Catholic Preist Sings Song About Lucifer

[Robert Pate]

The "deeds of law" isn't about "what you do"; it's about what you do as under (the Mosaic) law.


Not true. The trouble Robert, is that you make these claims without providing any evidence to support your statements. Unless and until you provide evidence, all you're doing is giving us your opinion.

Again, not true. Unless and until you're willing to provide evidence of your claims, there's nothing to discuss.

Please show me any Catholic literature that says Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, or that Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

 

[Robert Pate]

Or anti-Lutheran threads...or anti-Jewish threads...yadda, yadda, yadda.

The thing I don't understand is, why aren't they looking this stuff up for themselves through reputable sources? I mean, why not go to someplace online like Catholic Answers...or the Catholic Catechism...

It's almost like they believe that all Catholics are liars, without even delving into the truth. The OP's a perfect example of that. "Yeah, I saw this video with edited subtitles about what a Catholic priest was saying and OMG, it MUST be TRUE!"

...never even questioning WHAT or WHY.

Makes no logical sense to me. *shakes head*

I have a Bible and there is no mention of a Catholic church in my Bible. The only similarity to Catholicism in the Bible Is Pharisaism and they were terribly rebuked by Jesus. See Matthew the 23rd chapter. Jesus referred to them as hypocrites seven times.

 

[Robert Pate]

CyB is just as guilty for allowing sick anti-Catholic thread titles to go undeleted. Funny we don't see sick anti-Baptist thread titles.

Most protestant religions believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world and is the savior of the world.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus said we would be hated. Robert Pate fulfils that warning to a T.

Your Catholic religion is hated because it makes a sham out of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Mink57]

Please show me any Catholic literature that says Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world, or that Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

Try reading a Catholic Bible. AND, the Catholic Catechism.

 

[Mink57]

I have a Bible and there is no mention of a Catholic church in my Bible.

Like I said above, there's no mention of the Lutheran church, or the Methodist church, or any of the of the other 40,000+ churches mentioned by name in the bible.

So, what's you point?

The only similarity to Catholicism in the Bible Is Pharisaism and they were terribly rebuked by Jesus. See Matthew the 23rd chapter. Jesus referred to them as hypocrites seven times.

Wrong again. The Pharisees believed in the LETTER of the law, whereas, Christ came to preach the spirit of the law. The Catholic church believes in the spirit of the law as applied to the letter.

 

[Mink57]

Most protestant religions believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world and is the savior of the world.

Catholic believe the same thing.

 

[Mink57]

Your Catholic religion is hated because it makes a sham out of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Once again, SHOW ME EVIDENCE.

 

[Mink57]

Your Catholic religion is hated because it makes a sham out of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

No. The Catholic religion is hated because those who are NOT Catholic often misinterpret or simply don't agree with what Catholics are saying.

 

[Robert Pate]

No. The Catholic religion is hated because those who are NOT Catholic often misinterpret or simply don't agree with what Catholics are saying.

Catholicism is offensive to those that believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world and is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Revelation 19:16. Every time I have to go to a Catholic church and see a life size statue of my savior hanging on the wall of the church, I have to cringe. Jesus is not on the cross, Jesus is in heaven as the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. He has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and is Lord.

 

[Mink57]

Catholicism is offensive to those that believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world and is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Revelation 19:16.

Since Catholics believe the same thing, there's no logical reason for "those" to be offended.

Every time I have to go to a Catholic church and see a life size statue of my savior hanging on the wall of the church, I have to cringe. Jesus is not on the cross, Jesus is in heaven as the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. He has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and is Lord.

You "cringe" because you don't understand.

The crucifix has been used by Catholics since at least the mid 5th century. Different cultures fashion the crucifix different ways, but the message is the same: That Jesus voluntarily died on the cross for our sins out of love for us. He died for our sins so we didn't have to die in our sins.

Obviously, different churches will have different architectural and artistic designs for the crucifix. But the crucifix is usually fixed on the back wall of the chancel behind the altar, or ABOVE the altar. Often, there's a stained-glass window (or painting) ABOVE the crucifix depicting the resurrection. The reason for the elevation of the crucifix comes from John 3:14: "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up."

The crucifix is seen as an object of contemplation, not worship. There are numerous meanings that can be derived from a crucifix. It can serve as a symbol and a reminder of Christ's journey to earth, his trials and death at the hands of humanity, and his victory over death. It can signify the choice people are given to believe in Jesus or not. It can also represent his brutal death, offering an example for people to follow during hard times or difficult tasks.

