Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

[Marymog]

It doesn't matter if 99% of people reject Christ, He still wins.

If "winning" is a majority of people not following his teachings I would hate to see losing ;)

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If "winning" is a majority of people not following his teachings I would hate to see losing ;)

It's not a numbers game: God doesn't see it that way, and neither should we.

 

[Marymog]

I admit I must go back and read all the other posts here...I just saw the subject title here.

Who's "winning?"

It has already been won.
1 Peter 1:19-
19 "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

Rev 13.8
" And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. "

As the saying goes...."God Win's...I have read the end of the Book." :)

Thank you BG.

If "it has already been won" then why do most NOT follow Him?

BTW.....All that dwell upon this earth don't worship Him but I think what you are saying at the end, He does win?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

It's not a numbers game: God doesn't see it that way, and neither should we.

God doesn't see it that way? He seems to want all of us to be one according to Scripture. Maybe he does see it that way.

What do you make of John 17:21? That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

We seem to be going backward; losing more souls than we are winning. Look at the rise of Islam.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

God doesn't see it that way? He seems to want all of us to be one according to Scripture. Maybe he does see it that way.

What do you make of John 17:21? That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:21 isn't fulfilled by popular vote. God triumphs over Satan regardless of head count. It's not a numbers game.

But, if you are concerned and want to share your faith with other people (which is a GREAT thing to do), may I suggest that the best missionary work is done by somebody who doesn't rely on stereotypes or soapboxes, but instead is willing to be a true friend: one who truly see others & listens to others, and is therefore truly seen and listened to by others.

 

[Nancy]

We know the end of the story :) Satan has already been defeated in Gods view- IMHO. I just think it's the generation, loves sin and darkness too much to submit to some god. I see 2 Timothy 3 happening before our eyes (for decades now). I could not say that Satan could win against God because I don't see it as a competition. Satan will be just as weak as any other unsaved person, IMO. My take is also that there will be very few who will be saved.

 

[Nancy]

God doesn't see it that way? He seems to want all of us to be one according to Scripture. Maybe he does see it that way.

What do you make of John 17:21? That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

We seem to be going backward; losing more souls than we are winning. Look at the rise of Islam.

I agree...Christians, all of us will be held accountable for lack of prayer, lack of obeying His command of The Great Commission. Way too many Christians are lazy and self-serving. Shouldn't we have a passion, a sense of urgency to be on our knees for the saving of lost souls?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I have struggled with this question and am not sure how to say that the teachings of Christ are winning. Even though some of the teachings are not anti-Christian teachings they don't conform to Christ teachings. There are over 7 billion people in this world, however, Christians only make up a little over 2 billion people. More people believe in a teaching that is not of Christ.

Is Satan winning?

What is winning? The majority? Having more numbers? I ask because humanly that is the way we think.

We know that isn't really God's way. Jesus stated the broad road leads to destruction and many are on it; Matthew 7:13-14.

Christ is victorious, he has set out to save his people from their sins; Matthew 1:21. And he will save every single one!

 

[tzcho2]

I have struggled with this question and am not sure how to say that the teachings of Christ are winning. Even though some of the teachings are not anti-Christian teachings they don't conform to Christ teachings. There are over 7 billion people in this world, however, Christians only make up a little over 2 billion people. More people believe in a teaching that is not of Christ.

Is Satan winning?

Have no doubt or fear God is on His throne and it is HE who has all power and authority & Satan is a defeated foe. The Bible is clear & the LORD God almighty , who knows the end from the beginning has told us exactly in the Bible scriptures what is happening in creation from the beginning to the end and He appointed HIS beloved Son, to pay for the sins of the world, Jesus who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. Jesus said told His disciples that He has gone to prepare a place for us. God gave Jesus the name above ALL names. God has already defeated Satan, but this is playing out in real time, as it is written in God's word. As for counting Christians, no one knows but God who are true born again believers, they are the Christians who are in dwelled by the Holy Spirit, who will be raised with Him. They are across many denominations. They are the ones whose names are written in the Lambs book of Life. The anti-Christ cannot win , he is not even on the world stage yet. The Bible tells us "the" Anti-Christ will not appear until the falling away in the Church happens first & the restrainer is removed. I believe we are living in the last days and this generation shall see Christ's return.

