is unrecognizable as Christian when compared to the Biblical churches as described in the scripture &
Fyi, the RCC is not "The Church" of Christ mentioned in the Bible which , btw, is made up of the true born again faithful followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. "The Church" mentioned by Christ and Apostle Paul for eg., is made up of individuals that are recognized by GOD as having the indwelling Holy Spirit, ie. born again from above, it is not a physical church , nor a physical denomination , but it the spiritual collective church of Jesus Christ which will be raise with HIM. RC's have difficulty with this teaching & Biblical truth, because they have not studied the Bible as the ultimate inerrant authority that 2Tim says is God-breathed.
The Rcc have placed their faith in the RCC (teachings & traditions) instead.
The worst corruption is that RCC denies the one true gospel of Jesus Christ that is taught in the scriptures.
The gospel of Jesus is Justification by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone.
* RCC preaches a False Gospel of faith plus works.
It promotes the usurping of Christ Jesus authority by it's false dogma about Mary as perfect & sinless, as a co-redemptrix, idol-worship/veneration of Mary/ other other RC images, Rome preaches intercession of RC saints.
Rome attacks the Word of God and rejects the God given authority of scripture taught by Jesus & the Apostles.
The Roman Priesthood usurps the Word of God claiming their man-written traditions & POPE to have (equal or more) authority over the word of God & gospel of Jesus.
Rome adds their own writing as equal to scripture.
Rome teaches the Popes & Priesthood can forgive sins.
The RCC has merchandized images & used the Christian teachings to gain profit and power.

The RCC is forever twisting & misrepresenting scripture to bolster its own agenda & power as we continue to see by the present Pope's bogus beliefs. Nothing new under the sun....
Ironically Rome arrogantly calls itself "the" church which it rips off this teaching from the Bible scripture but at the same time denies the scriptures & teaching of the Biblical church claiming Rome is equal or above those teachings.

Your OPINION is that division in Christianity, which is what the Reformation caused, is a good thing. That is a bizarre opinion and OPPOSITE of what Scripture says and what Jesus prayed for.

Can you see why if is difficult to have a serious conversation with you when you deny FACTS and spout your OPINION?

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Actually, that is Not true. I did answer you , but you deleted my points so I posted them again. It is a fact that the Rcc teaches a Works gospel that doesn't lead to salvation. The bible teaches it is only by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus on on calvary that saves. Not to mention the infant baptism, which also doesn't save, and isn't what Jesus taught us.

Your OPINION is that division in Christianity, which is what the Reformation caused, is a good thing. That is a bizarre opinion and OPPOSITE of what Scripture says and what Jesus prayed for.

Can you see why if is difficult to have a serious conversation with you when you deny FACTS and spout your OPINION?

Mary

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[tzcho2]

Scripture says even baptism doth also now save us. You say it doesn't save. Your OPINION is opposite of Scripture.

Can you see why it is difficult to have a serious conversation with you when you spout your opinion instead of facts?

Mary

I'm afraid that is just a misunderstanding of the teaching in 1 Peter 3:21" 21 The water baptism is symbolic of the spiritual baptism followers of Jesus receive. Peter is speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is symbolized by the baptism that Jesus got by John. Note also in the scriptures that Jesus was not baptizing infants. People were getting baptized after they made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ as His followers. Jesus said to his disciples: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," (Matthew 28:19).

1Peter 3:21 " And this water SYMBOLIZES "the baptism" that now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It ( the baptism that ) saves you (is ) through the ressurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter is speaking of being born again from above. The baptism symbolizes dying with Christ and being resurrected with Him."

 

[bbyrd009]

"The baptism symbolizes dying with Christ and being resurrected with Him."

 

[Marymog]

Pot, meet kettle.

Pot and kettle meet troll ;)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Pot and kettle meet troll ;)

I'm a person who's
1) not here to convince everyone else my views are correct
2) here to really listen to each other, better understand, and better love each other. Even if I totally disagree with people.

Though I do admittedly find your and tzcho2 going at it like twins to be funny.

 

[Marymog]

I'm afraid that is just a misunderstanding of the teaching in 1 Peter 3:21" 21 The water baptism is symbolic of the spiritual baptism followers of Jesus receive. Peter is speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit which is symbolized by the baptism that Jesus got by John. Note also in the scriptures that Jesus was not baptizing infants. People were getting baptized after they made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ as His followers. Jesus said to his disciples: "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," (Matthew 28:19).

1Peter 3:21 " And this water SYMBOLIZES "the baptism" that now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It ( the baptism that ) saves you (is ) through the ressurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter is speaking of being born again from above. The baptism symbolizes dying with Christ and being resurrected with Him."

hi,

Nice twisting of Scripture. Your "symbol" teaching is about 500 years old. You are following the tradition of Protestant men. I am sure there is no way to change your mind on that passage so we should look at other passages concerning baptism.

Get up, be baptized and wash your sins..... If ones sins are washed away, wouldn't they be saved?

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”....Unless you are born of water and Spirit (which is what happens in baptism) you can't go to heaven. Symbolic? Hmmmm.....horrible theory and horrible opinion

Writings from the 1st and 2nd century Christians DISAGREE with your THEORY. (Hermas, Justin Martyr, Tertullian)

Sooooo who should I believe? You and your opinion that you have presented 2,000 years after the death of the last Apostle or the people who lived in the time of the Apostles? I think you know whom I choose.....;)

Have you read what the Didache says about baptism?

Mary