It can remind us that Jesus never promised his followers an easy life (Matt. 16:24) but that if we join our sufferings to his, we too can triumph in the end.

The crucifix obviously evokes different emotions in different people. Some people are indifferent to it. Some are disgusted by it. Some feel joy...or sorrow...or a profound reverence. Their emotions toward it may not always be the same every time they look at it, nor will they have the same emotions toward different crosses.

So again, just because *you* may have negative feelings about Catholicism and the crucifix doesn't mean that others feel the same way.

 

[Robert Pate]

Since Catholics believe the same thing, there's no logical reason for "those" to be offended.

You "cringe" because you don't understand.

The crucifix has been used by Catholics since at least the mid 5th century. Different cultures fashion the crucifix different ways, but the message is the same: That Jesus voluntarily died on the cross for our sins out of love for us. He died for our sins so we didn't have to die in our sins.

Obviously, different churches will have different architectural and artistic designs for the crucifix. But the crucifix is usually fixed on the back wall of the chancel behind the altar, or ABOVE the altar. Often, there's a stained-glass window (or painting) ABOVE the crucifix depicting the resurrection. The reason for the elevation of the crucifix comes from John 3:14: "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up."

The crucifix is seen as an object of contemplation, not worship. There are numerous meanings that can be derived from a crucifix. It can serve as a symbol and a reminder of Christ's journey to earth, his trials and death at the hands of humanity, and his victory over death. It can signify the choice people are given to believe in Jesus or not. It can also represent his brutal death, offering an example for people to follow during hard times or difficult tasks.

It can remind us that Jesus never promised his followers an easy life (Matt. 16:24) but that if we join our sufferings to his, we too can triumph in the end.

The crucifix obviously evokes different emotions in different people. Some people are indifferent to it. Some are disgusted by it. Some feel joy...or sorrow...or a profound reverence. Their emotions toward it may not always be the same every time they look at it, nor will they have the same emotions toward different crosses.

So again, just because *you* may have negative feelings about Catholicism and the crucifix doesn't mean that others feel the same way.

The apostles did not go around with a crucifix hanging on their necks. The New Testament emphasis is the resurrection of Jesus not the crucifixion. Catholics do not believe that Jesus atoned for sins. Please show me that they do. They believe that the death of Jesus on the cross inspires them to live holy lives. That's it. The Jesus that I believe in is not still being crucified. He is in heaven mediating his righteousness on my behalf.

More than likely you will be in the "Lord, Lord, didn't I" group mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23. Simply because you are trusting in your Catholic church and yourself. Here is a question for you. How holy do you have to be to become acceptable to God? How many hail Mary's do you have to do? How many wafers do you have to eat? What is the acceptable thing or things that you have to do to be saved?

 

[Illuminator]

The apostles did not go around with a crucifix hanging on their necks.

They didn't pass out Bibles either.

The New Testament emphasis is the resurrection of Jesus not the crucifixion.

Without the crucifixion, there can be no resurrection.

Catholics do not believe that Jesus atoned for sins. Please show me that they do.

Jesus' atonement is expressed in numerous ways: every day at every Mass, in numerous encyclicals thru ought history, in private devotions; it would take several books to show that we believe Jesus' atonement for our sins, but you have been blinded by liars.

They believe that the death of Jesus on the cross inspires them to live holy lives. That's it.

Who told you that? You don't say.

The Jesus that I believe in is not still being crucified. He is in heaven mediating his righteousness on my behalf.

By offering Himself to the Father in the form of Bread and Wine. Not symbols.

More than likely you will be in the "Lord, Lord, didn't I" group mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23. Simply because you are trusting in your Catholic church and yourself. Here is a question for you. How holy do you have to be to become acceptable to God? How many hail Mary's do you have to do? How many wafers do you have to eat? What is the acceptable thing or things that you have to do to be saved?

We don't think God is a bookkeeper. Your view of Catholicism is a series of warped false caricatures. Discussion with you is a waste of time.
Robert Pate will be ignored.

 

[Robert Pate]

Like I said above, there's no mention of the Lutheran church, or the Methodist church, or any of the of the other 40,000+ churches mentioned by name in the bible.

So, what's you point?

