Can Someone Please Define What a Christian is?

[atpollard]

I teach sinners they can count on the KJV as the pure word of God.

Peter had your number and warned us about teaching like that:

2 Peter 2:1 [KJV]
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Paul said that salvation was to be found like THIS:

Romans 10:9-10 [KJV]
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

... Salvation comes from JESUS, not a book.

[See, there is nothing wrong with the KJV as a translation ... unless you worship it as an idol!]

See if you can figure out what Jesus was saying ...

• Mark 10:18 [KJV] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
• Luke 18:19 [KJV] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.

... and why it applies to your "pure word of God" KJV folly.

 

[atpollard]

Have you seen the autographs to compare it to?

Have you seen the autographs to compare the KJV to?

[I have seen manuscripts that predate the Textus Recepticus to compare it to and determine that the TR has errors introduced by copyists which were carried over into the KJV that was translated in part from the TR into English ... errors that are not in the MGNT or modern translations based on older scrolls - copies closer to the autographs.]

 

[Truther]

Peter had your number and warned us about teaching like that:

2 Peter 2:1 [KJV]
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Paul said that salvation was to be found like THIS:

Romans 10:9-10 [KJV]
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

... Salvation comes from JESUS, not a book.

[See, there is nothing wrong with the KJV as a translation ... unless you worship it as an idol!]

See if you can figure out what Jesus was saying ...

• Mark 10:18 [KJV] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
• Luke 18:19 [KJV] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.

... and why it applies to your "pure word of God" KJV folly.

Teaching sinners there is such thing as a pure word of God is heresy?

 

[Truther]

Have you seen the autographs to compare the KJV to?

[I have seen manuscripts that predate the Textus Recepticus to compare it to and determine that the TR has errors introduced by copyists which were carried over into the KJV that was translated in part from the TR into English ... errors that are not in the MGNT or modern translations based on older scrolls - copies closer to the autographs.]

The autographs ceased to exist in the first few centuries. Thousands of copies were used for the KJV. The election process was also used. Combined, God used them to get us an English Bible for the last days to evangelize the world with. Also God uses it as the plumbline for other language translations and a document to find modern translations to be fraudulent.

 

[atpollard]

The autographs ceased to exist in the first few centuries.

Then why did you ask me if I had read them?

 

[Truther]

Then why did you ask me if I had read them?

So you can stop saying that the OA's say this and that.

 

[atpollard]

So you can stop saying that the OA's say this and that.

Here is what I said about the Autographs ...

the autographs are the pure word of God

... and I stand by that statement.

 

[Truther]

Here is what I said about the Autographs ...

... and I stand by that statement.

I agree.

Howbout the majority of the copies?

Can a tape recording of someone be considered evidence of what they said?

 

[atpollard]

How bout the majority of the copies?

Since we are asking MY OPINION, I favor OLDER Copies above NEWER copies rather than "majority" (greatest number) of copies. Here is my logic. Suppose I wanted to recreate the original first printing of "Hop On Pop" by Dr Seuss by going to every public library in my state and checking out every copy of "Hop On Pop" they had. I might find two (2) second edition copies of the book, nineteen (19) third edition copies and one hundred (100) fourth edition copies.
The publisher may have made changes and corrections with each printing, but which copy is likely to be most similar to the First Edition printing, the oldest copy (only two second edition printings) or the newest copies (100 fourth edition printings)?

The ACTUAL EXPERTS have additional tools available to them. They can often trace specific errors back to know which manuscripts have a common earlier source and, therefore, compare "FAMILIES" of copies. They can also study the detail of grammar and compare it to translations made into other languages at a very early date to determine the most likely correct word. I lack their skill and resources.

However, I am less impressed that many people made a later copy of an error than I am that a very early fragment recently discovered either confirms or opposes one option over another. Errors tend to be added over time as people copy things, not erased.

 

[Truther]

Since we are asking MY OPINION, I favor OLDER Copies above NEWER copies rather than "majority" (greatest number) of copies. Here is my logic. Suppose I wanted to recreate the original first printing of "Hop On Pop" by Dr Seuss by going to every public library in my state and checking out every copy of "Hop On Pop" they had. I might find two (2) second edition copies of the book, nineteen (19) third edition copies and one hundred (100) fourth edition copies.
The publisher may have made changes and corrections with each printing, but which copy is likely to be most similar to the First Edition printing, the oldest copy (only two second edition printings) or the newest copies (100 fourth edition printings)?

