Born again - Before, or After, the Call?

[St. SteVen]

"Man chooses that which is according to his nature,
and therefore before he will ever choose or prefer that
which is divine and spiritual, a new nature must be imparted to him;
in other words, he must be born again.

Let me appeal to the actual experience of the reader of these lines.
Was there not a time when you were unwilling to come to Christ?
There was. Since then you have come to Him.

Are you now prepared to give Him all the glory for that (Ps 115:1)?
Do you not acknowledge that you came to Christ because the Holy Spirit
brought you from unwillingness to willingness?" - J. Preston Eby

Source: Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

 

[GISMYS_7]

God's will====

1 Timothy 2:4-6​

God's will===4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[dev553344]

Born again is Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Becoming knowledgeable of God and His Glorious Spirit. And desiring to be immersed in the Holy Spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

Born again is Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Becoming knowledgeable of God and His Glorious Spirit. And desiring to be immersed in the Holy Spirit.

My view is that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent event to a renewed relationship with God.
Like the outpouring in the second chapter of Acts. They already had the renewed relationship with God.

 

[dev553344]

My view is that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent event to a renewed relationship with God.
Like the outpouring in the second chapter of Acts. They already had the renewed relationship with God.

Maybe, don't really know, I was sort of guessing, but I have felt the spirit really strong a couple times in my life with messages from God. I think that was also a baptism because it was a pouring of the spirit with intensity. But perhaps it was just God making sure I knew it was him?

 

[St. SteVen]

Maybe, don't really know, I was sort of guessing, but I have felt the spirit really strong a couple times in my life with messages from God. I think that was also a baptism because it was a pouring of the spirit with intensity. But perhaps it was just God making sure I knew it was him?

That's a good testimony, thanks.
Sorry, I was getting technical with you. I am pretty well studied in that area. Here's why...

I was raised evangelical, but always knew there was more to the Holy Spirit than what I was being taught at church.
Eventually I joined a church that knew more about the Holy Spirit. But they put me to work teaching Adult Sunday School.
They needed someone with my Bible knowledge, I guess.

So, I had to dig out the info myself, because they were really no help at all. - LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

"Man chooses that which is according to his nature,
and therefore before he will ever choose or prefer that
which is divine and spiritual, a new nature must be imparted to him;
in other words, he must be born again.

Let me appeal to the actual experience of the reader of these lines.
Was there not a time when you were unwilling to come to Christ?
There was. Since then you have come to Him.

Are you now prepared to give Him all the glory for that (Ps 115:1)?
Do you not acknowledge that you came to Christ because the Holy Spirit
brought you from unwillingness to willingness?" - J. Preston Eby

Source: Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

 

[Ritajanice]

Unwillingness to willingness makes no sense to me....because of the way I became Born Again.

It only makes sense when God after I became Born Again showed me his will/ spoke to my heart regarding an area in my life.

I said No way, I didn’t know at the time I was being disobedient to Gods calling as I was a new Babe...I wish I could share unfortunately I can’t maybe one day....there are two of us involved....we both had to come to submission...only the Spirit at work in us could bring us to that place....which he now has...we are both in harmony with the will of God...it has taken 32 years to get us to this place....my testimony and belief...I pray God allows me to share one day....when it comes to pass, which I know it will 100% .

I became Born Again completely and utterly out of the blue...as Gods word says, he’s like the wind , you never know the time or place that he will Birth you in His Spirit.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.....that’s how I relate to the Living spiritual rebirth, my testimony is private ,I’ve shared it on here before and I don’t intend to share it again..


I was on my bed sobbing my heart out, listening to secular music, a band called Roxette, the song was called it must have been Love.

All of my life I have been starved of Love...never knew it at the time, not until God via His Spirit,came into me as he was coming in through my body, His spirit testifies with my spirit that I was Born Again / His child...he birthed my spirit into His, Spirit gives birth to spirit ....His Spirit spoke to my spirit, straight away I knew I was Born Again ..that was all I knew.