Wrong again. The Pharisees believed in the LETTER of the law, whereas, Christ came to preach the spirit of the law. The Catholic church believes in the spirit of the law as applied to the letter.

All religions are based upon law. You cannot join any church unless you agree to abide by their laws. Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what you do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Jesus preached and taught the Mosiac law, not a spirit of the law. The Mosiac law demands absolute obedience or spiritual death. If you fail in one point of the law, you have failed the whole thing and are a sinner, James 2:10. "The soul that sins must die". You are under condemnation. The law is a ministration of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7.

The law is spiritual it searches the desires and the intent of the heart, 4:12. In the judgment if you are not perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10, you will perish. The law says that you are a sinner, Romans 3:23. Jesus is your savior, not the Catholic church.

 

[Mink57]

The apostles did not go around with a crucifix hanging on their necks.

So? Illuminator's right. The Apostles didn't go around passing out bibles...or wear a suit and tie while knocking on doors to preach the Word.

Again, what's your point?

The New Testament emphasis is the resurrection of Jesus not the crucifixion.

The NT emphasizes a LOT of things in addition to the resurrection, including the crucifixion.

Catholics do not believe that Jesus atoned for sins. Please show me that they do.

Please show me that they don't. You're the one making the (erroneous) claim, therefore the burden of proof is on YOU.

They believe that the death of Jesus on the cross inspires them to live holy lives. That's it.

Wrong again. Jesus' life period should inspire ALL of us to lead holy lives.

The Jesus that I believe in is not still being crucified.

Catholics don't believe he's "still being crucified" either.

He is in heaven mediating his righteousness on my behalf.

He is in heaven mediating his righteousness on behalf of ALL those who believe in him.

More than likely you will be in the "Lord, Lord, didn't I" group mentioned in Matthew 7:21-23.

Again, you don't get to judge ME or anyone else. You lack a tremendous amount of knowledge in this area, Robert. You lack knowledge about me and about the Catholic Church/Religion in general.

Simply because you are trusting in your Catholic church and yourself.

LOL! You really think I agree with/approve of EVERYTHING the Catholic Church has done since its formation almost 2000 years ago? I do not rely on my own understanding...which is WHY I often do a lot of research before I open my mouth.

Even the Catholic church declares that it doesn't have all the answers. In my own Catholic Bible, there are many passages that have footnotes and commentaries attached. For instance, in certain passages, the word "eternal" is used the Bible. But the word "eternal" for that passage may have an asterisk next to it ("eternal*). If you look in the footnotes, you may see something like (I'm paraphrasing), "Although the Catholic Council has chosen to use the word "eternal", the oldest manuscript has used the word, "everlasting." Yet, in other bibles, including your KJV, there will be no asterisk...no footnote...no mention of other manuscripts.

Want me to prove my point? You've been touting Romans 3:20 on this thread. Go ahead and post any footnote/cross-reference/commentary on that passage from your bible. Let's see what it has to say.

Here is a question for you. How holy do you have to be to become acceptable to God?

Depends on what you consider that GOD considers to be "holy."

How many hail Mary's do you have to do?

Zero.

How many wafers do you have to eat?

Again, zero.

What is the acceptable thing or things that you have to do to be saved?

What did JESUS tell us that we need to do to be saved? (Hint: It's MORE than passively 'believing' and/or 'having faith')

Did Jesus tell the Apostles to "baptize all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?" Guess I should be baptized.
Did Jesus tell us we should follow HIS Commandments? To love God, love our neighbor and Do Unto Others?
Did Jesus tell us that when he broke bread with his disciples that we should "do this in memory of him"?

Wanna be saved? I suggest that we practice Jesus' words instead of paying the lip service.

 

[Mink57]

All religions are based upon law. You cannot join any church unless you agree to abide by their laws. Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what you do) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

Laws are necessary in order to keep order. Even Paul recognizes the need for order in churches:
“God is not a God of disorder but of peace — as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people … Let all things be done decently and in order” (ESV, 1 Cor. 14:33–40).

The Bible itself is a lawbook of sorts. Really Robert, you can't read Romans 3:20 without reading the rest of the passage.

Jesus preached and taught the Mosiac law, not a spirit of the law.

No, he didn't. If he preached and taught the Mosaic law, he wouldn't have allowed his disciples to pick at the heads of grain of the Sabbath. He would have allowed the woman caught in adultery to be stoned. Seriously, what bible are you reading?