 

[Marymog]

John 17:21 isn't fulfilled by popular vote. God triumphs over Satan regardless of head count. It's not a numbers game.

But, if you are concerned and want to share your faith with other people (which is a GREAT thing to do), may I suggest that the best missionary work is done by somebody who doesn't rely on stereotypes or soapboxes, but instead is willing to be a true friend: one who truly see others & listens to others, and is therefore truly seen and listened to by others.

Hi Jane....I only gave the stats. Disregard them if you want....Right now it does not appear the head count is going in Christ's direction.

Jesus and the Apostles saw others and listened to them. When those people were wrong they let them know they were wrong. The Council of Jerusalem is a good example.....1 Corinthians 11:18 is another example.....there are many other examples in Scripture but I think you get the gist.

But you are suggesting that I shouldn't let others know when they are wrong and that I should just listen them.....keep my mouth shut? I disagree with you and so does Scripture (Matthew 18:15 ). What you call a soap box I call telling the Truth and correcting error of men who's ears have been tickled by heretical teachings....of which Scripture also speaks of.

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But you are suggesting that I shouldn't let others know when they are wrong and that I should just listen them.....keep my mouth shut?

No.
In fact I said the opposite: it is a great thing to share, and it is best done when we listen to others and truly see them. This better facilities them listening to us and truly seeing us. If either group shuts their ears, gets egotistical, or does not truly care, then any message has practically zero chance of coming across.

 

[Marymog]

What is winning? The majority? Having more numbers? I ask because humanly that is the way we think.

We know that isn't really God's way. Jesus stated the broad road leads to destruction and many are on it; Matthew 7:13-14.

Christ is victorious, he has set out to save his people from their sins; Matthew 1:21. And he will save every single one!

Thank you Preacher,

Jesus prayed, I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one..... so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

It seems thru history FEWER are believing thru our word and our preaching..... no matter how loud we shout. Look at the growth of Islam, agnostics and atheism. We are not all becoming one. The Reformation divided us and tore us apart even more.

So how is Christ being victorious? Christians used to speak as one for the first 1500 years of Christianity....since then we have been going backward.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It seems thru history FEWER are believing thru our word and our preaching..... no matter how loud we shout. Look at the growth of Islam, agnostics and atheism. We are not all becoming one. The Reformation divided us and tore us apart even more.

It's because you are shouting.
1 King 19:
11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

The voice of God is still and small.

 

[Marymog]

No.
In fact I said the opposite: it is a great thing to share, and it is best done when we listen to others and truly see them. This better facilities them listening to us and truly seeing us. If either group shuts their ears, gets egotistical, or does not truly care, then any message has practically zero chance of coming across.

Nope....You didn't say the opposite. You said: one who truly see others & listens to others, and is therefore truly seen and listened to by others. You didn't say anything about calling people out on their false beliefs. You only said listen to others and then they will listen to you.

So what if someone listens to you. If they don't follow thru (take action) on the TRUTH you gave them they can listen all they want....it's the action that counts. He requires action on His words....not just listening to them.

So lets go with your theory. I talk to someone and give them the Truth of Scripture. They are gracious and listen to me. They then talk and I am gracious and listen to them. They disagree with me. I disagree with them. We both were kind and listened to each other. What do we do? To whom do we go to settle the matter?

Mary

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Thank you Preacher,

Jesus prayed, I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one..... so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

It seems thru history FEWER are believing thru our word and our preaching..... no matter how loud we shout. Look at the growth of Islam, agnostics and atheism. We are not all becoming one. The Reformation divided us and tore us apart even more.

So how is Christ being victorious? Christians used to speak as one for the first 1500 years of Christianity....since then we have been going backward.

Hi Mary,

I disagree with you that the Reformation divided and tore "us" apart. It actually united the converted.

Also, no, professing believers did not "speak as one for 1500 years." Church history shows this to not be the case. There has always been schism, heresies, divisions, false gospels, false teachers since the beginning of the NT church.

Christ said there would be division, and truth causes division. Therefore I do not see the Reformation as a negative but a positive return to the Gospel.

