Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
I like how he ignores the whole chapter, inserts his one idea as if it was a trump card...lol then calls it sound hermenutics...lol
Calvinism is a Cult
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Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Yes, unfortunately he is not going to be corrected by Scripture. It is remarkable to see he talks of others twisting Scripture while he takes it out of context for every argument he tries to make. He cannot see it.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
@justbyfaith really really needs to end trying to teach others...and begin listening to those trying to help him. Seriously you're dangerous in a bad way.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
He casually sets the Apostle Paul aside.
The verses could not be plainer.
He just makes as if they were never written at all.
He does not need a bible, just a postcard that he writes his own ideas down, and inflicts that on everyone. I am sure many like this are in a mega church with rock bands and tv screens, worship teams, drama, plays, skits, clowns
..
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
He has zero respect for Scripture or the God of Scripture.
Heard a preacher a few weeks back tell the people they can will themselves into heaven and salvation. Unreal. That was PURE Finneyism.
I believe that those who read with seeing eyes will see that I am not doing so.
Those who read will see that what I am saying is true if they even have eyes to see.
It seems that some "Christians" are always in attack mode. Sad...
Y'all are contending for the idea that God does not love the sinner. Surely I am the one in the wrong for believing what it says in Romans 5:8 in contradiction to your warped theology.
Context never nullifies the meaning of a verse as it is plainly stated.
It should be clear from reading the Bible that God is love (1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:16) and therefore He loves the sinner. Jesus Himself was condemned by the Pharisees for being the friend of tax collectors and sinners.
If Jesus is not the friend of tax collectors and sinners, and does not love them, then He does not love you...for you yourself have sinned and also do come short of the glory of the Lord (Romans 3:23, 1 John 1:8, Galatians 3:22).
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
The love of God for his sheep is no excuse for you to run away from the context of Roman's 5...being justified by faith we have peace with God.
You ignore this and lose all credibility.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
I did not attack when I went verse by verse in Roman's 5. You keep saying we have...warped theology,that seems like an attack to me.
You are ignoring what was posted. That is an accurate statement. Now you like the others claim foul so you do not have to deal with the scriptures.
Go over Roman's 5 verses 1-11...show how anything I posted was in correct...I will wait.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
God loves sinners in Christ. To be apart from Christ is to be apart from His love.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Ah-ah-ah!Just because I have argued against YOUR assertion that there is an "apparent contradiction" between John 3:16 and Psalm 5:5 that hardly means that I have "made your case for you". To quote another of your gathering, "that's a huge exaggeration and not even remotely true."
Here is what I believe FYI: I believe that God the Father calls all who hear (some refuse to hear) to come to repentance and faith. Many refuse to hear--Isaiah 30:9; Jeremiah 13:10 and 17:23; Ezekiel 2:7; Luke 16:31; Acts 7:57 and 28:27; 2 Timothy 4:3-4). Yet, He is patient, wanting all to come (2 Peter 3:9). I also believe that the Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit to "convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8). The Godhead helps them to believe, through their testimony(Matthew 3:16-17) and then furthers their faith by lessening their doubts (Mark 9:24). The martyrs are especially prized by God because martyrdom shows the high level of faith and trust in God--for all who see. It has been said that many Romans came to faith because the waves of severe persecution by them did not dampen the ardor of Jesus' followers.
Those who will be condemned are those who refuse to respond to the call, in repentance and faith, because 1) their deeds are evil, 2) they have no regard for the truth and 3) they do not have God's love in their hearts, nor do they love Him. (John 3:18-21; John 8:54-56 and John 5:42). Theirs is the more egregious sin--that of refusing to believe, because they do not love the truth (John 18:37). Jesus said that if the unsaved have many sins, they will receive "many stripes"(Luke 12:47-48).
Okay, I see the usage of 2 Peter 3:9 again. God is not willing any should perish is in regards to His sheep, His chosen children, His elect. The whole context of that book is directed to believers and not unbelievers. You can not apply it to unbelievers but to believers.
His divine power has given us everything…[2 Peter 1:3]
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises….[vs 4]
For we did not follow cleverly devised stories…[vs 16]
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture…[vs 20]
……just as there will be false teachers among you.[2 Peter 2:1]
In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories….[vs 3]
Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you….[2 Peter 3:1]
I want you to recall the words spoken….[vs 2]
Above all, you must understand that in the last days…..[vs 3]
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends:…[vs 8]
…Instead he is patient with you…[vs 9]
The whole context of that book is directed towards believers.
