Can you even imagine the huge load guilt and shame ??

[bbyrd009]

but today, you mostly just see people making an absolute fool of themselves and the faith.

well, you gotta crawl before you can walk, i guess. We might observe that to be true, but then again we might be missing that today's fools wise up, only to be replaced by tomorrow's fools, maybe.

understand i can't disagree with anything you are saying, but there are other valid perspectives.
I won't mess with the Holy Spirit thing except to say that all of the Wanderers ate the same spiritual meat and drink, and they all pretty much died; just to post it in 3 places, lol. Not sure what that even means tbh. Maybe we are supposed to be following Moses up the mountain, seeing as how the Promised Land didn't work out so well for the Israelites? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

epiphany.

fwiw a point i meant to get to here is that Scripture is invaluable to me, but i discuss Scripture with many who for instance get quite upset when i point out that Easter is nowhere in It, and even are aghast at why anyone would dare to question the KJV, etc.

So for whatever reason, God has seen fit to insinuate Ishtar worship in the place of Passover, i guess, and even if you could convince me otherwise, most believers you could not, i guess.

 

[Dcopymope]

ah, and when did you see them?

again, don't get me wrong, but those testimonies are from a culture living on the other side of the planet, that spoke a language very at-odds with today's English--i can't even relate how differently than us they think, even today, which is reflected in their language (and even in their writing, which i guess has been observed)--who would likely have been offended at your calling them "Christians," to boot. And we have not even yet considered that we think logically, while Scripture is surely written from a dialectic perspective

and then these testimonies were effectively removed from circulation for several hundred years (read "insulated from critique by contemporaries"), translated 3 or 4 times, and then given to us, principally by interpretation of some logical thinker lol.

imo it is at least worth pondering that those portrayed as walking the walk there in Acts--that little Communist Utopia that most preachers are so reluctant to address?--were begging for money a couple years later, Paul collecting alms for them etc.

They would have likely been offended at me calling them Christians you say? Well that would be quite hypocritical of them since they were the first ones calling themselves Christians to start with.

(Acts 11:22-26) "¶ Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. {23} Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. {24} For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. {25} Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: {26} And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

And the churches back in those days were more or less in poverty pal. They were nothing like the numerous mega churches today with their filthy rich pastors preaching a fake gospel of prosperity, and they were nothing like the filthy rich Vatican either, as a prime example.

well, you gotta crawl before you can walk, i guess. We might observe that to be true, but then again we might be missing that today's fools wise up, only to be replaced by tomorrow's fools, maybe.

understand i can't disagree with anything you are saying, but there are other valid perspectives.
I won't mess with the Holy Spirit thing except to say that all of the Wanderers ate the same spiritual meat and drink, and they all pretty much died; just to post it in 3 places, lol. Not sure what that even means tbh. Maybe we are supposed to be following Moses up the mountain, seeing as how the Promised Land didn't work out so well for the Israelites? lol

Well, even though Moses never saw the promised land. The fruits of his labor sure as hell worked out very well for him in the end if you consider the transfiguration......HA!!!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

they were the first ones calling themselves Christians to start with.

"And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

this is kind of what i am trying to get at here, even though this aspect was overlooked in the earlier bullet points, and should be added to it i guess; that passage does not say that they were calling themselves Christians, see.

but let me admit that i really have no idea, ok, i am just parroting either a genius or an idiot, and the jury is still out i guess? Seems to be like maybe 70/30 my favor? dunno

 

[bbyrd009]

And the churches back in those days were more or less in poverty pal.

imo a better term for them is congregations, as we are now dangerously close to calling buildings churches now

 

[bbyrd009]

They were nothing like the numerous mega churches today

ha, and there it is lol, why even bother Protesting imo

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, even though Moses never saw the promised land.

didn't he? From the top of a mountain, no less? i get you tho. Sounds like God did him a favor lol, as you point out

worked out very well for him in the end if you consider the transfiguration......HA!!!!!

 

[amadeus]

@mjrhealth @Dcopymope

mjrhealth said:
Really, teh disciples knew Jesus

Dcopymope said:
Yep, which is unlike any Christian today, because they saw him with their own two eyes, whether in the spirit or in the flesh, before and after his Resurrection. That's why the church of today can never compare to the early church, the first Christians of Peter and Paul's day, so thanks for proving my point.

You say they saw with their own eyes and then confuse your statement with the words, "whether in the spirit or in the flesh". Before receiving the Holy Spirit in themselves those disciples were nearly completely blind to the things of God. Mostly they were only hungry but they were also very ignorant. They had only a glimmer of Light which made them want more. The more was not given in full measure to be in them until they had their upper room experience in Acts chapter 2.

Don't confuse the natural vision of the two fleshly orbs set into our foreheads with the vision which we need so as not to perish. The former is where the Saul/Paul was before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus and had his eyes [both natural and spiritual] touched by Ananias [Acts chapter 9]. The natural eyes became blind in order to let the man [Saul] know just how spiritually blind he had been in spite of his great knowledge of scripture.

