Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[Heb 13:8]

Where does it say "body of Christ"? This is just you adding onto events prophesied in the book that isn't there. Its referring to a specific individual ruling the nations, not a group. Isaiah makes this very clear, this isn't up for anyone's own personal interpretation. It is as plain as day who is being referred to.

Dcopy, the woman, child and dragon are descriptions of corporate entities. Symbolism Dcopy.

The "church" as you call it doesn't get rapture'd first while the Jews just get left behind.

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest (loipos) of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

loipos: the rest, the remaining
Original Word: λοιπός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: loipos
Phonetic Spelling: (loy-poy')
Short Definition: left, left behind, the remainder
Definition: left, left behind, the remainder, the rest, the others.

The "church" isn't anymore special in Gods eyes than the Jews. I don't like repeating myself, because some people just can't take a hint, and we already kind of veered off the subject of this thread anyway.

Dcopy, the church was conceived at Pentecost 2000 years ago, not birthed. God bless.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of my faith. While I believe God keeps us, Believers still have a responsibility to be on guard and aware of the enemy. The Christian life is not all rainbows and butterflies, it is warfare

That's all good.
But how about exegeting the verse I gave you?
Again...

Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

What does "IF indeed you continue in the faith" .mean or what does it refer to?
Paul is saying you perhaps may not continue in the faith...

 

[GodsGrace]

1 Corinthians 15:57 - But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our LORD Jesus Christ.

Grace and not by works. Like I mentioned before, if you do anything to change the condition of your salvation
then it was by works and you hold the power; not God. If the names were recorded before the creation of the world
then it was a done deal before a single day had passed.
if you believe in God's full and complete foreknowledge, this should not be an issue. He already knew.

it is impossible for man to have salvation, it is only possible with God (Matt. 19:26)
If salvation is impossible for man then why do you believe it's possible for you maintain an impossible condition?
None of us can get to Heaven and say we did something to influence our being there, then it is not by grace.

I know you have to believe that God saved you with absolutely no input from you or He would just completely lose His sovereignty, but names that are written in the book of Life can also be blotted out. I gave you two scriptures.

You can only blot out something that was written in the first place.
Could you show me where it says they could Not be blotted out?

 

[APAK]

An unbeliever of evil intent is relentless to accuse a believer that they are hypocritical and can lose their salvation. They say they are sinners like everyone else, so yet over it. They say, look at this verse, see..!

(Col 1:23) If indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to all creation under heaven. Of which I Paul was made a servant, (NEV)

They will say look at this verse (Col 1:23), it says you must continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

They say you cannot continue in faith and be firmly grounded in the gospel 100% of the time so you must lose your salvation at some time! The unbeliever is counting on it!

This is the usual accusation and it comes from the teachings and doctrines of demons.

What the unbeliever fails to notice is the they do not know what they are saying. They will NEVER know!

First, a fake believer of apostacy like themselves will taste or try it (faith and gospel belief) out for a while and stop having faith in Christ and the gospel. They think that all believers are like them and experience the same things.

A believer who has the spirit of God in their heart will continue hanging on to Christ and the words of gospel because their heart is being transformed to a likeness of Christ. They know it and feel it, not necessarily every moment or every day.

Sin or the lack of sin had nothing to do with their continued faith they have in their Lord and savior.

Not one believer is perfect and can be walking in the spirit 100% of the time or in faith 100% of the time. If an unbeliever thinks that a believer should be always 100% in firm faith, always in the spirit, it is a lie and they deceive themselves.

When the dust settled in the battles of living in this world and in this flesh, that weakens a believer’s spirit and faith, they dust themselves off and continue their faith in Christ. A believer does not permanently STOP having faith in their savior, only unbelievers do this, every time. This is the signature of an apostate or a professing believer that does not possess a transforming heart to the likeness of Christ. Most unbelievers are not intellectually challenged in scripture, they are spiritually challenged in scripture. The spirit of God does not speak to them for understanding the truth.

There is no loss of salvation for a true believer noted in Col 1:23 as in other scripture passages or verses.