It blew my socks off that Living Heart revelation from His Spirit to my spirit....he has taken up residence in my spirit, there he has resided for nearly 33 years...I was also given the gift of Faith that is very much Alive and Active, a manifestation of the Spirit...

My faith because it was God given has grown beyond my comprehension.....I know he is in every single situation in my life...100%...

I did not choose God he chose me, according to his purpose and plan....a Born Again Glorifies the Father, why because they have the witness the Holy Spirit who Glorifies the Father through us...how could I possibly know Jesus even existed, without becoming Born Of The Spirit....?

Only the Spirit can be a witness to the Father...how would I know how to witness of the Father without the indwelling Holy Spirit.

My testimony and belief 100% never ever changed....I know the evening and the bed I was sobbing my heart out....when God came to me in His Mercy.....

He misses NOTHING and I will never be able to thank him enough for sending His only Son to that cross and died an horrific death..all for a wretched sinner like me....I also never knew I was a sinner when I was in the carnal nature...not until I received that new nature...my sins have all been forgiven past, present and future.

I have been Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed, by the Living word of God.

Hallelujah!!!...and Praise God!!

 

[St. SteVen]

Great post, thanks!
What do you make of this?

John 6:44 NIV
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

]

 

[Ritajanice]

Great post, thanks!
What do you make of this?

John 6:44 NIV
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

]

He draws us to Jesus doesn’t He, we don’t even know that he’s drawing us, well I didn’t, did you know the Father was drawing you to Jesus?

What does raise them up at the last day mean?xx

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
My view is that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a subsequent event to a renewed relationship with God.
Like the outpouring in the second chapter of Acts. They already had the renewed relationship with God.

Maybe, don't really know, I was sort of guessing, but I have felt the spirit really strong a couple times in my life with messages from God. I think that was also a baptism because it was a pouring of the spirit with intensity. But perhaps it was just God making sure I knew it was him?

Sorry for the delayed response. Your post #5.

Based on your testimony of manifestations of the Holy Spirit in your life, I would say that you have the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
We don't have to understand it to receive it. Best example I can think of is the House of Cornelius.

Acts 10:44-46 NIV
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit
had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. ...

/

 

[DJT_47]

"Man chooses that which is according to his nature,
and therefore before he will ever choose or prefer that
which is divine and spiritual, a new nature must be imparted to him;
in other words, he must be born again.

Let me appeal to the actual experience of the reader of these lines.
Was there not a time when you were unwilling to come to Christ?
There was. Since then you have come to Him.

Are you now prepared to give Him all the glory for that (Ps 115:1)?
Do you not acknowledge that you came to Christ because the Holy Spirit
brought you from unwillingness to willingness?" - J. Preston Eby

Source: Man Is A Free Moral Agent: Just What Do You Mean Man is A Free Moral Agent; The Sinner Must Decide; The Shepherd Seeks The Sheep; The Will Of Man; I Will Draw All Men Unto Me; By One Man

You're born again at the same time you become a Christian, a child of God, and part of the body of Christ which is his church, and that's when you're baptized into it. This is subsequent to your belief.

 

[gordon7]

Born unto us is a child, a Son given, the Mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace.

The light shined in darkness, the darkness did not understand it. A man sent from God, John came to bear witness of the light, THAT ALL MEN THROUGH HIM ( through the light) MIGHT BELIEVE.


He was in the world, and the world did not know Him.

HIs own did not receive Him, but who received Him, He gave them power to become the sons of God. ( EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME/BORN OF GOD.)

The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us ( among the apostles) and we beheld HIs glory, the glory of the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father, FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH...


Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

You're born again at the same time you become a Christian, a child of God, and part of the body of Christ which is his church, and that's when you're baptized into it. This is subsequent to your belief.