The ACTUAL EXPERTS have additional tools available to them. They can often trace specific errors back to know which manuscripts have a common earlier source and, therefore, compare "FAMILIES" of copies. They can also study the detail of grammar and compare it to translations made into other languages at a very early date to determine the most likely correct word. I lack their skill and resources.

However, I am less impressed that many people made a later copy of an error than I am that a very early fragment recently discovered either confirms or opposes one option over another. Errors tend to be added over time as people copy things, not erased.

1 old copy that says different than thousands of identical copies is your cup of tea?

You really are that excited about the Alexandrian text, huh?

Your logic means 1 old copyist gave you your Bible.

Who is this hero?

 

[atpollard]

1 old copy that says different than thousands of identical copies is your cup of tea?

You really are that excited about the Alexandrian text, huh?

Your logic means 1 old copyist gave you your Bible.

Who is this hero?

You win. My facts are powerless before your determined ignorance. You are able to spout nonsense faster than I can correct you with the truth.

 

[quietthinker]

You win. My facts are powerless before your determined ignorance. You are able to spout nonsense faster than I can correct you with the truth.

That, unfortunately, is the case with many, subsequently one is inclined to bow out of the conversation, hopefully gracefully.

 

[Aunty Jane]

All I am asking for is which translation is the pure word of God so I can read it?

There are many good translations but these reflect what the first Christians believed about many things that Christendom has altered. Paraphrased versions are a worry because they are wide open to false interpretation, but there are quite a few that stick to the meaning of original language words without blending them into false doctrines.

Peter said the word of God endures forever, not the tainted word of God endures forever, correct?

Yes, “the word of God” is in it’s original message....as written by his chosen scribes, not what it became under the influence of Christendom’s many doctrines. English translations did not become available until the foretold apostasy was in full swing.

The Bible is one story from start to finish......it tells us why God put us here on this earth, how a rebel spirit derailed God’s purpose for a time, and how he solved the problems associated with the abuse of free will.....which was a precious gift in the beginning, but satan lied to the first humans and turned it into a curse. As his influence in the world grew, abuse of free will has been at the base of every wicked act ever carried out.
The Bible stands as a record of how the abuse of free will led to man’s downfall, but it all started with one of God’s spirit sons, imagining that he could rule the world and gain what his covetous heart desired....all he had to do was separate them from God by influencing them to disobey his command.
Instead of eliminating the rebels and starting again, God allowed the rebellion to run its full course to show all of his children exactly where abuse of free will leads.....and here we are at the time of the end...at the cusp of its finale’.

If we understand the big picture and the whole story and see our place in it, almost all English translations can teach the truth.....some just convey it better than others, which is where interlinear Bibles and concordances have value to one who genuinely wants to understand the real message of the scriptures.

The devil introduced a counterfeit “Christianity” very early in our history, in exactly the same way as he introduced a counterfeit Jewish faith in the years BC. He used men of influence and power to alter the meaning of God’s word, craftily weaving false doctrines into the words of scripture. But to identify a counterfeit, you first of all need to know what the genuine article looks like......unless you do, the counterfeit is all you will know, and you will judge everything by the fake religion you were raised in, or were convinced was the truth, rather than the real thing. God will not prevent you from subscribing to the wrong religion if that is where your heart is inclined…..he will detect in you a natural rejection of things that misrepresent him and his word. That is when he will reveal himself and “draw” you to his truth, (John 6:44) which will be heresy to everyone else, because you see through the same foundational beliefs that prop up satan’s religious systems…..all of them. Only then will you receive an invitation to enter his family. (John 6:65) No one can enter the “sheepfold” without that invitation from the gatekeeper, which means that all will subscribe to the same truth. (1 Cor 1:10) The truth creates unity, not division.

How do you tell the difference between true religion and false religion in a world ruled by God’s powerful adversary? (1 John 5:19)
All false religion, “Christian” or otherwise has a common foundation of beliefs.....ones that are found in all worship promoted by the devil.
These are....
*A multiplicity of gods, often in triads.....yet Yahweh is “one”, not three. (Deut 6:4)

*Belief in an immortal soul that perpetuates the devil’s first lie (“you surely will not die”)....when the Bible does not teach this at all. (Gen 3:19) Death is the end of this present life and resurrection is how God restores life when Jesus rules in his kingdom. (John 5:28-29) Life is interrupted….it does not continue somewhere else.