Believers just continue forward to the prize. Maybe for some recovery is very slowly, for some very fast. Their endurance though is for life. They CONTINUE ON! They are overcomers and shall walk in ‘white robes.’

Bless all,

APAK

 

[APAK]

Only the deceiver or unbeliever concludes that a believer’s ID can be erased from the record of eternal life. They say because there is no scripture that says otherwise is proof that the believer can lose their salvation and thus eternal life. They are counting on it!

What pride and arrogance possesses such a person to says such a foolish and nonsensical statement?

There is no scripture that explicitly or implicitly says that a believer is denied eternal life. No scripture says a believer’s ID is blotted out for eternal life.

Only those with intellectual lenses can contrive such scriptural meaning(s).

However, there is scripture that explicitly and implicitly says that an unbeliever is denied eternal life, always.

As the accuser says,” You can only blot out something that was written in the first place.” Very true, and it always applies to the unbeliever.

From the start, ALL mankind’s names are written in the record of life. The erasing process begins when the spirit knows the heart of a person will never change to God and Christ. They had free-will remember, and deceived themselves with evil thoughts.

Rev 3:5 below applies to the believer as the overcomer - Jesus will NEVER consider denying eternal life to his own. How could he deny himself?

(Rev 3:5) He that overcomes shall thus be dressed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life; and I will confess his name before my Father and before His angels.

Rev 21:17 below applies to the unbeliever - whether a professing believer or not. Their names have been erased.

(Rev 21:27) There shall in no way enter into it anything unclean, or he that makes an abomination and a lie, but only they that are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Blessings to all that come to God from the heart and not the head


APAK

 

[Dcopymope]

Dcopy, the woman, child and dragon are descriptions of corporate entities. Symbolism Dcopy.

......Yeah, I get they are symbolic, never said they weren't, doesn't prove your point at all.

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest (loipos) of her offspring--those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Satan wages war against the 144,000 Jews in Israel who were sealed with the seal of God. This is the woman he wages war against, not the "church". At no does it even imply that the gentile believer gets whisked out of the way during this period. If you bother to read the chapters preceding this, the dragon, and the beast were already waging war against the gentile believer. It also makes this very clear in later chapters that recalls this time period.

The saints killed before the Great Tribulation era:

(Revelation 6:9-11) "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: {10} And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? {11} And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Should be killed as they were, not rapture'd.


The saints killed during the Great Tribulation:

(Revelation 7:9-10) "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; {10} And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.".............

(Revelation 7:13-14) "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? {14} And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

(Revelation 15:1-2) "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. {2} And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

They came out of the great tribulation era, not of out of the pre-tribulation era. And the key word here is 'victory'. You cannot claim to have victory over something that you never had to face to start with. So when it states the beast made war against the saints in Revelation 13, John isn't referring only to the Jewish saints, because the whole chapter is a retelling of the Great Tribulation described in previous chapters.

Dcopy, the church was conceived at Pentecost 2000 years ago, not birthed. God bless.

......Never said it was birthed, but I understand that you like to put words in my mouth, to twist what I said to fit your own paradigm, typical of this site. No, the church was not birthed 2,000 years ago, but Jesus Christ was the one birthed out of Israel, the woman. You'll either accept what is plainly written or you won't. It makes very little difference to me.

........oh and "God bless" to you too.

 

[Stranger]

Everything you've said is correct and accepted theology by the mainstream.

I just would like to add that the verses the other posts speaks about regarding the dead knowing nothing; their emotions are perished; etc... go back to the O.T.
Some in the O.T. times did not believe in life after death, for example neither did the Sadducees.

Revelation can be ongoing, as indeed Jesus was the ultimate revelation of God and HE spoke of life after death and what it would be like. This is what we're to go by.
Either Jesus spoke the truth, or He lied.
He said there is a place for those born of God, and a place for the evil.
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."

And what could be more clear than Mathew 25:46?
46“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Jesus said the two verses above. This is all we need to believe; who could know better than Jesus?