Without the Holy Spirit working in us, we are all blind to the things of God. Only a tiny glimmer is left to us to allow us to get hungry and thirsty for more when a witness speaks to us.

I agree that the Church today is not where the early Church was, but that does not speak of individuals... and even the Church is on the approach. Some individuals always have have been hungry enough and thirsty enough to receive His righteousness NOW. Consider the Syrophoenician woman who Jesus effectively called a dog, but gave her what she desired because of her faith. She could see better than his closest disciples in that moment.

The disciples did not know Jesus until later. They walked with him but all of them were blind to his words regarding his death and resurrection until after it had happened. Consider what Jesus was saying to Thomas here:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

[Ally.s.j]

I am not interested in convincing you. Just giving my side. Oh, I see. I am the one arguing, not you. Ok. But I don't mind arguing.

Not everyone you speak to on Christian forums are Christians either. Was Christ showing love when He overturned the tables? And among believers you will have sharp arguments and debates. (Acts 15:1) "And certain men which taught the brethren,and said,Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them...." (15:5) "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep[ the law of Moses." Was Paul and Barnabas showing love to these believing Pharisees?

(Acts 15:37-39) "...Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren...And Barnabas determined to take with them John,whose surname was Mark. But Paul thought not good to take him...And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder...." Was Paul and Barnabas showing love to one another?

The bottom line is this. When you come on a forum, expect debate, argument, and hurt feelings. It comes with the territory. I didn't say you had to like it. But you cannot change it. And, as I said before, it isn't for everyone.

Stranger

I never said you are arguing with me. I see you arguing with many right enough. But you did tell me to leave which is not very Christ like and no required. You may well like arguing but again that is not Christ like and not what you are asked or commanded to do.

Please don't take Christ's example of His Love for His Fathers house as the same are you arguing about trivial matters in here.
You have two example from scripture one is a flat out wrong to liken to this tripe in here. The other doesn't say and you can go arguing as well That's nonsense.

What they were doing was written in scripture what you are doing is nonsense. Hard to believe you would draw comparisons from them.

That may well be YOUR bottom line but you have no right to being going about making endless arguments with no love for one and other.
At least some of the other forum users admitted that they were not best representing Christ.

This is not the way no matter how you twist scripture to make it fit your agenda. You may argue and fight and bicker with everyone you want. But it show nothing of Christ. Its no wonder you don't think young Christians should come here. to get pulled in to this type of thinking and you convincing them that its OK to fight and argue as long as you can twist scripture. You would be correct it would not be good for young Christians who love and want to serve correctly. Should not come into your kind of environment. !1 Verses telling you to love one and other. I never saw one telling you to argue. Do you have at least one telling YOU to argue. No you dont sir. BUt as I said with free will you can do as YOU like. and YOU like to argue.

 

[Stranger]

I never said you are arguing with me. I see you arguing with many right enough. But you did tell me to leave which is not very Christ like and no required. You may well like arguing but again that is not Christ like and not what you are asked or commanded to do.

Please don't take Christ's example of His Love for His Fathers house as the same are you arguing about trivial matters in here.
You have two example from scripture one is a flat out wrong to liken to this tripe in here. The other doesn't say and you can go arguing as well That's nonsense.

What they were doing was written in scripture what you are doing is nonsense. Hard to believe you would draw comparisons from them.

That may well be YOUR bottom line but you have no right to being going about making endless arguments with no love for one and other.
At least some of the other forum users admitted that they were not best representing Christ.

This is not the way no matter how you twist scripture to make it fit your agenda. You may argue and fight and bicker with everyone you want. But it show nothing of Christ. Its no wonder you don't think young Christians should come here. to get pulled in to this type of thinking and you convincing them that its OK to fight and argue as long as you can twist scripture. You would be correct it would not be good for young Christians who love and want to serve correctly. Should not come into your kind of environment. !1 Verses telling you to love one and other. I never saw one telling you to argue. Do you have at least one telling YOU to argue. No you dont sir. BUt as I said with free will you can do as YOU like. and YOU like to argue.

Sure, you are not arguing.

The Scriptures I gave you do pertain as you didn't answer the questions that went with them. I didn't twist them.

You want more Scripture? Yet you don't believe the ones I gave Oh well. (Acts 19:9) "But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus."

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Without the Holy Spirit working in us, we are all blind to the things of God. Only a tiny glimmer is left to us to allow us to get hungry and thirsty for more when a witness speaks to us.

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if the tiny glimmer is all we get when we get the Spirit lol. As Paul going to Jeru for the Nazarite vow maybe witnesses?

The disciples did not know Jesus until later. They walked with him but all of them were blind to his words regarding his death and resurrection until after it had happened.

and even afterward, i'm pretty sure, regardless of the "it is given for you to know" language.

 

[bbyrd009]

I never said you are arguing with me. I see you arguing with many right enough. But you did tell me to leave which is not very Christ like and no required. You may well like arguing but again that is not Christ like and not what you are asked or commanded to do.

Please don't take Christ's example of His Love for His Fathers house as the same are you arguing about trivial matters in here.
You have two example from scripture one is a flat out wrong to liken to this tripe in here. The other doesn't say and you can go arguing as well That's nonsense.

