Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
You already give me a "charge" with each of your responses.
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Blotted out of The Book Of Life?
- Thread starter Nancy
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Elementary! OKAY I will rephrase and say "guess" instead. I am guessing you have already (yourself) pretended GG is someone else...just like we see you in your Avatar! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :)
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about?
That's me.
Just cuz I look like the greatest lover in the world.........
You are laughing allot today-you smoking wacky tobacci?
kk I must eat something...nothing but coffee today! See ya'll later ♥
"That's me." Uh huh-and so is mine me! hahahaha!
Well ya left that one wide open! Lol...so, I'll finish it for you
"Just cuz I look like the greatest lover in the world.........doesn't mean that I am......... snickers hehehe
And because it is once, you don't bring it again. As they did with the animal sacrifices. You don't get to get out of salvation and then decide I want back in. It's a one time deal. 'Once'. If you want to believe you can lose your salvation, fine. But don't try and get back in or preach that you can get back in.
I don't know how you deal with the believer's born-again spirit. Because it has to die, if he loses his salvation. And once it dies there is no recovery doctrine offered in the Scriptures for it. We are born-again...not over and over and over again.
Stranger
The O.T. is full of verses that speak about returning to God.
The people of Israel had been scattered throughout Babylonia and some of them had married outside their religion and had accepted different gods. So they are asked to RETURN to the one true God.
Hosea 14:1
Nehemia 1:9
Jerehmiah 24:7
and many more...
Also, I bring your attention to the Prodigal Son.
Luke 15:20
20“So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. "
Jesus is telling this parable. Are you saying Jesus didn't mean what He was saying? The Son had left the Father, and was returning to him.
Also, please see 1 Corinthians 5:1-2
Paul is writing about a man who practiced some immorality. He wants him removed from the body and given over to satan.
In 2 Corinthians 2:5-11 Paul asks that church to accept the man back into the body and to forgive him as also Paul forgives him.
Did Paul not know what he was doing?
God will ALWAYS accept us back as long as we are sorry for having left Him.
The only sin that could not be forgiven is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
God calling for Israel to return to God does not mean those who were believers had lost their salvation and are now trying to get saved again. It means they turned away from God and are suffering a judgement from God and can repent and return. As I have said before, backsliding is not losing ones salvation.
I explained the Prodigal Son in post #70. You never responded to that.
(2 Cor. 2:5-11) is serious indeed. But it is not a loss of salvation. Jesus turned Peter over to satan also. (Lu. 22:31) "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold,Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee,that thy faith fail not:..."
Yes, God accepts the backsliding believer back. But you are talking about a believer who has lost their salvation. And there is no Scripture that gives the details how to get re-saved. There is no Scripture that tells how the born-again spirit dies and then is re-born again.
Stranger
Stranger...
Serving a different God is backsliding!
It's commandment number ONE.
Nothing is loss of salvation to you. No wonder you believe in this so much...you feel there is no way back.
Luke 22:31 has nothing to do with this discussion.
Peter was afraid. Jesus prayed for him and was not upset with him...He knew Peter would "turn back". That's not the same as serving a different god.
As to post 70, I'll look at it when I return later.
Hi Nancy,Fun things to think about. <----I know!
By Moses statement it does look as if everyone get put IN the Book, at birth, and blotted out when choices to follow God or not , are presented to them. <---this had never crossed my mind until this thread, VERY interesting.
Obviously on many things we are solid on and we have them as foundations of our faith.<---Yes, pure Gospel-He died, was buried, rose again the third day-for the sins of ALL mankind.
God is always speaking and He is always peeling of a skin and showing a new or deeper revelation of something if we are teachable.
Those that already know everything seem quite closed to any other inspiration of any verse or chapter etc. <---These folk, IMO really try to limit God Almighty...I believe we will be learning right into eternity an He will never be fully knowable---JMO :)
After all...this is The Almighty God trying to come down to the level of an ant and smaller...trying to communicate spiritual thing to us worms of humanity.<---EARS to hear EYES to see and the humility to soften those stiff necked no-it-alls. I am sure most do believe passionately what they believe but, do they still have a teachable spirit?
How on earth do people think that 'they know' just how everything at the end is going to be. It is, like it or not...a wait and see..
my dollars worth
Good stuff!!!!!
2 things:
1) To be blotted out of anything, doesn't one have to be there in the first place? Logically, it demolishes OSAS.
2) is your avatar St. Joan of Arc?
4 minutes
Israel served a different God when Aaron made the golden calf also. Did they go in and out of salvation there.
The Old Testament Scripture you use is viewing Israel as a whole body in the verses you describe. The nation is following God or the nation is turning away from God. If you want to view loss of salvation on the national level, then Israel never loses her salvation either. Because God will always be true to His purpose for Israel. She can turn away from God and be under judgement as she is now, but she is still seen by God as a saved nation and will be brought to her eternal purpose eventually.
But we are talking about individuals salvation. Thus not every individual in Israel is saved as they did not have the faith of their father Abraham. But to the ones that have that faith, even as the nation goes into judgement they are still saved.