I agree, who would know better than Jesus.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I was drawing a line between where we do and do not agree - not being deceptive.
I'm going to slow this thing down to a crawl for you so absolutely no one can make a mistake whatsoever. Begin with Genesis 2:7:

1) "God formed Man of the Dust of the Ground (component #1 = Body),

2) ...breathed into his nostrils the Breath aka Spirit of Life (component #2 = God's Breath/Spirit),

3) ...and Man became a Living Soul (Resulting Whole produced from two above parts = Living Soul aka Person

Man was not given a Soul (as he was given the components Body and Breath/Spirit of God) - Man became a "Soul".
The "Soul" is not a component of Man - the Soul IS a Man.
Man became a Soul.
Man became a Soul.
Man became a Soul.
Man BECAME a Soul.
MAN BECAME A SOUL.

4) Repeat steps 1 - 3
Please, just read the context of Proverbs 20:27, will you?

"The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD [...and here now is the context] searching all the inward parts of the belly."

​

Question: Who does the searching of the heart of Man - God or Man? Over and over and over, we read in Scripture that it's God Himself Who searches the heart of Man. Man is never told to examine his heart because it is deceitful and tells him lies - however, man is indeed repeatedly told to examine his actions to see if they line up with God's Law in His Word, which cannot lie.

Therefore, when you read "spirit of man...searches" in Proverbs 20:27, simply understand that here "spirit" is component #2 of Genesis 2:7 - GOD'S SPIRIT IN MAN.

A Body is made up of elements of the Periodic Table, and if you think the Body still exists after it disintegrates and becomes incorporated in soil, plants, animal supper, etc. then I know a good therapist for you ;) I say that the Breath of God ceases to be part of Man at his death because Ecclesiastes 12:7 says so:

"Then shall the Dust (Body) return to the Earth as it was and the Spirit (Breath) shall return to God Who gave it."​

Yes, when Man's Body is given the Breath/Spirit of God, Man becomes a Living Soul - the Whole which is comprised of the two parts: Body and Breath/Spirit of God
No, because Man was not given a Soul - Man IS a Soul, according to Genesis 2:7.
I'm not sure if English is your first language, but you might wanna review Schoolhouse Rock's "Conjunction Junction". Conjunctions connect two or more words, phrases, or clauses in a sentence in order to show the relationship between them.

So, when you read the phrase "...of the soul and spirit" followed by the conjunction "and" followed by the phrase "...of the joints and marrow", the rules of English grammar clearly establish that a relationship between two different concepts is here displayed, and isn't a commentary on a singular concept, as you weakly suggest - for such a suggestion so butchers the English language that what is left resembles an alien autopsy. ;)
Please, either point to the post where I said that, or let it drop.
Of course you didn't which is why you believe in "eternal torment". I said it in order to open you eyes to the fact that you are confusing "result" with "process".
Yes, as long as people worship the Beast, they have no rest, day or night. There is no text which says the wicked will worship the Beast for eternity, but the Bible does say that the Beast will end up cast into the Lake of Fire along with the wicked and the worship of the Beast plus the resulting fatigue of the wicked who worship it will come to an end...when they are annihilated and cease to exist.
Since when is citing the meaning of a Greek word from a Lexicon for someone who is ignorant of that meaning "mental gymnastics"? An example of "mental gymnastics" is your butchering of Hebrews 4:12 to make two grammatically distinct concepts merge into one.
Good grief, you are impossible. The parable that directly precedes the Rich Man and Lazarus begins identically to it. Matthew plainly says Jesus would speak only in parables to the multitudes, which means the Rich Man and Lazarus was a parable, unless you think that Jesus was so naive as to give the Pharisees who heard Him speak about the Rich Man and Lazarus a private audience.
It's an "empty" explanation to claim that the reason Jesus used the name "Lazarus" was so the last words of the parable, "if they won't believe the Word of God, they won't believe though one rise from the dead" could be proven undeniably true in the lives of those Jews who were present when the real Lazarus rose from the dead, but went away in unbelief plotting to kill Him? Amazing what seems "empty" to those who are bent on making the Bible out to be what they want it to. I'd put my interpretation up against yours in the court of public opinion any day.
Its a parable that has nothing to do with eternal judgment. It's just one of many other warnings to the Jews of the fate Israel could have avoided if they'd repented of their unbelief.
LOL, so Abraham was several miles tall? Utter nonsense.
I just want one single text to support this equally nonsensical idea.
But the Rich Man said HIMSELF that he was tormented in flame! You're just making this up as you go, aren't you?
I'm reading in a parable where the righteous and wicked speak on to another, something that never occurs in all of Scripture.
The Bible indeed calls the one Saul spoke to "Samuel" but also calls it a "familiar spirit" (1 Chronicles 10:13) which is a demon impersonating dead folks. How could dead "Samuel":

