Oh I believe it......but faith GROWS from the measure of the deposit we received, as the bible teaches, which unfortunately is not how you teach it. Little mustard seed growing into a tree of life. Our small beginnings of our few talents of faith and grace being invested to gain more. Not despising those small beginnings as you do.
By Love Serve One Another
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Back to the drawing board again Epi...this with blow your doctrine scheme not just out of the water, out of this real world you don't seem to relate to or even live in. About righteousness and the saints again...
According to the Bible, the righteousness of the saints is not something that we can achieve on our own, but rather it is a gift from God, given to us through faith in Jesus Christ. In the book of Revelation, it is written that the righteous acts of the saints are what clothe them in fine linen, making them radiant and beautiful in God’s sight (Revelation 19:8).
The Bible teaches that the righteousness of the saints is not just a matter of external behavior, but rather it is a matter of the heart. It is a state of being that is characterized by a deep love for God and a desire to please Him in all that we do. This is the true fear of God, not your disturbing, judgmental and chilling version you keep parading around.
In the book of Psalm 119, the psalmist writes, “Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Your law is truth” (Psalm 119:142). This verse highlights the idea that God’s righteousness is not just a temporary or fleeting thing, but rather it is an eternal and unchanging reality.
In the New Testament, Jesus teaches that the righteousness of the saints is not just a matter of keeping the law, but rather it is a matter of having a heart that is pure and true. He says, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength” (Mark 12:30).
This is the essence of the righteousness of the saints, and it is something that is available to all who put their faith in Jesus Christ. And those that apply this and live this way in heart will surely wear these white robes!
Something to think about Episkopos....the Spirit of God would not create SCHISM between the foundation and rest of the building. That's what compartmentalizing things that need to be in spirit does.
You haven't yet come to grips with the the perils of religious certainty. I have talked to SO MANY over the years...and hardly anyone takes the warnings seriously. Everybody thinks the ones who fail and are cut off...is about someone else.
In a war young men don't think they are going to die...and yet so many do. What we think and what really happens have no connection except in the minds of those who have not lived long enough or deeply enough to fear what the outcome might be.
With the Holy Spirit one gets a sense of actual eternal reality. Does anyone want to live in an eternity in outer darkness as SO MANY will? You would think it was a walk in the park based on the lack of care that is generated by the very sobering warnings towards those who follow Christ but who are rejected...for iniquity's sake. If we fail both holiness AND righteousness...we will be homeless forever. Maybe read up on Luke 16...and the unjust steward.
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So Epi when and how did you acquire the Zoe life? And what does it do for you today that might be different from a mature believer in Christ?
I thought I might as well get this out from you so all can read it...
I thought I might as well get this out from you so all can read it...
The Zoe life is an eternal life...a God life..a Jesus life. This is received when we are filled with the Spirit...as Jesus said...rivers of living water flowing out of the belly.
What people confuse this with is psuche life...the soul life...the ego life. People are led to believe that one can hold on to one's life AND be seated with Christ. But that's not true. One needs to let go of the temporal soul life in order to have Zoe life. Jesus said he who tries to save his life (psuche) will lose it. One needs to lose the soul life (not the body life...bios) in order to enter into Zoe life. So many believe that one cannot have eternal life (Zoe) while a person is still in a living body (bios). But that is not true.
I began the Christian walk in 1980 by being baptized in the Spirit...walking in the spiritual kingdom realm.
Having experienced what Paul experienced...I relate to the gospel and to the way of God in Christ...having been crucified to walk as a dead man. Having been taken into the kingdom walk...to remain there the second time for over 2 years. In the disciple training God peels away the layers of sin like an onion...and I was and am surprised at how deeply embedded the sin nature is in the soul. Only the power of the cross of Christ can kill it...stick it to a wall...liberate us from the influence of the carnal flesh. By kill I mean separated from us. It's always waiting to rejoin the body when we fail grace. Now I use a mature terminology that indoctrinated people will react to...but I use that terminology to simplify the process....to make what seems impossible become understandable. Hence, I say the higher walk...which is in the perfection of Christ...whereby our own life and ego are separated from us...stuck on a wall....crucified.
Mature? I'm still in training. And I have been at the wilderness level..back again...for over 20 years now. I hope to enter back into the higher walk before I die...having been thoroughly trained...
I have a LOT of experience with spiritual life...and training. I have been given understanding of the Christian life on both levels...in the ways (plural) of God. Dogmatic religion gets in the way of the upward calling...as it is artificial...not according to life and power. But it is very seductive...to think one can be saved while still clinging to the soul life.