Well, that is correct. I do not believe you can lose your salvation. Thus there is no 'way back'. You may lose your way at times, and need to come back. But you do not lose your salvation.
If (Luke 22:31) has nothing to do with the discussion then neither does (2 Cor. 2:5-11).
Be sure to tell me how one becomes un-born-again. Does his spirit die? It must. How is it born-again- and -again. Where is the Scripture for that?
Stranger
1) To be blotted out of anything, doesn't one have to be there in the first place? Logically, it demolishes OSAS.<---Does make sense to our logic, yes.
2) is your avatar St. Joan of Arc? <--- Lol, no...She is the prayer warrior I strive to be :)
Phoneman777
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epostle1 is 100% correct because the conclusion is based on Scripture. There is no reconciliation. A person can walk away from his/her covenant with Jesus just as surely as a spouse can walk away from a marriage."Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."
“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels” (Rev. 3:5).
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book” (Rev. 22:19).
Again I find myself questioning my view. Yes Rollo, wishy washy nancy just cannot make up her mind! Thought I'd save you that barb...lol
How does one reconcile the above verses to OSAS? I DO believe that if one has true saving grace, they will NOT walk away, or falter. So, if we are saved, how can one be blotted out of this magnificent book of Life? Can we become unsaved...I hate this stupid fence I find myself on allot lately:
Now, all those husbands and wives out there who are frozen with fear that they will walk away from their loved one with whom they've committed to stay "in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, for better or worse, 'til death do us part", please raise you hand.
It's about love. And keeping God's commandments, or not, proves whether you truly love Him...just like your faithfulness to your spouse proves the same.
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It's about love and keeping God's commandments you say. Did you love God and Christ when you first got saved? Be honest now. Did you love Him who you did not know. We like to throw that word 'love' around pretty freely.
I have never seen where the wife is required to love her husband. God does require the man to love his wife though.
We don't love our way into salvation. We learn to love God and Christ the more we get to know Him. Our salvation is established only on our faith in Jesus Christ.
Stranger
Helen
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Great post. It gave me pause to reconsider. I reluctantly have to agree :)
...We do learn to slowly love God more and more as we walk with Him in deeper union.
Love is not instant or fully mature at the beginning.
But whatever ...I do know that the threat of hell did not draw me to God in some kind of escape...it was a longing for the peace of knowing that I would be with Him. I couldn't stand the thought of no-God at the end of life.
I asked Him to show me how I could have that assurance...I was 22 and had my life ahead of me.
Thanks....H
Phoneman777
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No, my motive at first was to escape "eternal torment" - but I was never able to "love" a God that would do that - until I learned the truth from Scripture that "eternal torment" is not the fate of the wicked - for if the wages of sin is "eternal torment" the only way that Jesus could have taken our punishment is that HE be eternally tormented. Atheists say the number one reason for why they hate God is that "he's a monster that burns people for all eternity in hellfire."
Helen
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The wages of sin is death. Death is separation. Physical death is separation from the body. Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God. Thus one can be alive physically but spiritually dead. Jesus suffered a 'spiritual' death as no other human could experience as He was God the Son always with the Father. When the sins of the world were laid on Him He was then forsaken of the Father. The Father removed Himself from Him due to Sin being placed upon Him. Which is why He cried out "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken Me."
And, understand that the Sons willingness to become a Man, and be the Sacrifice of God for the sin of the world, means there was now a difference in the Godhead, in that the Son would forever be a man. It was not just He will be a Man for a little while. The Son will be a Man forever and ever.
As the Son, Jesus did not die as a non-believer. He died as the Man of God, who bore our sin. He died as one in total fellowship with God. He was made guilty of our sin, but did not die as a non-believer.
Hell or the Lake of Fire is just a place. The wages of sin is death, separation. The one who dies spiritually dead does not go to heaven which is the place for the believers of God. The spiritually dead's place is the lake of fire. Eternal death or separation is the wages of sin. But those who die eternally separated must have a place to go. And that place is the same place prepared for the devil and his angels.
Atheist's say a lot of lies and things as to their excuse for not seeking God. The truth is they hate God, and their disapproval of eternal torment is an excuse they believe postures them as moral individuals to good to hurt anything or anyone. And, it is my opinion, that they hope it is good enough excuse to give if and when they do stand before God, for God to pity them in their moral goodness. But, He won't.
Don't develop your doctrine by what atheist's believe. Develop your doctrine by what the Bible says. When talking to atheists you have to be willing to continually say, 'that is what the Bible says, and that is what I believe'. 'It is written'. Because they will laugh and mock you for doing such, but you just keep it up. 'That is what it says, and this is what I believe'.
Stranger
Everyone is an individual, and many are the ways God brings one to Himself. The Spirit of God works on our Spirit making us restless until we find the Saviour.
Let's say God never revealed in the Scripture the place where the unbelievers go was the lake of fire. Let's say He just told us there is a place for the unbelievers. And He said, it is a place where I will not be. I close my hears to it. I close my eyes to it. To me, that would be hell itself, to be in a place where God would not hear you, or see you. Spiritually dead.
Stranger
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