• know things about Saul and the battle, when Solomon says the dead know not anything (Ecclesiastes 9:

Concerning your post #378

We do not agree. And only presenting part of what I said, to make it look like we do agree, is not....right.

Yes, man became a soul. But the body and the breath of God/spirit was involved. Thus, as I said before, the body is not the soul. The breath of God is not the soul. Thus there are three parts of man; the body, the spirit, and the soul. Are you saying man is only soul?

(Pro. 20:27) says " The spirit of man". Not soul. Not body. But the 'spirit of man'. It doesn't say the spirit of God in man. It says the spirit of man.

Concerning the 'body' I am speaking of man before the body dies. Man is body soul and spirit. If the body exists, then why doesn't the spirit, the breath of God exist? You want to say man is body and soul. Why? Why shouldn't the spirit exist as the body exists?

I guess you're talking now about (Heb. 12:4). I say. I guess, because as usual you don't give the verses. Why? Are you afraid someone will look them up and see how wrong you are? (Heb. 4:12) "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow....." Pretty simple english. Soul, and spirit, and body.

Why should I let it drop when that is what you are saying. God speaks of eternal punishment and torment. Yet you say no. Thus you are saying you know more than God about what kind of punishment should be dealt out. Quit asking me to quit saying it until you quit saying what you are saying. Your so called, 'result' and 'process' punishment is contrary to what the Bible says.

Concerning (Rev. 14:10-12), as I already pointed out, "...tormented with fire and brimestone" , "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever" Tormented is not death. Tormented is continual.

Doing gymanstics with the Greek doesn't change what (Rev. 14:10-11) says about 'forever'.

As I said concerning (Matt. 13:34), it is understood in light of (Matt. 13:11). When speaking of the kingdom of heaven in it's mystery form, Christ spoke to them in parables. He didn't always speak in parables after that. Jesus used the name 'Lazarus' because he was a real person, just as hades and torment were real for those experiencing it.

The place was called 'Abraham's bosom'. You want to laugh at God for naming it? Go ahead. Make fun.

Concerning the spiritual bodies of those in Hades, your are reading it in (Luke 16). Yet you don't believe it. Funny isn't it that when you reject part of Scripture you demand other Scripture somewhere. How many times must God say something for you to believe Him?

The torment section of Hades is not the Lake of Fire. No one is in the Lake of Fire at this time. That doesn't occur till the end of the millennium. But it is still torment as described in (Luke 16).

Again, Abraham and the rich man conversed. If you don't want to believe the Scripture, there is nothing I can do.

No, you are mistaken concerning Saul and Samuel. (1 Chron. 10:13) doesn't say Samuel was a familiar spirit. It says Saul died for seeking counsel of one who had a familiar spirit. Big difference. Samuel was Samuel.

Nothing is said in (Jude 1:9) that Moses was resurrected. It says Michael contended with satan over Moses body. And there is nothing said of Moses and Elijah having glorified bodies.

No, as I have already said, (Matt. 13:11) explains (Matt. 13:34). All you have to do is read, and you will see that Jesus didn't always speak in parables. Concerning the things of the mystery form of the kingdom, yes, He spoke in parables.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

Body + spirit = soul

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yeah, I get they are symbolic, never said they weren't, doesn't prove your point at all.

Well, it kinda does because scripture gives us proof that the body of Christ has been in gestation for 2,000 years.