*And the belief that the good go to a heaven of eternal bliss, whilst the wicked suffer eternally in a hell of flames. No matter what religion you are, in whatever part of the world you live, these beliefs will permeate your worship. They are all lies.

Humans do not have an immortal soul because all souls are earthbound “breathers”. We are designed by God for life on earth, not heaven.

The fact that some humans are chosen to rule with Christ in his kingdom simply means that God wanted all the rulers to have lived as humans on earth in order to be the compassionate kings and priests (Rev 2:6) as Jesus has also proven to be, so his kingdom will bring us back to God’s first purpose...to have humankind living on earth forever, taking care of the planet, it’s creatures, and each other as God intended. (Rev 21:2-4)

There is no such place as a hell of eternal torment as this is totally contrary to God’s nature and personality.
Jeremiah recorded God’s thoughts when the Israelites had adopted the disgusting practice of child sacrifice to a false god....
“For the people of Judah have done what is bad in my eyes,’ declares Jehovah. ‘They have set up their disgusting idols in the house that bears my name, in order to defile it. 31 They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’” (Jer 7:30-31)

If God said that burning children in a fire was something that would not enter his heart, why would he do that to his own children?
Under Israel’s law, the highest penalty to be paid was death.....there was no torture of any sort.
The righteous will be rewarded with everlasting life, and the wicked will go into “the lake of fire”, which is not a literal place but is called the second death…..a place where those cast in there, will not have a resurrection.

Fire in the scriptures is associated with complete destruction.
As Jesus said in Matt 10:28….
”And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.”

“Gehenna” is incorrectly translated as “hell”. Nothing alive ever went into Gehenna…..they are destroyed in that place.

 

[Truther]

You win. My facts are powerless before your determined ignorance. You are able to spout nonsense faster than I can correct you with the truth.

…. says the man whose ministry is to tell sinners that that there is no accurate Bible they can read on the planet.

 

[Truther]

There are many good translations but these reflect what the first Christians believed about many things that Christendom has altered. Paraphrased versions are a worry because they are wide open to false interpretation, but there are quite a few that stick to the meaning of original language words without blending them into false doctrines.

Yes, “the word of God” is in it’s original message....as written by his chosen scribes, not what it became under the influence of Christendom’s many doctrines. English translations did not become available until the foretold apostasy was in full swing.

The Bible is one story from start to finish......it tells us why God put us here on this earth, how a rebel spirit derailed God’s purpose for a time, and how he solved the problems associated with the abuse of free will.....which was a precious gift in the beginning, but satan lied to the first humans and turned it into a curse. As his influence in the world grew, abuse of free will has been at the base of every wicked act ever carried out.
The Bible stands as a record of how the abuse of free will led to man’s downfall, but it all started with one of God’s spirit sons, imagining that he could rule the world and gain what his covetous heart desired....all he had to do was separate them from God by influencing them to disobey his command.
Instead of eliminating the rebels and starting again, God allowed the rebellion to run its full course to show all of his children exactly where abuse of free will leads.....and here we are at the time of the end...at the cusp of its finale’.

If we understand the big picture and the whole story and see our place in it, almost all English translations can teach the truth.....some just convey it better than others, which is where interlinear Bibles and concordances have value to one who genuinely wants to understand the real message of the scriptures.

The devil introduced a counterfeit “Christianity” very early in our history, in exactly the same way as he introduced a counterfeit Jewish faith in the years BC. He used men of influence and power to alter the meaning of God’s word, craftily weaving false doctrines into the words of scripture. But to identify a counterfeit, you first of all need to know what the genuine article looks like......unless you do, the counterfeit is all you will know, and you will judge everything by the fake religion you were raised in, or were convinced was the truth, rather than the real thing. God will not prevent you from subscribing to the wrong religion if that is where your heart is inclined…..he will detect in you a natural rejection of things that misrepresent him and his word. That is when he will reveal himself and “draw” you to his truth, (John 6:44) which will be heresy to everyone else, because you see through the same foundational beliefs that prop up satan’s religious systems…..all of them. Only then will you receive an invitation to enter his family. (John 6:65) No one can enter the “sheepfold” without that invitation from the gatekeeper, which means that all will subscribe to the same truth. (1 Cor 1:10) The truth creates unity, not division.