The Christ said this 12“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? 13 If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. 14 So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish."[Matthew 18] The little ones who God is not willing should perish in both this passage and 2 Peter 3:9 are His sheep, IOW...believers.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
When you exegete a passage and do not use eisegesis, expect pushback.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Ah-ah-ah!
Here is what I believe FYI: I believe that God the Father calls all who hear (some refuse to hear) to come to repentance and faith. Many refuse to hear--Isaiah 30:9; Jeremiah 13:10 and 17:23; Ezekiel 2:7; Luke 16:31; Acts 7:57 and 28:27; 2 Timothy 4:3-4). Yet, He is patient, wanting all to come (2 Peter 3:9). I also believe that the Father and the Son send the Holy Spirit to "convince the world of sin, righteousness and judgment" (John 16:8). The Godhead helps them to believe, through their testimony(Matthew 3:16-17) and then furthers their faith by lessening their doubts (Mark 9:24). The martyrs are especially prized by God because martyrdom shows the high level of faith and trust in God--for all who see. It has been said that many Romans came to faith because the waves of severe persecution by them did not dampen the ardor of Jesus' followers.
Those who will be condemned are those who refuse to respond to the call, in repentance and faith, because 1) their deeds are evil, 2) they have no regard for the truth and 3) they do not have God's love in their hearts, nor do they love Him. (John 3:18-21; John 8:54-56 and John 5:42). Theirs is the more egregious sin--that of refusing to believe, because they do not love the truth (John 18:37). Jesus said that if the unsaved have many sins, they will receive "many stripes"(Luke 12:47-48).
And those who refuse to believe are condemned already. John 3:18 could not be any clearer in this matter. Those who died in their sins, having never read a bible, never had a missionary witness unto them, are condemned already. Ppl go to hell because they died in their sins.
The entire bible itself commences with a story about free will, yet you're going to state that free will doesnt exist...
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
No, it commences with God.
Now, where exactly did that "free will" get us? You may want to take a gander at Romans 5.
Now, try dealing with the Scriptures given you instead of your faulty opinions. You do believe Scripture over your own breath, correct? Good! Now deal with all those Scriptures given you. I'll be waiting.
Well, no kidding. Of course it does. You could make that general statement about the entire bible.
I was asking what the story of Adam and Eve centers around? The choice that led to disobedience. That choice to disobey could only have been permitted by Free Will existing.
Romans 5 doesn't make a case for the absence of free will. Not sure what you're even trying to argue with Romans 5 here, or how you could look at it and think it supports Calvinism.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
It's amazing, these anti-calvinists. Always and in any way possible they will do whatever it takes to rob God of the glory, in salvation, or whatever. They put man in the forefront perpetually.
We show how salvation is all of God, all of grace, and they talk about how they chose themselves in, that they were elected because they did something.
Now to top that off and shine more light on the fact they always have themselves at the forefront @friend of thinks scripture commences with man and "free will."
Nope, it commences with Almighty God.
We show how salvation is all of God, all of grace, and they talk about how they chose themselves in, that they were elected because they did something.
Now to top that off and shine more light on the fact they always have themselves at the forefront @friend of thinks scripture commences with man and "free will."
Nope, it commences with Almighty God.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Wow, you're unable to make the connection to Romans 5? Ok! It's right there!
Go deal with the texts I gave you. I'll be waiting for you to address each of them since they deny specifically your "choose yourself to salvation" error. Again, I'll be waiting.
Why dont you just tell me how you think Romans 5 supports the idea that God didn't give us free will. I'll be waiting.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
The Christ and Apostle Paul vehemently disagree with you.
“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth."[Matthew 6:24] Here the Christ says no one can serve two masters. If one has a master, then they are a slave. Slaves are not free to do their own will, but their master's will. When we were lost, we were enslaved to sin and also Satan. The Christ also said 31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. 36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”[John 8] Pay careful attention to John 8:34 my friend. The lost are slave of sin and slaves are not free.
Then Apostle Paul wrote 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.[Romans 6] Again, those who are saved are no longer slaves to sin. We have been set free from the bondage(enslavement) of sin by the Christ. He also wrote this in the same chapter 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.[Romans 6] Again, the saved have been set free from the enslavement of sin and Satan by the Christ. Our wills were not free while we were enslaved to Satan. As the Christ so poignantly stated it " and the truth will make you free.”[John 8:32b]
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