Christ Died for All

[Keiw]

John already found out who the 144,000 are and wrote it down.
Some would say it could be detrimental to anyone who adds or takes away from any revelation in his scroll.

But that up to you.


7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

John told us who would reign with Jesus as kings and priests. They were redeemed from EVERY tongue, EVERY tribe, EVERY people and EVERY nation.

Not just from the 12 tribes of Isreal, EVERY tribe.

Are you saying that the original sheep of that original fold are the lost sheep of the house of Israel Jesus spoke of?

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Yes from every tribe= spiritual Israel, not literal Israel.

 

[Keiw]

No,

Because 1 Corinthians is a letter to the Corinthian church calling them out for living in sexual sin. one so bad a man was sleeping with his fathers wife..

It also says greedy, idolators, thieves drunkards revilers, extortioners. So not just about sex.( 1Cor 6:9-11)-99% on Earth practice one of those things or serve a false god.

 

[Keiw]

You did not answer

how good is good enough. How many sins disqualify me, how many good deeds make me ok with God?

Jesus answered- Matt 7:21--One must live now over self doing Jesus' Fathers will in this satan ruled system. Jesus' Fathers will = Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY utterance from God= OT-NT studied hard, it never stops.

 

[Keiw]

How good is good enough?

can you answer. How can I know for a fact I am good enough to make it to heaven?

Only 144,000 are bought from the Earth-Rev 14:3= the little flock( Luke 12:32)--The great crowd( Rev 7:9- no man can number are the other sheep( John 10:16) who are not of that fold--Promised the Earth by Jesus-Matt 5:5--Psalm 37: 11,29 as well.

 

[Keiw]

They were in paradise. just like we will be when we die.. If we are a child of God

They are in Sheol=Hades=Grave awaiting the resurrection at Rev 20.

 

[Keiw]

HOW GOOD IS GOOD ENOUGH?

Just saying we must obey is not an answer. Everyone obeys to some extent. But what is the requirement. If you can not give us the requirement, then you have no hope. because you do not know yourself.

With ones whole soul, mind and heart ( Matt 22:37) is the effort ones declared righteous put up.

 

[Keiw]

He still called himself God.

Next...

Jesus NEVER claimed to be God.

 

[One 2 question]

Yes from every tribe= spiritual Israel, not literal Israel.

There are differing understandings with this revelation given to John. What is the truth. Can they all be right?

Are they descendants of the literal, physical children of Israel, Isaac's grandsons descendants? Or are these 12 specifically named tribes meaning something else?

Is Christ trying to send confusion yet again? As when speaking in parables so seeing they do not see. Hearing they do not hear. Giving rise to speculation, debate, arguments etc.

 

[One 2 question]

Yes from every tribe= spiritual Israel, not literal Israel.

Can this mean as it says, without adding any extra interpretation.

There seems to be 2 different flocks that are under the Good Shepherd.

Literal and spiritual Israel maybe.

One of the worst things one could do is to show contempt towards God's chosen people, the descendants of Jacob.

Paul made this fairly clear hey.

Rom 11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you misunderstood. I've seen this happen before. If someone says, Christ died for all- they are called a UNIVERSALIST? Baloney. Did you not read what @Eternally Grateful said immediately below that? I will quote-

"He who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already"

Sadly, People do not read. It is like they are programmed to search for key words and then respond to that key word.

Thats one of the reasons I hate ISMS, or reading according to what we are taught. not what is being said

 

[Hey You!]

Christ died for All; but I'm not a Universalist...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ died for All; but I'm not a Universalist...

Amen,

He did for all

But unbelievers will remain condemned.. Jesus made this clear also.

 

[Hey You!]

He died for All; and I'm a 5-Point Calvinist...

Well, kind of. I like Fullerism...

 

[Keiw]

There are differing understandings with this revelation given to John. What is the truth. Can they all be right?

Are they descendants of the literal, physical children of Israel, Isaac's grandsons descendants? Or are these 12 specifically named tribes meaning something else?

Is Christ trying to send confusion yet again? As when speaking in parables so seeing they do not see. Hearing they do not hear. Giving rise to speculation, debate, arguments etc.

Some from Jesus day make up the 144,000, some are alive today--the group as a whole= spiritual Israel-from every people, tribe, etc. which included gentiles.( called prostelytes back then) John had no idea what Jesus religion would be called in these last days. He referenced Israel( spiritual Israel) just meaning-Gods chosen.

 

[Keiw]

Can this mean as it says, without adding any extra interpretation.

There seems to be 2 different flocks that are under the Good Shepherd.

Literal and spiritual Israel maybe.

One of the worst things one could do is to show contempt towards God's chosen people, the descendants of Jacob.

Paul made this fairly clear hey.

Rom 11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved

God didn't cast them away as long as they did this-Matt 23:39--literal Israel religion outright refuses to this day. Jesus started a new religion=christian. He spoke to 7 churches( 1 religion) in Revelation, not to synagogues.