How do you tell the difference between true religion and false religion in a world ruled by God’s powerful adversary? (1 John 5:19)
All false religion, “Christian” or otherwise has a common foundation of beliefs.....ones that are found in all worship promoted by the devil.
These are....
*A multiplicity of gods, often in triads.....yet Yahweh is “one”, not three. (Deut 6:4)

*Belief in an immortal soul that perpetuates the devil’s first lie (“you surely will not die”)....when the Bible does not teach this at all. (Gen 3:19) Death is the end of this present life and resurrection is how God restores life when Jesus rules in his kingdom. (John 5:28-29) Life is interrupted….it does not continue somewhere else.

*And the belief that the good go to a heaven of eternal bliss, whilst the wicked suffer eternally in a hell of flames. No matter what religion you are, in whatever part of the world you live, these beliefs will permeate your worship. They are all lies.

Humans do not have an immortal soul because all souls are earthbound “breathers”. We are designed by God for life on earth, not heaven.

The fact that some humans are chosen to rule with Christ in his kingdom simply means that God wanted all the rulers to have lived as humans on earth in order to be the compassionate kings and priests (Rev 2:6) as Jesus has also proven to be, so his kingdom will bring us back to God’s first purpose...to have humankind living on earth forever, taking care of the planet, it’s creatures, and each other as God intended. (Rev 21:2-4)

There is no such place as a hell of eternal torment as this is totally contrary to God’s nature and personality.
Jeremiah recorded God’s thoughts when the Israelites had adopted the disgusting practice of child sacrifice to a false god....
“For the people of Judah have done what is bad in my eyes,’ declares Jehovah. ‘They have set up their disgusting idols in the house that bears my name, in order to defile it. 31 They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’” (Jer 7:30-31)

If God said that burning children in a fire was something that would not enter his heart, why would he do that to his own children?
Under Israel’s law, the highest penalty to be paid was death.....there was no torture of any sort.
The righteous will be rewarded with everlasting life, and the wicked will go into “the lake of fire”, which is not a literal place but is called the second death…..a place where those cast in there, will not have a resurrection.

Fire in the scriptures is associated with complete destruction.
As Jesus said in Matt 10:28….
”And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.”

“Gehenna” is incorrectly translated as “hell”. Nothing alive ever went into Gehenna…..they are destroyed in that place.

All I am asking for is which translation is the pure word of God so I can read it?

 

[Truther]

I guess all I am dealing with is a bunch of Bible critiques, and none of them are soul winners.

 

[Truther]

In a soul winning class the first thing you need to learn to tell sinners is that the Bible is the pure word of God and they can trust it. Without that you have nothing. You will never win souls trashing the Bible, and saying that they all have errors in them. You have to pick a Bible translation and preach it as the word of God to get faith in it.

 

[N. Janis]

Romans 10:9
New King James Version

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

I also think speaking the truth in kindness and love works. I need that reminder when I get angry at my oldest brother. Thanks.

 

[quietthinker]

In a soul winning class the first thing you need to learn to tell sinners is that the Bible is the pure word of God and they can trust it. Without that you have nothing. You will never win souls trashing the Bible, and saying that they all have errors in them. You have to pick a Bible translation and preach it as the word of God to get faith in it.

Wow, such ignorance! How do you think the Disciples won people? How do you think blind deaf and dumb people find Jesus?
Why do you think many many others who think will be first will in fact be last. Do you think it's because they had the wrong translation? ....and those who are deemed last will be first....how do you think that happens?......cuz, of course Jesus carried a bible under his cloak 24/7.....don't you hear him giving chapter and verse at every opportunity? Which translation do you think it was?

 

[Aunty Jane]

All I am asking for is which translation is the pure word of God so I can read it?

It’s up to you to find a translation that your heart tells you is accurate…..this tells God a lot about you and how much the truth is attractive to you, although the majority prefer to believe something taught by Christendom. Every Christian is tested for life under the rulership of the kingdom of God. How much do we accept the unpopular truth, compared to the popular lies? God knows……