Isa 53:11 - Jesus body in travail
Rom 8:22-25 - the body of Christ groans for their resurrected bodies
1 Cor 15:8 - Paul feels abnormally born without resurrected body
1 Cor 15:50-54/2 Cor 5:1-5 - Mortal/Immortal/Swallowed up
2 Cor 5:1-5 - the body of Christ groans for their resurrected bodies
Gal 4:19 - Paul relates travail in birth to not being formed yet

No, the church was not birthed 2,000 years ago, but Jesus Christ was the one birthed out of Israel, the woman.

Dcopy, Jesus didn't need to be obtained by robbery in His ascension, He had already defeated Satan. The church however does need to be obtained by robbery. Scripture plainly states that Jesus comes like a thief to the world through rapture.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief

Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

God bless

 

[LC627]

That's all good.
But how about exegeting the verse I gave you?
Again...

Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

What does "IF indeed you continue in the faith" .mean or what does it refer to?
Paul is saying you perhaps may not continue in the faith...

I see no issue with the word "if" in this verse. To me I don't view it as a factor of losing salvation. Like I've mentioned, Even though I believe God keeps me I have to be accountable for my faith and what I do. I believe those who are called will continue. I've hit a rough patch before in my faith, tried running from God, pushing Him to side, but I still felt His presence and Him desiring for me to repent.

 

[LC627]

I know you have to believe that God saved you with absolutely no input from you or He would just completely lose His sovereignty, but names that are written in the book of Life can also be blotted out. I gave you two scriptures.

You can only blot out something that was written in the first place.
Could you show me where it says they could Not be blotted out?

If I was dead in sin then how could I raise myself up to life to exercise faith? If God did not convict me I'd still be dead in sin. Let me ask you this: If God did not work on the hearts of man, how many Christians would there be in the world? None. No one would repent. We are all equally dead so what makes you different than those who do not repent?

2 Timothy 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

All of those that the Father has given to Jesus will not be lost (John 6:39)
Everyone born of God overcomes the world (1 John 5:4)
We are sealed for the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30)
And finally, as I've mentioned before, A true born again Christian does not make the practice of living a sinful life. You and I can throw our verses at each other all day long and I doubt we will budge, lol. It all comes back to how you view mans condition. I see man as the Bible says: Evil, enslaved to sin, dead in trespasses, and enemies of God. There is nothing good in man or anything that desires submission to God unless convicted. Goodness, we made it 6 chapters (that's page #7 in my Bible) in the Bible before God could not stand the wickedness of man any longer and warned Noah He was going to flood the earth.

You believe in eternal security, it is just on the basis of your performance.
You do everything right and you'll be alright.

I believe fully in God's power and the work Jesus did on the cross.
I couldn't save myself so how can I maintain salvation myself?

 

[Enoch111]

Body + spirit = soul

According to Scripture:

spirit + soul + body = person (1 Thess 5:23)

and spirit + soul = inner person (Heb 4:12)

 

[aspen]

According to Scripture:

spirit + soul + body = person (1 Thess 5:23)

and spirit + soul = inner person (Heb 4:12)

1 thess 5:23 does not have pluses our equal signs nor does it sum up spirit, soul, body as a person. Soul according to Plato means spirit.....Soul according to Jewish thought means spirit plus body

 

[GodsGrace]

Body + spirit = soul

Aspen,
The Catholic church believes in the trichotomy of man.
Man has three parts:
Body
Soul
Spirit

Check this out with your priest or somebody that knows. Not all priests remember their theology...

This is what the CC believes:

 

[GodsGrace]

1 thess 5:23 does not have pluses our equal signs nor does it sum up spirit, soul, body as a person. Soul according to Plato means spirit.....Soul according to Jewish thought means spirit plus body

You're not following Plato.
And we understand a lot more about the body and soul today than hundreds of years ago. Also, The body and soul do NOT make up the spirit because only born again believers have a spirit which is connected to God. Non-believers do not have a spirit, or some will say they do but that it's dormant. In any case, it's not functional.