What they were doing was written in scripture what you are doing is nonsense. Hard to believe you would draw comparisons from them.

That may well be YOUR bottom line but you have no right to being going about making endless arguments with no love for one and other.
At least some of the other forum users admitted that they were not best representing Christ.

This is not the way no matter how you twist scripture to make it fit your agenda. You may argue and fight and bicker with everyone you want. But it show nothing of Christ. Its no wonder you don't think young Christians should come here. to get pulled in to this type of thinking and you convincing them that its OK to fight and argue as long as you can twist scripture. You would be correct it would not be good for young Christians who love and want to serve correctly. Should not come into your kind of environment. !1 Verses telling you to love one and other. I never saw one telling you to argue. Do you have at least one telling YOU to argue. No you dont sir. BUt as I said with free will you can do as YOU like. and YOU like to argue.

 

[Ally.s.j]

Sure, you are not arguing.

The Scriptures I gave you do pertain as you didn't answer the questions that went with them. I didn't twist them.

You want more Scripture? Yet you don't believe the ones I gave Oh well. (Acts 19:9) "But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus."

Stranger

I see you never gave a scripture that says its ok for you and many in here to do what there doing. So you do your thing and I will continue to do what I can for today.

 

[Ally.s.j]

U2 have a lot about Christ hidden in there lyrics

 

[Stranger]

I see you never gave a scripture that says its ok for you and many in here to do what there doing. So you do your thing and I will continue to do what I can for today.

I did give you Scripture. I couldn't find any however that said you were the Holy Ghost.

Gee thanks. That was what I was doing. Sounds good.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I see you never gave a scripture that says its ok for you and many in here to do what there doing.

fwiw i could give you a page full of vv for that; it is the interpretation that matters, as you have noted.

 

[DicipleofJesus]

The thief knows stealing is wrong and will not deny it. the murderer knows murder is wrong and will not try to deny it but most of those living in the sick minded demon inspired abomination of sexual perversion try to say their sin is not sin!!
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in heir own persons the due penalty of their error.
28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

O
It is so hard to understand how Christians can recite quantities of scripture from memory. But when it co.es to
To.ans1 they can only recite those last verses above cited. They do t pay attention to the punctuation marks. Thus this whole chpter ought to be read by a grade2 teacher who specialises in teaching the importance of punctualtion marks

 

[DicipleofJesus]

O
It is so hard to understand how Christians can recite quantities of scripture from memory. But when it co.es to
To.ans1 they can only recite those last verses above cited. They do t pay attention to the punctuation marks. Thus this whole chpter ought to be read by a grade2 teacher who specialises in teaching the importance of punctualtion marks

 

[DicipleofJesus]

But briefly there ought not be so much shame. The only one who chose to get a divorce and go astry was the pastor who will be judged doubly for his choices by God. The children and wife needed counceli ng to take away the pain and to tell them they are. Not to consider themselves objects of shame. Because they did nothi g wrong because of pastors vchoice the trust issues are also a biggie. But smarten up. They need compassion not to. Be left to feel shame etcetra to justify your own homophobia. Get a life. Unlike you Jesus knows the difference between homosexuals and blasphemers of the Holy Spirit. So whate er your notion of having the mind of Jesus is, is got to be a messed up one.

 

[Dcopymope]

@mjrhealth @Dcopymope




You say they saw with their own eyes and then confuse your statement with the words, "whether in the spirit or in the flesh". Before receiving the Holy Spirit in themselves those disciples were nearly completely blind to the things of God. Mostly they were only hungry but they were also very ignorant. They had only a glimmer of Light which made them want more. The more was not given in full measure to be in them until they had their upper room experience in Acts chapter 2.

Don't confuse the natural vision of the two fleshly orbs set into our foreheads with the vision which we need so as not to perish. The former is where the Saul/Paul was before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus and had his eyes [both natural and spiritual] touched by Ananias [Acts chapter 9]. The natural eyes became blind in order to let the man [Saul] know just how spiritually blind he had been in spite of his great knowledge of scripture.

Without the Holy Spirit working in us, we are all blind to the things of God. Only a tiny glimmer is left to us to allow us to get hungry and thirsty for more when a witness speaks to us.

I agree that the Church today is not where the early Church was, but that does not speak of individuals... and even the Church is on the approach. Some individuals always have have been hungry and enough and thirsty enough to receive His righteousness NOW. Consider the Syrophoenician woman who Jesus effectively called a dog, but gave her what she desired because of her faith. She could see better than his closest disciples in that moment.

The disciples did not know Jesus until later. They walked with him but all of them were blind to his words regarding his death and resurrection until after it had happened. Consider what Jesus was saying to Thomas here:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

Well hell, I didn't even realize you responded to me. I never said that you wouldn't be blind to the things of God without the holy spirit. My point is very simple, since they saw God with their own two eyes three days later, then that is the one thing that disqualifies the current church as comparable to the early church by reason of that alone. My point is their experiences didn't just boil down to a feeling coming over them like the rush of a wind. They actually saw prophecy fulfilled with their own two eyes.