I always answer to the whole forum. You never know if faith will be quickened. :)
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Well I agree with your post here, a rarity for me. And I live this Godly life in the spirit today as well. It's a matter of the heart and the dynamics of my active faith, not to boast, as I did not lay this foundation, it was God and EVENTUALLY the Son of God. I just grabbed it and ran with it...
I've been there many times and mostly continue in this realm as you might say, today. I do know this experience I go there many times and its when I find more and longer peace in Christ. I always get an overwhelming physical sensation and the shivers down my spine, and many times from head to toe.
I can write quite a bit about this apex Zoe life as every believer is intended to live...and something you might not agree with me on , that I do know I have salvation today, and can never lose it. even though not realized yet out of this body. I have no hesitation saying this as fact.
Thanks for your input. Now this life is very scriptural indeed.
I'm always saying the same thing. What I don't talk about so much is the blessings received in the wilderness walk. Times of refreshing...of visitation...of blessing. I don't despair in the "lower walk" because the training is necessary to back up a character that must be Christ-like to remain in the Spirit when called into it. It is the lack of maturity that gets us booted out of the Spirit and back into a walk in one's own strength. For me, the times of blessing are NOT Zoe life. Zoe life is found in Zion by the keeping power of God...where one stays in that rest for years at a time...not just minutes or hours. Minutes or hours is a visitation...a time of refreshing.
Last fall I was riding my bike with my wife and as I came to a vast corn field I felt surrounded by an eternal presence of love and profound peace...I identified with the saints ...like Paul and David who experienced that holy presence. Not that I was covered by it...no, just surrounded by it. And this was such a blessing. It lasted for about 5 minutes. But I couldn't wait to get back over there this year. Of course it had nothing to do with a physical place...but the blessing I see as a time of refreshing in the wilderness. During this time I saw nothing supernatural or heard anything. It was just an amazing presence of love and eternal peace.
And I forgot to say a few more words on this great life in Christ. I need to hit the sack very soon..
I still do not agree with your use of a type of dual track or low/high walk idea. It is really not in scripture and can be very confusing, in it explanation without being explained or done patiently and clearly; as it comes off as an elitist idea, that God never intended for the Zoe life to be.... It is is the same one personal walk with its highs and lows if you will. And I still believe you might want to read that the 'fear of God' is not just one definition for all situations, The context of its usage matters greatly.
That's it for now Epi...night
And you assume too much about people...they do walk with God, at his place, where he is, as I do, many on this site, and we are all Westerners....labelling folks is a bad thing to do, as you used this labelling as a wedge, to compare and contrast and to define this Zoe life and one of an immature walk in Christ...and they ands I still do not wander in any wilderness either....bye
I still do not agree with your use of a type of dual track or low/high walk idea. It is really not in scripture and can be very confusing, in it explanation without being explained or done patiently and clearly; as it comes off as an elitist idea, that God never intended for the Zoe life to be.... It is is the same one personal walk with its highs and lows if you will. And I still believe you might want to read that the 'fear of God' is not just one definition for all situations, The context of its usage matters greatly.
That's it for now Epi...night
And you assume too much about people...they do walk with God, at his place, where he is, as I do, many on this site, and we are all Westerners....labelling folks is a bad thing to do, as you used this labelling as a wedge, to compare and contrast and to define this Zoe life and one of an immature walk in Christ...and they ands I still do not wander in any wilderness either....bye
Yes we need to take everything seriously, and be humble and don't take things for granted, I don't disagree with that. And one thing that God takes a dim view of is partitioning His land (schism in the body). Anyone doing that in their understanding and in their doctrine might want to re-examine some things I would think.
This might be food for thought. It seems from scripture that there are greater and lesser in the kingdom of heaven, much like life in the world mirrors that reality. Our King has "threescore queens, fourscore concubines and virgins without number" in His harem/kingdom. His "queens" are fully consecrated, committed, sanctified, and thus married to the King. The concubines are on an intimate footing with the King though I think the idea is that they are not as fully consecrated and sanctified and thus are not married to Him like His "queens". The virgins are members of the King's household/kingdom, but not on an intimate footing with the King (assume we can take it that while in this life some may yet be in the future, others may not - but they all belong to Him....and some He may eventually send back home, while others will remain serving the King).
Sng of Songs 6
8 There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
9 My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.
10 Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?
Matt 20
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Looks like those young men had ambitions, lol...I'm guessing they put their mother up to that, going by scriptural precedence. But how far each individual will go in the Lord seems to depend partly on us, on our obedience and willingness and "mettle" as it were, but also on His choice and calling. Eg, Jesus only chose 12 to be His disciples and apostles out of all Israel. Doesn't mean everyone else in the kingdom isn't loved and accepted by God, but I believe for a lot of reasons everyone has a different place in it.