The Mosiac law demands absolute obedience or spiritual death. If you fail in one point of the law, you have failed the whole thing and are a sinner, James 2:10. "The soul that sins must die". You are under condemnation. The law is a ministration of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7.

Again...your point is....?

The law is spiritual it searches the desires and the intent of the heart, 4:12. In the judgment if you are not perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10, you will perish. The law says that you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.

Again...your point...?

Jesus is your savior, not the Catholic church.

I know. Again, your point...?

 

[Robert Pate]

Laws are necessary in order to keep order. Even Paul recognizes the need for order in churches:
“God is not a God of disorder but of peace — as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people … Let all things be done decently and in order” (ESV, 1 Cor. 14:33–40).

The Bible itself is a lawbook of sorts. Really Robert, you can't read Romans 3:20 without reading the rest of the passage.

No, he didn't. If he preached and taught the Mosaic law, he wouldn't have allowed his disciples to pick at the heads of grain of the Sabbath. He would have allowed the woman caught in adultery to be stoned. Seriously, what bible are you reading?

Again...your point is....?

Again...your point...?

I know. Again, your point...?

I don't need to make a Point. The scripture is clear. Romans 3:20 clearly says "By the deeds of Law (what you do) no flesh will be justified in his sight". This means that all religions are worthless, because all religions are based upon law.

The reason that Jesus didn't enforce the Mosiac law and frequently ignored it is because the law has been abolished for believers, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. This also means that all religions are worthless.

 

[Mink57]

I don't need to make a Point.

Then WHY post in the first place?

The scripture is clear. Romans 3:20 clearly says "By the deeds of Law (what you do) no flesh will be justified in his sight".

Do you realize that MANY bible scholars interpret 3:20 to be talking about circumcision? When Paul writes in his other Letters, he links "deeds law" to mean circumcision.

Other scholars take 3:20 to be talking about the letter of the law.

...and here comes Robert Pate, who seems to think he's got it all figured out.

This means that all religions are worthless, because all religions are based upon law.

Depends on how one interprets 3:20.

The reason that Jesus didn't enforce the Mosiac law and frequently ignored it is because the law has been abolished for believers, Ephesians 2:15.

Jesus CLEARLY stated that he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Either Jesus lied, or Ephesians 2:15 means something other than what you're saying.

The law couldn't have been abolished in Jesus time, because Jesus hadn't fulfilled it yet.

Jesus nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14. This also means that all religions are worthless.

I wouldn't say that. Just because *you* have no use for religions doesn't mean that OTHERS don't.

Really, Robert. Ya gotta stop looking at life through only *YOUR* eyes.

 

[Robert Pate]

Then WHY post in the first place?

Do you realize that MANY bible scholars interpret 3:20 to be talking about circumcision? When Paul writes in his other Letters, he links "deeds law" to mean circumcision.

Other scholars take 3:20 to be talking about the letter of the law.

...and here comes Robert Pate, who seems to think he's got it all figured out.

Depends on how one interprets 3:20.

Jesus CLEARLY stated that he didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Either Jesus lied, or Ephesians 2:15 means something other than what you're saying.

The law couldn't have been abolished in Jesus time, because Jesus hadn't fulfilled it yet.

I wouldn't say that. Just because *you* have no use for religions doesn't mean that OTHERS don't.

Really, Robert. Ya gotta stop looking at life through only *YOUR* eyes.

I judge everything in the light of the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ that the apostle Paul taught.

In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles them and the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. In the Gospel all that are trusting in Jesus for their salvation are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. In the Gospel Jesus full fills the law and then abolishes it. Paul wrote, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, Corinthians 1:30.

Catholicism attempts to do in the flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ.

 

[magicmarkers]

Catholicism is offensive to those that believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world and is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Revelation 19:16. Every time I have to go to a Catholic church and see a life size statue of my savior hanging on the wall of the church, I have to cringe. Jesus is not on the cross, Jesus is in heaven as the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. He has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and is Lord.

Nothing wrong with a crucifix. “We preach Christ crucified…the power of God; Do not allow the cross to be emptied of its power.” (1 Cor 1:23;17) Jesus carries the cross into his Resurrection, as we see the glorified Lord with the wounds in his side, hands, and feet. (See Jn 20:27)

Bishop Fulton Sheen rightly said: “Keep your eyes fixed on the crucifix, for Jesus without the cross is a man without a mission, and the cross without Jesus is a burden without a reliever.”