I'm not following the order of events here. Belief > Born again/become a Christian > Baptism?
What does it mean to become a Christian?

]

 

[Behold]

Before you Believe in Jesus, you have to hear about Jesus.

So, in comes the preacher, or whatever means you are told about Jesus.

Can be a Bible you read.
Maybe your next door neighbor witnessed to you.
Maybe you read a "Chick Tract".
Can be a Movie you watched.
Can be a forum Thread.
Maybe you heard about Jesus in SCHOOL.

So, at some point you have to hear about the ONE you are to Believe in by Faith.

And at the same time, worldwide, Jesus is doing this..

"If i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will DRAW (call) all people to me".

See that Call ?? See that "DRAWING"? That is what the Holy Spirit does, all the time, and specifically once you've HEARD the Gospel.
Once you've HEARD about Jesus., and that 'Hearing" can be multifaceted.... Maybe you heard about Jesus in school, or by watching a Movie....... or by reading a bible....

You HEARD About Him, before you can BELIEVE in Him... And the Holy Spirit then at some point.......maybe the day you heard or much later, reveals that you need to be saved. That you need to BELIEVE in Jesus.

And at THAT POINT< you have "come to the knowledge of the Truth".. but you have not TRUSTED IT, yet....

See that?

The Holy Spirit REVEALS this to you, and then what you do, is your CHOICE......... you can believe or you can wait, etc,etc,etc.

Reader.....How many KNEW it was true, and waited, and died.. and are now in Hell and they can't have that back.......


The NT says that "now is the time"... and that is because once you KNOW its true, you should not wait, because Hebrews 9:27 is coming for you, and you dont know when that is going to happen...

 

[DJT_47]

I'm not following the order of events here. Belief > Born again/become a Christian > Baptism?
What does it mean to become a Christian?

]

It all happens at the same time. Read Acts 2:38-47. They, believed, were told to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, upon which they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and were added to the body of Christ by the which is the church per verse 47.

You aren't a Christian by simply your belief, as belief alone doesn't save you, but your belief does lead to obedience; Mark 16:15-16 infers that. Belief alone doesn't make you a Christian. Devil's believe. And the scriptures teach we become children of God by adoption. It all happens at the same time.

 

[Behold]

It all happens at the same time. Read Acts 2:38-47. They, believed, were told to repent and be baptized

That's not Paul's Gospel.

And Peter who was preaching to them "repent and be baptized" was answering a question they asked..

"What shall we do"... and that question those JEWS asked, was because Peter told them they murdered their messiah"..

"what shall we do Peter"..

"repent of that SIN, and get wet".

See that?

That is not the Gospel.

Here is the Gospel :

"ALL that call on the Name of Jesus , shall be saved"..

"Faith comes by HEARING"... this.. = "The Preaching of the CROSS.......is THE POWER OF GOD.. .unto SALVATiON....for everyone who BELIEVES"... (not just the elect) but EVERYONE who Believes.

That's John 3:16

 

[St. SteVen]

It all happens at the same time. Read Acts 2:38-47. They, believed, were told to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, upon which they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and were added to the body of Christ by the which is the church per verse 47.

"It all happens at the same time." ???

But you just wrote:

You're born again at the same time you become a Christian, a child of God, and part of the body of Christ which is his church, and that's when you're baptized into it. This is subsequent to your belief.

"This is subsequent to your belief." ???

The model in Acts chapter 2 falls apart as we continue through the book of Acts. IMHO

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

The baptized believers in Samaria had not received the Holy Spirit. Why?
At the house of Cornelius the gentiles received the Holy Spirit while Peter was still preaching.
Then they were baptized.

The Apostle Paul received the Holy Spirit when Ananias )not an Apostle) laid hands on him.
Then he was baptized. The disciples in Ephesus received the Holy Spirit when Paul laid hands on them.
This was after they were re-baptized in Jesus' name.

All this to say that these things are unpredictable. There is no formula.

]