Remember, unity isn't manufactured it is maintained, and it centers on truth, the truth of the Gospel, Ephesians 4:3. We are to guard this unity, not create it.

Can you make a biblical case for your OP that Christ is losing to Satan? I think you should start there.

 

[Marymog]

It's because you are shouting.
1 King 19:
11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:
12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

The voice of God is still and small.

Really? I am shouting when I tell you what The Church teaches? Hmmmmmm.....maybe you mean the bold type that I sometimes use? That is done for emphasis it is NOT shouting. ;)

Perhaps you mean something else when you suggest I am shouting?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Nope....You didn't say the opposite. You said: one who truly see others & listens to others, and is therefore truly seen and listened to by others.

Look at the underlined part Mary.
The one who bests listens to others is best heard by others.
That's what I was saying.

 

[Marymog]

Hi Mary,

I disagree with you that the Reformation divided and tore us apart. Also, no, professing believers did not speak as one for 1500 years. Church history shows it totnot be the case. There has always been schism, heresies, divisions, false gospels, false teachers since the beginning of the NT church. Christ said there would be division, and truth causes division. Therefore I do not see the Reformation as a negative but a positive return to the Gospel.

Remember, unity isn't manufactured it is maintained, and it centers on truth, the truth of the Gospel, Ephesians 4:3. We are to guard this unity, not create it.

Can you make a biblical case for your OP that Christ is losing to Satan? I think you should start there.

Hmmmmmm...... (in general) One Church with One voice and One doctrine and One recognized leader of the Christian Church BEFORE the Reformation and then AFTER the Reformation everyone that could read suddenly knew better than The Church and they were personally guided by the Holy Spirit. The result: Now we have thousands of Churches with 2, 3 or 4 different interpretations of the same passage of Scripture with all of those different interpretation's given to them by the Holy Spirit. And you don't think the Reformation divided us or tore us apart? Have you read your Christian History?

You can't have heresy, false teachers or false gospels unless there is One authority to decide if it is a heretical teaching or if one is a false teacher or even what is Scripture if there isn't One authority soooooo your destroyed your own theory in your own statement.

There is one Scripture with 77 books. It is what The Church, One Church with authority, that decided what was Scripture roughly 1700 years ago. The Reformation changed that to 66 books......soooooo are you sure the Reformation didn't divide us and tear us apart? One Church before the Reformation.....thousands of Churches with hundreds of different teachings after the Reformation. We no longer speak as One. That was a positive....not a negative?

Mary

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Hmmmmmm...... (in general) One Church with One voice and One doctrine and One recognized leader of the Christian Church BEFORE the Reformation and then AFTER the Reformation everyone that could read suddenly knew better than The Church and they were personally guided by the Holy Spirit...<snip>

No, sorry Mary, but your view isn't historically accurate.

I thank God for the Reformation, and it doesn't take much reading of Scripture to see that what you call "the church" was in error doctrinally and ruled in totalitarianism. History proves this.

I get what you're trying to promote: All is awry because not everyone is Catholic so if everyone were Catholic more would belong to Christ. No, Mary, more would be deceived because its gospel is not The Gospel.

I also get it that the moniker "Marymog" must mean "Mary, mother of God."

Anyhow, I've shown you biblically that Christ will save all he intends to save. You skipped right on over that truth. You don't really care about that, you just want everyone to be Catholic, so Biblical truth that dismantles your theory is overlooked because that really isn't on your agenda.

Please provide a biblical case for your OP or there is no reason to continue dialog.

 

[Marymog]

Look at the underlined part Mary.
The one who bests listens to others is best heard by others.
That's what I was saying.

Read my entire post instead of one portion of it......You have presented a nice theory.....it's not true.

So lets go with your theory. I talk to someone and give them the Truth of Scripture. They are gracious and listen to me. They then talk and give me their version of the Truth of Scripture. I am gracious and listen to them. They disagree with me. I disagree with them. We both were kind and fulfilled your criteria and listened to each other. Both of us have met your criteria for your theory "The one who bests listens to others....". HOWEVER neither of us are being heard by the other because we both believe we are right. We are both talking but not being heard by the other.....the other half of your theory.

What do we do? To whom do we go to settle the matter?