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@Episkopos ....more awake now...
Even though I agree with you on the Zoe God-like life, and I have, and continue to experience more of it over time, I still have issues with your urgent message that is not as urgent as you may think. It is what and how you pitch your message, essentially about this zoe life that continues to catch my attention, and others. And it does come off to me at least that you have created a new and false gospel. I can see why some others sense the same thing.
As the thread says, 'By love serve one another,' then this in my input.
I object strongly with the idea and some of your words surrounding it, that you say one must go 'into Christ' or to attain this righteousness of God and /or even extra grace and extra faith to somehow boost someone into this very confusing and misleading expression, 'higher walk.' And what you are trying to describe all along is how to experience this zoe life, as you have experienced it.
As I read scripture and by my personal testimony, I do not have to do anything Epi, in my one personal walk in this life. No extra work or anything like that is necessary on my part to experience this good life. It is based on two things, or spiritual pillars, and only two things. 1. my grounded faith that has become more dynamic over time, and 2., the Spirit of God within me as the potter, who is still molding me to his Son's spirit, to become more like him.
So, yes, I do choose to know God more everyday when I spend time (that leads to the fear of God) in thought and prayer that is not complicated and usually short; and especially because of my past experiences and trials. Got humbled a lot...amen
So even when I did my morning walk this morning, and passed by a neighbor in serious need, I suddenly was overcome by the Spirit of God, it came upon me suddenly as it usually does. I began saying a few words from my heart, about this community neighbor as he is having surgery next week. And during these moments, and I can never explain them completely, I experienced thrills and chills or over my body, usually starting from my head, as I kept my same stride going down the road.
I did not have to go to any place or to go 'into Christ' for more 'power.' I trust and now expect the Spirit of God everyday in my life, to do these thing in me as the new normal. It's my faith that drives me forward, into this zoe life of God that you designate as a completely new walk, as this 'higher walk.'
Now saying this, I do know you concern, and mine to a certain extent, that those bound to the traditional routine spoon-fed, more religious type of Christian indoctrination, makes it more difficult for these believers to experience this zoe life. They will not mature and develop in Spirit the same way to have this 'more real' life experience in their walk.
Still, I believe it's God who will do what he does with his children..
Say your peace and then move on is what I would do rather that wrestle with folks and attempt to bend them to seeing/experiencing what you have seen. And then your support scripture does not always match...
Even though I agree with you on the Zoe God-like life, and I have, and continue to experience more of it over time, I still have issues with your urgent message that is not as urgent as you may think. It is what and how you pitch your message, essentially about this zoe life that continues to catch my attention, and others. And it does come off to me at least that you have created a new and false gospel. I can see why some others sense the same thing.
As the thread says, 'By love serve one another,' then this in my input.
I object strongly with the idea and some of your words surrounding it, that you say one must go 'into Christ' or to attain this righteousness of God and /or even extra grace and extra faith to somehow boost someone into this very confusing and misleading expression, 'higher walk.' And what you are trying to describe all along is how to experience this zoe life, as you have experienced it.
As I read scripture and by my personal testimony, I do not have to do anything Epi, in my one personal walk in this life. No extra work or anything like that is necessary on my part to experience this good life. It is based on two things, or spiritual pillars, and only two things. 1. my grounded faith that has become more dynamic over time, and 2., the Spirit of God within me as the potter, who is still molding me to his Son's spirit, to become more like him.
So, yes, I do choose to know God more everyday when I spend time (that leads to the fear of God) in thought and prayer that is not complicated and usually short; and especially because of my past experiences and trials. Got humbled a lot...amen
So even when I did my morning walk this morning, and passed by a neighbor in serious need, I suddenly was overcome by the Spirit of God, it came upon me suddenly as it usually does. I began saying a few words from my heart, about this community neighbor as he is having surgery next week. And during these moments, and I can never explain them completely, I experienced thrills and chills or over my body, usually starting from my head, as I kept my same stride going down the road.
I did not have to go to any place or to go 'into Christ' for more 'power.' I trust and now expect the Spirit of God everyday in my life, to do these thing in me as the new normal. It's my faith that drives me forward, into this zoe life of God that you designate as a completely new walk, as this 'higher walk.'
Now saying this, I do know you concern, and mine to a certain extent, that those bound to the traditional routine spoon-fed, more religious type of Christian indoctrination, makes it more difficult for these believers to experience this zoe life. They will not mature and develop in Spirit the same way to have this 'more real' life experience in their walk.
Still, I believe it's God who will do what he does with his children..
Say your peace and then move on is what I would do rather that wrestle with folks and attempt to bend them to seeing/experiencing what you have seen. And then your support scripture does not always match...