I only think this is important because it helps us to understand ourselves a lot more.

 

[GodsGrace]

I see no issue with the word "if" in this verse. To me I don't view it as a factor of losing salvation. Like I've mentioned, Even though I believe God keeps me I have to be accountable for my faith and what I do. I believe those who are called will continue. I've hit a rough patch before in my faith, tried running from God, pushing Him to side, but I still felt His presence and Him desiring for me to repent.

LC!
IF is a VERY BIG WORD!!

IF changes everything!
But, believe what you will, as long as you believe I guess.
I do wish you'd come to know the real God of the bible, but your decision.

YES. You're decision. You DO have free will. Try reading the bible again with this in mind and you'll see it all over. I've listed many verses and won't go into this again.

As to Him looking for you...Jesus is our good shepherd, He always comes looking for us.
Mathew 18:12

 

[GodsGrace]

If I was dead in sin then how could I raise myself up to life to exercise faith? If God did not convict me I'd still be dead in sin. Let me ask you this: If God did not work on the hearts of man, how many Christians would there be in the world? None. No one would repent. We are all equally dead so what makes you different than those who do not repent?

2 Timothy 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life-not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

All of those that the Father has given to Jesus will not be lost (John 6:39)
Everyone born of God overcomes the world (1 John 5:4)
We are sealed for the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30)
And finally, as I've mentioned before, A true born again Christian does not make the practice of living a sinful life. You and I can throw our verses at each other all day long and I doubt we will budge, lol. It all comes back to how you view mans condition. I see man as the Bible says: Evil, enslaved to sin, dead in trespasses, and enemies of God. There is nothing good in man or anything that desires submission to God unless convicted. Goodness, we made it 6 chapters (that's page #7 in my Bible) in the Bible before God could not stand the wickedness of man any longer and warned Noah He was going to flood the earth.

You believe in eternal security, it is just on the basis of your performance.
You do everything right and you'll be alright.

I believe fully in God's power and the work Jesus did on the cross.
I couldn't save myself so how can I maintain salvation myself?

If salvation were based on our performance, we'd all go to the hot place.
Later. Company for lunch. I want to write re the condition of man.
We are depraved, but not totally depraved as you believe...

 

[Stranger]

Everything you've said is correct and accepted theology by the mainstream.

I just would like to add that the verses the other posts speaks about regarding the dead knowing nothing; their emotions are perished; etc... go back to the O.T.
Some in the O.T. times did not believe in life after death, for example neither did the Sadducees.

Yes, they come from the book of (Ecclesiastes). And explanation of them is quite simple, which is why the location of the verses was probably not given. (Ecc. 9:4-6) "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

The key is the last statement. 'anything that is done under the sun'. Solomon is viewing the emptiness of life when seen only under the sun. All is vanity. And so he who had riches, and women, and wisdom, turned away from God. And in his later years sees how empty everything under the sun is.

The point being the verses in (9:4-6) do not teach there is no resurrection, and they do not teach that when you die you are in some sort of 'soul sleep' till a resurrection. They teach that without God, everything under the sun in this life is vanity. Empty.

"Under the sun" is the key.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, they come from the book of (Ecclesiastes). And explanation of them is quite simple, which is why the location of the verses was probably not given. (Ecc. 9:4-6) "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

The key is the last statement. 'anything that is done under the sun'. Solomon is viewing the emptiness of life when seen only under the sun. All is vanity. And so he who had riches, and women, and wisdom, turned away from God. And in his later years sees how empty everything under the sun is.

The point being the verses in (9:4-6) do not teach there is no resurrection, and they do not teach that when you die you are in some sort of 'soul sleep' till a resurrection. They teach that without God, everything under the sun in this life is vanity. Empty.

"Under the sun" is the key.

Stranger

Yes. Under the sun could also mean doing the things that the living do. The dead no longer do the things the living do.

I also do not believe in soul sleep. We're either alive always, or we die completely.
Jesus made it clear that we go to heaven at death...Paul also spoke to this.
No time for verses now, but we all know them...

And I like... "God is a God of the living"...