Amen. For what do we have that we didn't receive? Nothing that we have that is worth keeping is of our own, but is of the Lord, his Spirit
I even believe we need to die to our "own" righteousness per se just as much as to sin. The Tree of Knowledge of GOOD as well as Evil was never something we were commanded to eat from.
Well these two, of sin and our carnality/self morality go hand in hand. We do die to them as our faith increases, as seen in the fruit we produce. It is so addictive.
God loves humility. But He hates pride. We can combine a religious experience...even spiritual experience with a now puffed up ego. When dealing with holiness, the stakes are raised MUCH higher. So that blasphemy against the living holy Spirit will never be forgiven. It's a death sentence. We see the same thing with Uzzah and the cart. Uzzah, otherwise a good man...transgressed God's holiness....and was struck down. So we need to be very careful when dealing with holy things. The Christian walk, in its full resolution, is according to holiness. So we have to learn to treat those things with the appropriate fear and respect.
A gospel of glory and holiness mixed in with humility and fear IS the true gospel. A divine balance of mercy and truth. ALL the ways of God are mercy and truth. It is the absence of this balance that brings a false gospel.
All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies Ps. 25:10
The balance is seen here..
“So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was being built up. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it multiplied.”
– Acts 9:31
To think for one second that I'm preaching a false gospel PROVES that the gospel that accusing person is leveling at me in fact goes back on them. People can no longer discern the true gospel...which is based on power, selfless love, and an intimacy with God through translation into the eternal kingdom realm...to walk as Jesus walked.
Peter said in his letter..."grace be multiplied to you".
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all.
Here, multiplied means to increase. If we already have the fulness of grace at the outset, it would be wrong to suggest that there is MORE grace. But that is exactly the true gospel..which is grace ON grace. An initial installment and then the full measure leading to the very fulness of God.
“And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.” John 1:16
I don't take anyone seriously who denies the truth about the higher walk...as these cannot show that such a walk DOESN'T exist...quite the opposite. It's like trying to prove to an atheist that there's a God. There is SO MUCH testimony...throughout the bible...beginning with Adam...on through Enoch (pleasing God and being translated as an example of what was to come for the NT saints)...and into the New Covenant where such intimacy is spoken of by the apostles.
To me the idea of limiting God to what we have experienced is VERY foolish. One must consider the depth of walk of such men as Paul and Peter. Only a religious hubris would claim that they walk at the same level without any persecution, without humility and fear. Without any sense of eternal reality. Are people speaking from the throne room of God?...or just a religious opinion, or fuzzy feeling???
Strive to enter in through the narrow door.
I would say..on my own thread, that you should do as you suggest to me. Say your peace and move on. Getting things backward seems to be contagious around here. :)
Obstinate and arrogance to the end.. back on your high horse again...pride?.....love?...you are your own worst enemy Epi in a reversal in meaning. With much self-doubt in your words, and an overbearing criticism of yourself, that you constantly project onto others, and myself, as being mine or theirs. It will all catch up with you and it won't end nicely.
Because I won't compromise the truth? The truth is not about me...and you shouldn't make it about you, whereby you get offended when a correction is brought forth. There is no reason ever for compromising the truth. Unless you had what you accuse me of...you wouldn't take the biblical testimony as something against you.Obstinate and arrogance to the end.. back on your high horse again...pride?.....love?...you are your own worst enemy Epi in a reversal in meaning. With much self-doubt in your words, and an overbearing criticism of yourself, that you constantly project onto others, and myself, as being mine or theirs. It will all catch up with you and it won't end nicely.
It all depends on what part of you...in your mixture...is responding. Is it from the outer man that hates the cross? Or is it from the inner man that is looking to be made free from the soul attachment to the carnal ways of the soul that bring sin and death?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
exactly sister . the SPIRIT of GOD would not therefore Deny the FOUNDATION ITSELF . the need to BELIEVE ON HE
CHRIST JESUS , would not be getting DENIED by THE SPIRIT . only another spirit would ever dare to do such a thing .
What spirit do you think that cometh of ........
a hint , whosoever denies that JESUS IS THE CHRIST ...................................
anti christ . This end time love inclusive religoin IS OF ANTI CHRIST TO MERGE THE WORLD and HER RELIGOINS
to be AS ONE . TO work as ONE , unifying under what they think is GOD , only , yoo hoo , IT AINT GOD
it the dragon . Exactly sister . The devil knows how to lie and to decieve . Exactly sister .
No problem with holiness. But to deny the gospel...which includes what Jesus has wrought in the heart of the born again believer and imputes to us as His children and heirs, even while we endeavour to apprehend and grow up into it all in real time......has to be a false gospel.
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